First base ruling, Bretman? Or anyone?

[lewam3]

Grounder to the first baseman. Hits glove in fair and bounces to her left. She retrieves it and steps on the orange safety bag well ahead of the runner who then steps on the white bag. Runner safe? Or runner out?

 

[frenchy101010]

My guess is runner is safe.

 

[JCellar17]

I'm gonna say runner is out. I believe there is a rule that allows the fielder to use the safety bag, not sure of the rule though.

 

[DOKelm3]

Out, the safety bag is first base, I mean common sense, do you call the runner out for not stepping on the white bag?

 

[Coachemup]

This is copied and pasted directly from the NSA rulebook.

1st base double base – At facilities that use the white and orange double
bag at 1st base, the following rules will be implemented. If the first play
is at 1st base, either from the infield or outfield, a batter/runner will be
called out for touching the inside base. If the play is elsewhere, the
inside base may be tagged in a continuation or possible continuation
toward 2nd base. The batter/ runner running toward 1st base may cross
over to the inside bag to avoid a collision if a wild throw occurs. The
fielder may tag the outside of the bag to record the out in this situation.
This is only permissible on the initial play at 1st base. If a batter/ runner
on the first play at 1st base touches “ANY” part of the orange bag, that
runner is considered to have touched the bag legally. If the runner
touches “ANY” part of the white bag in a continuation or possible
continuation to 2nd base, the runner is considered to have touched the
bag legally.
*NOTE: Once the batter – baserunner becomes a baserunner, the
double base becomes one bag.

It would seem that a ball that bounces off of the fielder and into foul territory where she retrieves it would be similar to a wild throw that would pull her off of the bag. In this case, according to the rule, the fielder is allowed to tag the outside (orange portion) of the bag. The runner is also allowed to touch the inside (white portion) in order to avoid the collision.

 

[lewam3]

Runner was ruled safe. Explanation was that the fielder needed to step on the white bag to record the out. This was at 16u ASA Nationals yesterday.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

I'd go with it she would be out as well due to the "crossed path of runner/fielder" during progression of play.....that's how I read rule too....once you cross and runner is runner either bag for safety purposes. Just kill the rule and always use it as one big base.....the rule people make things too complicated. Heck when we were kids if we threw the wiffle ball over bag area before you got there you were out!! Lol what constitutes bag area you ask? It was very wide and tall.....

 

[dad_on_the_bucket]

out - at ASA States our first baseman was pulled to orange bag on wild throw from short and runner was safe. I was told that the orange bag can only be used by fielder if the throw is coming from foul territory. The first baseman does not have the option to use both bags, but runner does. So, by rule the ball is coming from foul territory and the first baseman can us both bags.

 

[Coachemup]

I would certainly be interested to hear an umpire's interpretation of this rule. The rule states that the orange bag can be used by the fielder for a wild throw, and I'm curious if an umpire would consider a ball that bounces off of the first basemen's glove and into foul territor similar to a wild throw. I agree with Hilliarddad3, make the entire bag fair game for the fielder and it's not an issue.

 

[BretMan2]

A fielder may use the colored base when the put out attempt is coming from foul ground. The reasoning is that if the fielder is in foul ground and you require her to still use the white base, it would force the fielder to cross over on a collision course directly into the runner's path. The "safety base" wouldn't be so darn safe in that case!

For the question in the first post, I would have an out.

There are a few exceptions where the fielder may use the colored base. There is the one mentioned above, when the fielder is completely in foul ground and must come back to the base. As someone mentioned, another is when an errant throw pulls the fielder off the white base and into foul ground, or onto the colored base. The last one is when the throw to first base is coming from the foul side of the first base line, like after an uncaught third strike.

Whenever the defense uses the colored base, the runner may use either the colored or the white portion. Most of the time, the runner will be heading directly to the colored base on a routine play. If something happens that causes the defense to use the colored base, it would be unreasonable to expect the runner to recognize that and require them to go to the white base at the last second. So, they can go to the white if they want to, but the rule doesn't require it.

After the initial put out attempt on the batter-runner, the double first base becomes one big base and either side can use either half of it. Runners can tag up or lead off from either half, and fielders can use either half when putting out a runner who left early on a caught fly ball.

And, of course, if there is no initial play at first (for instance, on a double to the outfield) the runner can use either half when rounding first base.

 

[lewam3]

Thanks Bretman. I did not clarify that the first baseman did indeed go into foul territory to retrieve the ball and stepped on orange to avoid the possible collision.

 

[BretMan2]

Thanks Bretman. I did not clarify that the first baseman did indeed go into foul territory to retrieve the ball...

"Duh" on my part...I assumed that's what you meant, even though it wasn't explicit. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[TR_Out]

...The last one is when the throw to first base is coming from the foul side of the first base line, like after an uncaught third strike...

Love that you used "uncaught" instead of "dropped".

 

[FastBat]

This happened to us this year. The other team wanted the runner out after the basemen catching a ball off the outside colored base, the runner touched the colored base as well. Brings up a good point about a batter runner running hard to first would just, as usual, stomp on the colored base.