Fielding styles: Candrea vs. Kobata

[FastBat]

I went to a Kobata fielding session last Monday night, with Howard Kobata. It was a real treat, it reaffirmed my passion for his fielding style. My dd has had weekly Kobata style fielding lessons for 18 months, I fear I'm becoming slightly biased. After a few days of thinking, I'm trying to figure out the basic differences between Candrea and Kobata?

This is what I think to be true about the differences.

Situation: fielding a two bounce grounder, hit to short stop, ss would field it by...

Kobata: 1. Running up or "charging" the ball. 2. Short stop cleanly scoops ball on glove side, inside of foot, out in front of glove foot. 3. While transferring ball to throwing point, while FEET TAKE A TRANSFER STEP. 4. Throw, pulling throwing hand back based on distance to first, and taking a throwing step with feet.

Candrea: 1. Running up or "charging" the ball. 2. Short stop cleanly scoops ball on glove side, inside of foot, out in front of glove foot. 3. While transferring ball to throwing point, while FEET DO NOT TAKE A TRANSFER STEP. 4. Throw, pulling throwing hand back based on distance to first, and taking a throwing step with feet.

Are there any other basic differences I'm missing? Is there anyone who is completely impressed with Candrea/Kobata fielding style that could go into advantages/disadvantages to each?

I just want to make sure I'm on the right track and not wasting money by taking my dd to Kobata style fielding lessons? Would it be "a good thing" to see a player, at 12u-18u, using Kobata style?

 

[spartansd]

I will say that 0.3 of a second equates to about 10 mph on your throw at 80 feet.

So while you seem to think there is a bunch of difference, I see almost no difference. A step verses no step? Regardless of what you teach your DD her college coach will advise her of the "proper way". And BTW if she is a SS you can expect her to play CF anyway. So you are probably fretting over nothing.

 

[FastBat]

I'm just wanting to know differences. Yes, it may be "fretting" about nothing, but this is a softball forum, and I think the majority of us are softball "junkies". I'm actually just trying to get a healthy discussion going about this, I know it's minor, but I would really like to hear thoughts and opinions! Thanks!

 

[okiedad1961]

Was at session w Kobata last night,as long as the tranfer step is toward the intended target it's faster,shorter throw and moving toward target = faster.Enjoyed the toughness on the girls and his explantion of why he's that way.

 

[alborules]

I will say that 0.3 of a second equates to about 10 mph on your throw at 80 feet.

So while you seem to think there is a bunch of difference, I see almost no difference. A step verses no step? Regardless of what you teach your DD her college coach will advise her of the "proper way". And BTW if she is a SS you can expect her to play CF anyway. So you are probably fretting over nothing.

On a slow to medium grounder with a speedy runner and/or trying to turn a double play, Kobata techniques are far superior than any other. It is also worth noting that the Kobata technique can turn less than stellar arm strength into into sufficient arm strength to play SS and 3rd base.

 

[wow]

Been to both and they are really the same principles. I think Kobota is about speed and efficiency; so is Candrea, Don't see the step no step as a "absolute"

The major difference is how Kobota just RIDES the kids on the fundamentals. Not everyone is open to his toughness. You will love him or hate him!

 

[spartansd]

I was being a bit sarcastic BTW.

Totally disagree about Kobata being any or much faster than what most teach. Charge the ball.....pay attention to your footwork......work towards 1st base......throw the ball.

What I think is that he breaks it down into a much more clear set of steps. So it allows you to really find the areas of most opportunity to allow you to get the ball to the base. I like his classes.

 

[Coach E.]

Howard told me a story about a younger girl he had been working with for a few years going up against a girl from the University of Arizona. Even though the older girl could throw with more power the younger girls ball always reached her target sooner because the older girl was toooo slowwww. The older player would always field the ball off her back foot with her shoulders at an angle while the younger player fielded the ball out front with square shoulders enabling her to get the ball and get rid of it before the older girl had her ball in throwing position. That I think would be the difference in the two styles.

 

[okiedad1961]

As Howard stated ,even the ladies that have had Howards style for a while can find room for improvement ,He directly told my dd ,her weight distribution was too much toward her back foot during the completion of the throw,and told her don't think since she has a strong arm she could get away with having poor form. Recorded him saying some of his classic quotes to use as ring tone for my dd..

 

[Dawgsdad]

Are there ever camps around ohio?

 

[FastBat]

The older player would always field the ball off her back foot with her shoulders at an angle while the younger player fielded the ball out front with square shoulders enabling her to get the ball and get rid of it before the older girl had her ball in throwing position. That I think would be the difference in the two styles.

I was going to add that but thought it would be too complicated, great point! Besides fielding it in front, when I see a kid angled I think, "great coverage for the side the fielder is facing, I want to hit it to the side the fielder isn't facing". Also, angled girls always look like they are throwing off the heels of their feet, results are "toooo slooooow"!

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Are there ever camps around ohio?

Ya, $400 dollars for a 2 hour practice. (team rate) what a bargain! :/

 

[Uber_jones]

Wizards in NWO holds a Kobata clinic every year, this year he's coming last 10/30-11/5. think it's $75 for non wizard players for 2 sessions. This is like his 5th or 6th straight year visiting the Wizards, I got to go to dinner with him last year. He's a completely different guy off the field, he's just flat out one of the best instructors in the business.

If interested check out http://fastsoftball.org if interested.

 

[Dawgsdad]

Thanks guys. I guess I should've also added sw ohio. Nwo is quite far from cincy. How do you make contact about a team clinic? That doesn't sound bad at all!

 

[FastBat]

He's in NEO in December too, but I think his team clinics are completely filled. My dd got in b/c another team allowed her to participate with them, cost $40 and worth it!

If you ever get a chance to see him in action, you should go! Also, bring a video camera, you won't remember it all.

 

[KetteringFP]

Are there ever camps around ohio?

http://www.thesoftballzone.com/showthread.php?5068-Howard-Kobata-Is-Coming-to-North-East-Ohio

 

[Rosebud]

Sorry, but I could not post until recently. I just need to add my 2 cents worth on this topic. Candreas "style" is just the defensive style that has been used for many many years in this game. He organized it and made several videos but he did not invent the way the game is played. No offense to him, he did a great job of organizing what was there. Kobatas method is his own. He has taken many defensive taboos and said if you practice them you can use them. Ex: throwing on run, throwing off wrong foot, etc. he has speeded up a defensive game to match the faster offensive game.

SW Ohio doesn't take the defensive game as serious as NW Ohio and that is where NW Ohio is pulling away from the SW. teams.

Learning defense properly will will help keep your daughter safer on the field. It creat

 

[Rosebud]

Got cut off and lost rest of my reply. Bummer. Ok. To make a long story short..... College coaches can tell if a player has been trained well in just 5 minutes. They don't overlook defense. Unless you are a pitcher throwing 65 plus and can field within reason. The rest need to be great hitters and have very good fielding skills or great speed.

 

[Uber_jones]

Really good post Rosebud, I'm obviously in-line with your thinking.

 

[Rosebud]

Thanks Uber. I didn't finish my original post last night but I will try now. Learning good defensive skills will help protect your daughter on the field due to learning the correct movement patterns which will in turn lead to the confidence level in your daughter. Learning these patterns will make your daughter a more instinctive mode where she doesn't have to think about what she needs to do on her way to fielding the ball. That would be a reactionary player. Instincts will increase the speed of the player because her body will take over the movement before thinking will even kick in. This added quickness will protect the player in a lot of dangerous situations.

Kobata is a "teacher". A teacher is someone who can teach you how to move your hand correctly for a throw, move your foot correctly in a fielding movement, turn your body correctly, and on and on. If your coach is not doing this at practices, then he/she is not a teacher of the game. You need to find a good teacher of defense as you have found a good hitting teacher and pitching teacher. A good teacher needs to be able to tell you "why" you do something a certain way and your skills improve when you do what they tell you to do. That's a teacher. That's someone who has a real knowledge of the game and can pass these things along to young players. Many coaches can do this, many more cannot. If you have a coach that are not teaching movement patterns you need to find someone who can teach these skills properly. No different than hitting or pitching instructors. Why do you people go to Kobata in droves. They know. They know and can see improvements with their daughters.