Fear of player being poached?

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I had a conversation this summer with a travel ball coach who was trying to set up friendlies with a certain top notch Team with the idea of inviting college coaches who had interest in watching Players A bat off Pitcher B (opposing teams, hence the friendly) This coach told me that the College Coach thought it was a great idea and encouraged travel ball coach to set it up and the coach thought he could get other college coaches to attend as well.

Dilemma: team refused to do it and coach speculated it was because he was afraid the coach was trying to poach his players!!!

Now this past weekend, I heard the same thing again, this time with different organizations involved, team A wont scrimmage team B because team A might poach team B's players. I also heard that team B won't pitch their top pitcher against certain well known teams because they don't want that pitcher to be poached!!!

I have my own thoughts- Do what's best for your players especially if the friendly offers them exposure. If a kid leaves for "greener pastures" oh well, move on, it's all part of the game, a game in which their is little loyalty.

I invite the forum to share their thoughts.

 

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Vikingsix- please feel free to tell this other team to get in contact with me - we'll be happy to do those friendlies!

 

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This is funny.

I feel like this whole topic has been beaten to death. And then someone finds a whole new angle to approach the subject.

The whole point of 10U-14U is to develop your players to be able to compete and excel at 16U & 18U so they can get a college scholly. You do not play travel sports for a leisure activity. So with that in mind, why would this whole player jumping thing be a concern. If you are doing your job as a coach and developing your players and pushing them against the best out there why would you have anything to worry about?

Where the rub happens is that there is only so many "elite" players. And there then can only be so many elite teams. And once peoples egos become involved they lose perspective of the goals. Every coach can not have an "elite" team. And if the have a couple elite players on there team then they should probably realize that those players would be better served moving to an elite team/program. Instead coaches fight like mad to hold onto 2-3 elite players and try to "build" and elite team around these players. It rarely works. The reasons are so many it is hardly worth the effort to list them all. And what happens is the coach burns up all his/her energy trying to lift the team and org up to this elite level (along with parents) and in the end rarely gets anywhere but exhausted and frustrated. I should know I did it for 6 years.

And the fact is this. There are only so many elite pitchers....period. So the number of "potential" elite teams is limited to the number of these pitchers. Couple that with the fact that the limited number of elite pitchers are rarely surround logistically by a bunch of elite players (hitters and such) that the only way to have elite teams in most States outside of the West Coast is to have destination programs (Lasers, Bandits....ect). These programs are of course actively scouting and pursuing these players to keep the already up and running machine going.

This is not a horrible thing. Parents and players alike should be thankful destination orgs exist and also that they scout. Because a stud player who plays all B tournaments (and is winning) might never realize that these other orgs exist since they never play them.

If you have a stud pitcher and a bunch of B players. But you are winning middle of the road tournaments. Aren't you really screwing that pitcher? Instead you are worried about "winning" but that pitcher is not progressing. Big difference pitching against teams that she strikes out half the team, and pitching against a whole team that is she leaves it over the plate it could be parked. I see this problem often. Same with hitters. Until a players is forced to be focused and perform at her highest all the time she is not going typically be able to push herself there without the competition forcing her to perform at her highest potential to succeed.

 

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Very true spartansd

 

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Excellent post Spartansd. Two thumbs up.

 

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So what are the players supposed to do when they don't make the elite teams Lasers etc,give up? Not a chance,find the best coaching and ensure the coach is only accepting the best players,result should be satisfactory to parents and players,Go out and knock off those elite teams.Lot of talent in OHIO we could put together 6 elite teams if it wasn't so deluted.

 

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We are extremely fortunate. My DD was asked to sub (she's a pitcher) for another team a couple weeks ago. I told that coach that he needed to ask our coach so that there were no misunderstandings. DD's coach said "Absolutely!" More circle time for her makes a better pitcher for him. And he told me that he is secure enough in his coaching that he doesn't worry about my DD leaving. If she chooses to leave, then he is doing something wrong. His thoughts are, as long as our team has nothing going on, DD is free to sub as long as it doesn't affect our roster. Love it.

 

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When my DD was playing, everyone in travel ball that we associated with knew who the elite teams were. Certain name-brand organizations were known to have scant off season practices. They operated with the mindset that if you, as a player, had a burning desire to achieve, you would "work on your own" and seek out top level instruction. Then, all these players were expected to show up at games ready to compete at the highest level. Provided enough team practices were held to work out logistics, coverages, etc., I actually liked that concept.

Playing the Devil's advocate here:
So let's say it's a given that the laws of nature dictate that top level players will eventually migrate to the elite teams - no matter HOW hard a "lower level" coach resists. That being the case, how do these "lower" teams strive to become "elite" teams? Did the elite teams (that don't do player development) actually DO player development at one time? Did they reach a point where it was no longer needed because of the automatic influx of elite "ready-made" talent? At what point do you say to yourself as a coach "We can stop doing player development now, because all we need to do is "poach" players".

How did the elite teams get there? Did they NEVER do player development withing a system, or has recruiting pre-developed talent always been their main focus? Inquiring minds want to know... I have my own ideas, but I would like to hear other's thoughts.

 

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Your players will be with you because they want to be with you. If some are susceptible to poaching, they're going to leave eventually anyhow, regardless of how much you try to hide them from the evil poachers. Don't worry about it - be concerned only with what you can control.

 

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To avoid scrimmaging good teams due to the fear of poaching is rediculous and will only hurt your players. Getting your girls seen and making them be the best players they can be are the main objectives so to me it would be a bad move to not take the scrimmage. Players are going to leave regardless of what you do so dictating your schedule around avoiding poachers is useless and damaging to the entire team. Coaches who pass on great opportunities for their girls because of personal insecurities will lose players for that very reason.

 

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To me this is a cover story for lack of confidence in his team or his coaching.

 

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When did this game go from: For The Kids To For The Ego's Of Coaches! If a coach does the right thing by the players and the parents, then there should be no worries. If the player then leaves for "greener pastures", then so be it and wish her the best. At the end of the day, it's always about these young ladies playing college ball reguardless who her travel coach is. JMHO!

 

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Playing the Devil's advocate here:
So let's say it's a given that the laws of nature dictate that top level players will eventually migrate to the elite teams - no matter HOW hard a "lower level" coach resists. That being the case, how do these "lower" teams strive to become "elite" teams?
They have to find diamond-in-the-rough players that they can develop into strong players and teach the team to do all the little things that win games.

Did the elite teams (that don't do player development) actually DO player development at one time? Did they reach a point where it was no longer needed because of the automatic influx of elite "ready-made" talent?
Yes, they developed a team that established them as an elite coach. However, I don't really accept your premise because there are different levels of player development. Players that were good hitters, fielders and/or pitchers before joining an elite team should develop in more advanced ways after joining it.

At what point do you say to yourself as a coach "We can stop doing player development now, because all we need to do is "poach" players".
- When you put all the blame for the team's lack of success on the players.
- When you're burned out and/or unsuccessful developing elite players.
- When you're ready to stop being an elite team.

My responses are based on what happens here, so they may differ from what happens back there.

True elite teams don't poach (i.e. recruit specific players from other teams during the season) - they typically make roster changes between seasons. Midseason changes usually happen from within the organization or from a player approaching them.

 

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My responses are based on what happens here, so they may differ from what happens back there.

True elite teams don't poach (i.e. recruit specific players from other teams during the season) - they typically make roster changes between seasons. Midseason changes usually happen from within the organization or from a player approaching them.

The section in my post under "Devils advocate" are just hypothetical questions based on what I have read over the years on this forum. I don't buy in to the premise that players just reach a point in development and - bingo - they are great players ready for college! Quite the contrary - development is an ongoing process. This was a very important part of team choice for my DD. While individual development is a very important, a coaching philosophy must also be in place that supports, and demands excellence and hard work. This is very similar to the concept you like to see (but does not always exist) in a college team environment. You're good when you arrive, but there is always room for improvement.

IMO, "poaching" is really a no-contest issue. As has been said, if a coach is doing a great service for the girls, there is NO reason for them to leave.

 

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If a coach is so great why would he/she have to poach player's. They all should just show up at the tryout.

 

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This is rather long but please bear with me.

During my career in Army Aviation, I was assigned to the 101[SUP]st[/SUP] Airborne Division at Ft. Campbell, KY for 13 years. Also stationed at Ft. Campbell is the 160[SUP]th[/SUP] Special Operations Aviation Regiment. The 160[SUP]th[/SUP] SOAR is considered the "best of the best" by a lot of army aviators. It is an elite unit.

To get into the 160[SUP]th[/SUP], an aviator had to apply and then get a "try-out". The best way for the young "Top Guns" to get accepted was to first get assigned to the 101[SUP]st [/SUP]and get some experience in tactical aviation.

I was an instructor pilot (coach) and we would get new guys assigned to us. We would train them to a high standard in conducting our mission. As a unit, we would be clicking. Then, about 18 months to 2 years after arriving, they would leave to go to the 160[SUP]th[/SUP] (elite team).

Our unit was also an elite unit for the mission that we were required to perform. But the 160[SUP]th[/SUP] is more elite. I wasn't upset at all at losing pilots to the more elite unit. I trained (coached) pilots to be the best that they could be with the assets that I was given. Our unit had a more restricted budget and to be honest, some nice equipment but not the most recent state-of-the-art equipment.

The 160[SUP]th[/SUP] gets more money and with that money they get better toys (equipment) to further the development of pilots. Their instructors were able to start their training where I left off and didn't have to waste time re-training pilots.

I had many opportunities to go to the 160[SUP]th[/SUP]. I was continually ask by some of the 160[SUP]th[/SUP] instructors whom I had gone to flight school with, was assigned to other units with them prior to them going to the 160[SUP]th[/SUP], and to this day, very dear friends with, to cross-over. However, I declined. Yeah, it looked enticing but at this point in my career, I opted not to go. The fact was, I enjoyed training (coaching) the younger pilots. I just looked at it like this was part of the job of our unit. In the end, it helps in the bigger picture in the defense of our country.

Now Army Aviation is not the same of travel ball. But the above process is very similar; however lives are not on the line.

In travel ball, I see a lot of coaches that want to be elite; however, they do not possess the budget, the equipment, or the means (coaching skills) to get good travel ball players to the elite level. What type of coach are you? Do you really like to get into developing players? Do you have what it takes to get kids to the next level?

 

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like poaching doesn't occur year round. Sounds like those teams need to let go and not worry or step and make it impossible to go elsewhere.

 

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Poaching. What is poaching? I have never heard of that, just happens so often I am immune to it I guess. If coach does their job the players will stay and the parents will sit back and enjoy but then again some think their young one is better than the rest and will try anything to break the coach. I truly mean anything. It was and still is funny today. It is ashame they cannot put a name with their actions though. Cracks me up. I call that chicken sh!t. A whole bunch of sissy's!!!