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How about next year just make it a single elimination tournament and give the teams that were in the losers bracket a break on next years entry fee?
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I'm a coach of a 14U team and I unfortunately couldnt make this tourney with the team.. It's never a good situation when the rains come and you are scrambling to get so many fields playable at the same time... Maybe in the future the age groups could be split up so fewer fields would be needed and then your manpower is concentrated on those fields only.. Maybe that is a naive comment but I feel for everyone including the teams and organizers when these things happen. I dont know how much money had to be spent ahead of time and how much is still owed to umpires and such but when you cannot allow for teams to advance through the losers bracket as originally planned,, some kind of refund should be in order..You will never satisfy everyone but the same thing happened in Canfield 2 years ago and we waited all weekend to play 1 game on Sunday that was on an unplayable field for 50 minutes,, the 10's and 12's were completely washed out and people moaned and moaned until some kind of refund was issued.. At first refunds were not to be issued.. Again, maybe scaling back the number of teams and age groups for that one weekend will help in the future. These tournaments are tremendous undertakings but to those who get slighted,, they are not aware of all the problems you TD's are faced with.. They only know they are not playing ball as promised and they are told that their money is not coming back to them in any shape or form...
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On the Wyandot run Elementary fields where the 10U games were held, We started our 3:30 game and at 3:40, we were pulled off the fields due to lighting. 5 minutes afterwards, it started to rain. It came down pretty heavy for 30 to 35 minutes and I stayed under the tent with the team equipment until it was over. The umps walked over afterwards (Across the infield diamond) and both indicated the fields were in good shape considering the rain. They informed me that the tourney was done for the day and to call the rain line between 8:00 and 9:00 tonight. I had my team come get there stuff and they all carried it across the infield which was still in fairly good shape (Not even a foot print left). In the 25 to 30 minutes it took to let my team know the rain line, we could have been playing. These 2 fields are both sloped down hill and were completely playable within the hour after the rain.
3 games half an inning for $300.00 bucks. I think in our 10U age group, we could have finished out both the winners and losers backets with these 2 fields even after a ton of rain. I'm Agreeing with the previous post here. At our tourney, I have been out at diamonds almost all night working on fields during weather more severe then this only for our tournament to take a huge loss to get games in. I also think you will find teams are willing to assist with getting fields ready if needed. I certainly have done this before in the past.
Classics 10U
3 games half an inning for $300.00 bucks. I think in our 10U age group, we could have finished out both the winners and losers backets with these 2 fields even after a ton of rain. I'm Agreeing with the previous post here. At our tourney, I have been out at diamonds almost all night working on fields during weather more severe then this only for our tournament to take a huge loss to get games in. I also think you will find teams are willing to assist with getting fields ready if needed. I certainly have done this before in the past.
Classics 10U
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My daughter was on a team that was eliminated due to the weather. What makes things worse is that there was a communication error. Her team went to the wrong field for an 8 a.m. game. They were told that it was a 2-hour delay, so when they came back at 10 they found out they had forfeited.
They got to play 2 1/2 innings of their first real bracket game before the rain hit.
However, I don't feel anything is owed to her team. Yes, I wish things were different, but they weren't. I am looking at the bright side though--we will be stepping foot in church Sunday for the first time in weeks. Sure hope they don't think we are visitors.
They got to play 2 1/2 innings of their first real bracket game before the rain hit.
However, I don't feel anything is owed to her team. Yes, I wish things were different, but they weren't. I am looking at the bright side though--we will be stepping foot in church Sunday for the first time in weeks. Sure hope they don't think we are visitors.
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It's time for everyone involved on the GAPSS board to step up and do the right thing. How you handle a situation like this weekend, and the treatment of those unsatisfied teams/customers will certainly determine the long term success, or demise of this tournament. I don't envy you, but like everyone else will sit back and await the outcome.
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At last years GAPSS tourney there was lots of rain and every effort was made to get all the games in.The games were shortened and we played late in the evening. So, when our team left at 4:30 saturday afternoon I expected to be playing sometime saturday night. Looks like you took the easy way out this year. I feel bad for those teams who traveled long distance.
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Unfortunately rain & softball go hand in hand, I've allways wondered why the tourney's don't make an investment to buy tarps to cover the diamonds during rain? Yes, it would be expensive & they wouldn't have to buy them all at once - but wouldn't it be worth it in the long run. More games played = more happy teams. This may be a naive thought since I've never been in charge of a tourney - just a thought. ;D
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The tournament information packet clearly explains their rain-out policy:
"If no games are able to be played, a partial refund may be provided to each team. Full refunds are not possible due to the expenses of the tournament that must be paid prior to the first game played. No refunds will be given if each team has played at leat one game. If extensive rain causes a delay that makes it impossible to complete the double elimination format, the tournament may be changed to single elimination...."
If your team paid to compete in the tournament then you agreed to their rain-out policy. My daughter's team was in the loser's bracket and had two college coaches wanting to watch their next game. It is very disappointing to not play but we will not complain because we understood the rules.
As far as making money...sit down with a tournament director and see the expenses. Entrance fees rarely make a profit for a tournament. Profits come from gate fees, parking fees and concessions. As far as the GAPSS tournament, they only have concessions and I doubt they will make much from that since the rain-out policy was enacted.
Thank you GAPSS for such great effort!
"If no games are able to be played, a partial refund may be provided to each team. Full refunds are not possible due to the expenses of the tournament that must be paid prior to the first game played. No refunds will be given if each team has played at leat one game. If extensive rain causes a delay that makes it impossible to complete the double elimination format, the tournament may be changed to single elimination...."
If your team paid to compete in the tournament then you agreed to their rain-out policy. My daughter's team was in the loser's bracket and had two college coaches wanting to watch their next game. It is very disappointing to not play but we will not complain because we understood the rules.
As far as making money...sit down with a tournament director and see the expenses. Entrance fees rarely make a profit for a tournament. Profits come from gate fees, parking fees and concessions. As far as the GAPSS tournament, they only have concessions and I doubt they will make much from that since the rain-out policy was enacted.
Thank you GAPSS for such great effort!
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I didn't play this year but I know Mike and I am sure he is doing everything possible. If the rain out policy is published as so before you pay, you really can't complain for a refund. My problem is these tournaments always think bigger is better. Get as many teams as possible. Thats nice untill things don't go as planned and you are spread too thin to make things work. We run our own tournament and we were close to getting to that point this year. As we prepare for next year we are talking of setting a team limit and stick to it.
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Mike
I think all people really want is an explanation as to why teams were pulled off of the fields at 4:30 p.m. with no rain comming down and fields that were probably an hour away from being "ready"??? Why not just shorten the games for the rest of the night and be done with it?
As far as refunding the entry fee, you are correct the "rules" do say no refunds, but there were alot of VERY unhappy teams out there that were sent home because the directors at the GAPPS tourny were not prepared for RAIN.
I think all people really want is an explanation as to why teams were pulled off of the fields at 4:30 p.m. with no rain comming down and fields that were probably an hour away from being "ready"??? Why not just shorten the games for the rest of the night and be done with it?
As far as refunding the entry fee, you are correct the "rules" do say no refunds, but there were alot of VERY unhappy teams out there that were sent home because the directors at the GAPPS tourny were not prepared for RAIN.
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The odd thing about the weather was it didn't rain on the west side of 23 until 4:30. At Shanihan it came down in buckets at about 2:15. We were one of the teams that lost and were knocked into the loser's bracket. Olentangy High School had to have the same rain. I don't think they could have played on those fields on Saturday whether it rained at 4:30 or not. In the 12's and 16's I don't think they had any other choice then to go to single elimination.
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It would have been impossible to finish with the loser bracket. It would have meant the team winning their way out would have to play 8-10 games on Sunday. Thats assuming they had the fields to do it. About the only thing they might have offered was a concellation game to all teams in the loser bracket.
If there is any problem with tournaments like this. It is that they take too many teams. Then when rain falls they have no choice but to cancel.
Everyone knows going in what the refund policy is on rain. If you get in a couple games you are not getting anything back. Thats the way it goes. If you have been doing this for many years you know this is what happens. The tournament directors didn't ask for the rain. The money they saved on umpires can go to extra field help, unsold hotdogs and unsold T-Shirts.
If there is any problem with tournaments like this. It is that they take too many teams. Then when rain falls they have no choice but to cancel.
Everyone knows going in what the refund policy is on rain. If you get in a couple games you are not getting anything back. Thats the way it goes. If you have been doing this for many years you know this is what happens. The tournament directors didn't ask for the rain. The money they saved on umpires can go to extra field help, unsold hotdogs and unsold T-Shirts.
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From what I saw @ GAPPS was alot of people doing their very best to get the games in, that being said would have loved being able to play another game considering we went 3-0 then lost to a good team, think we could have battled out of losers bracket and gotten farther then quarter finals, but again, the tourney hosts really did a great job with the hand they had been dealt by mother nature. I would support our team coming back.
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readytoplay-
I think you are sorely mistaken with your comments. Who knew far enough in advance to go home Sat.? We didn't! We stayed because we felt we might as well because we already paid $92 for our rooms.
I understand that rain happens, but how about limiting the number of teams to what you can handle if it rains. You could have shortened ALL game times. How about eliminating only teams who had lost both pool games? Or teams that lost both pool games AND their first elimination game? Seems to me that there are fairer ways to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. Flip a coin or pick names out of a hat-at least then teams wouldn't have felt discrimminated against-they would have felt like it was just the luck of the draw.
I think you are sorely mistaken with your comments. Who knew far enough in advance to go home Sat.? We didn't! We stayed because we felt we might as well because we already paid $92 for our rooms.
I understand that rain happens, but how about limiting the number of teams to what you can handle if it rains. You could have shortened ALL game times. How about eliminating only teams who had lost both pool games? Or teams that lost both pool games AND their first elimination game? Seems to me that there are fairer ways to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. Flip a coin or pick names out of a hat-at least then teams wouldn't have felt discrimminated against-they would have felt like it was just the luck of the draw.
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Play2win,
"I understand that rain happens, but how about limiting the number of teams to what you can handle if it rains. ?You could have shortened ALL game times. ?How about eliminating only teams who had lost both pool games? Or teams that lost both pool games AND their first elimination game? ?Seems to me that there are fairer ways to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. ?Flip a coin or pick names out of a hat-at least then teams wouldn't have felt discrimminated against-they would have felt like it was just the luck of the draw. "
Whoa, you are saying we discriminated against teams? ?Now there is a statement that has absolutely no merit to. ?Don't accuse us of discrimination. ?We tried our best and if you can't see we did, then there are other tournaments you can go to and judge them also. ?It is not mandatory that you have to attend GAPSS. ?Something tells me you have never hosted a tournament.
"I understand that rain happens, but how about limiting the number of teams to what you can handle if it rains. ?You could have shortened ALL game times. ?How about eliminating only teams who had lost both pool games? Or teams that lost both pool games AND their first elimination game? ?Seems to me that there are fairer ways to decide who gets to play and who doesn't. ?Flip a coin or pick names out of a hat-at least then teams wouldn't have felt discrimminated against-they would have felt like it was just the luck of the draw. "
Whoa, you are saying we discriminated against teams? ?Now there is a statement that has absolutely no merit to. ?Don't accuse us of discrimination. ?We tried our best and if you can't see we did, then there are other tournaments you can go to and judge them also. ?It is not mandatory that you have to attend GAPSS. ?Something tells me you have never hosted a tournament.
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I've waited a couple of days to see just what was said about GAPSS. ?This was my first year to attend, our team's second year.
I looked back thru all of the threads so far this year to see what people were complaining about that happens at tournaments. ?Here are some of the repeat offenders.
1. ?Fields were not dragged between games or never.
2. ?Fields were not relined.
3. ?Not enough time for games (Low time limit).
4. ?Expensive concessions.
5. ?No communication.
How could the GAPSS officials know that the reminants of a Hurricane would camp out over Ohio on the same weekend of their tournament? ?Mike, maybe we better check the 2006 Farmer's Almanac to schedule next year's event. ?;D
I have never ran a tournament, but I have sat down and played with charts that deal with number of fields (non-lighted), number of teams, and length of games (and I've slept at a Holiday Inn Express). ?If people want fields adequately maintained (dragged, lined, and watered), then that restricts the game time or the number of teams. ?To me, 1 hour, 15 minutes was sufficient. ?I, like everyone else, would have loved 1.5 hours or more, but if you also want field maintenance, then 1 hour, 15 minutes was okay. ?If you go shorter than 1 hour, 15 minutes, then I think you are starting to cheat the teams. ?We were able to get 5 and 6 innings in with the time limit.
The fields were maintained between each game. ?Well done.
Concessions prices were very reasonable. ?They even had Ice Cream products available at the remote sites.
Did I mention the free entertainment during rain delay on Saturday afternoon?. ?The Teays Valley 12U team did a wonderful performance doing water slides in the outfield, several 10s, a couple 8s. ?Aggregate score of 9.5. ?To get a 10, water had to shoot up and over your whole body.
There was an tournament official on site at all times at our facility. ?They were taking coach's phone numbers to keep them informed. ?All I had to do to get info was to walk up to him and ask questions.
As for pulling teams off of the field at 4:30 pm, there was enough lightning jumping around the entire Powell are that all of us should be shot for being out in it (me included). ?I'm not going to go into how lightning can strike, but if it is for safety, I'm all for it. ?How many parents have been at a game, seen lightning, and wondered "when will they pull the kids off of the field." ?Look at it this way, Mike saved you a lot of wondering and worry.
My DDs team was one that was sent home after the rain because we were in the loser's bracket. ?I wish we could have played more, but I'm not mad or upset. ?The tournament rules, posted months ahead of the tournament, explained the rain procedures.
Well, I've probably put you all to sleep by now. ?Let's hope and pray for better weather next year.
I looked back thru all of the threads so far this year to see what people were complaining about that happens at tournaments. ?Here are some of the repeat offenders.
1. ?Fields were not dragged between games or never.
2. ?Fields were not relined.
3. ?Not enough time for games (Low time limit).
4. ?Expensive concessions.
5. ?No communication.
How could the GAPSS officials know that the reminants of a Hurricane would camp out over Ohio on the same weekend of their tournament? ?Mike, maybe we better check the 2006 Farmer's Almanac to schedule next year's event. ?;D
I have never ran a tournament, but I have sat down and played with charts that deal with number of fields (non-lighted), number of teams, and length of games (and I've slept at a Holiday Inn Express). ?If people want fields adequately maintained (dragged, lined, and watered), then that restricts the game time or the number of teams. ?To me, 1 hour, 15 minutes was sufficient. ?I, like everyone else, would have loved 1.5 hours or more, but if you also want field maintenance, then 1 hour, 15 minutes was okay. ?If you go shorter than 1 hour, 15 minutes, then I think you are starting to cheat the teams. ?We were able to get 5 and 6 innings in with the time limit.
The fields were maintained between each game. ?Well done.
Concessions prices were very reasonable. ?They even had Ice Cream products available at the remote sites.
Did I mention the free entertainment during rain delay on Saturday afternoon?. ?The Teays Valley 12U team did a wonderful performance doing water slides in the outfield, several 10s, a couple 8s. ?Aggregate score of 9.5. ?To get a 10, water had to shoot up and over your whole body.
There was an tournament official on site at all times at our facility. ?They were taking coach's phone numbers to keep them informed. ?All I had to do to get info was to walk up to him and ask questions.
As for pulling teams off of the field at 4:30 pm, there was enough lightning jumping around the entire Powell are that all of us should be shot for being out in it (me included). ?I'm not going to go into how lightning can strike, but if it is for safety, I'm all for it. ?How many parents have been at a game, seen lightning, and wondered "when will they pull the kids off of the field." ?Look at it this way, Mike saved you a lot of wondering and worry.
My DDs team was one that was sent home after the rain because we were in the loser's bracket. ?I wish we could have played more, but I'm not mad or upset. ?The tournament rules, posted months ahead of the tournament, explained the rain procedures.
Well, I've probably put you all to sleep by now. ?Let's hope and pray for better weather next year.
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Classics,
AGAIN, we did not know by 5 pm. When they called all games for saturday they said to call the hotline between 8 and 9 pm to find out when we played next. Our hotel would not allow us to check out when we finally did find out.
I still feel that they over booked this tournament. They were already behind from the get go-even before any rain happened. Our first game started late on friday!
As far as the "taking care of business" comment, that was just rude even if it is true. Families paid well over $200 this weekend to play ball-sorry if we were a little disappointed that we didn't get the chance to play much only PAY much!
AGAIN, we did not know by 5 pm. When they called all games for saturday they said to call the hotline between 8 and 9 pm to find out when we played next. Our hotel would not allow us to check out when we finally did find out.
I still feel that they over booked this tournament. They were already behind from the get go-even before any rain happened. Our first game started late on friday!
As far as the "taking care of business" comment, that was just rude even if it is true. Families paid well over $200 this weekend to play ball-sorry if we were a little disappointed that we didn't get the chance to play much only PAY much!
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play2win,
Ok let's put a disgruntled voice with an actual team. ?What team is yours? ?Probably won't answer that one, I am sure.
We did not overbook, I have no idea what you are talking about. ?And what pool game started late?? ?Give me some information besides bad mouthing our tournament.
And what is meant by that last comment about $200 or some nonsense? ?I take it this is your first travel tournament you have ever been to?
I also remembered that you are the one who accuses us of discriminating against teams. Your posts hold not merit with me until you say who you are.
Put a name behind your rough-toned emails. ?
That will probably keep you quiet.
Mike Flanagan
GAPSS
Ok let's put a disgruntled voice with an actual team. ?What team is yours? ?Probably won't answer that one, I am sure.
We did not overbook, I have no idea what you are talking about. ?And what pool game started late?? ?Give me some information besides bad mouthing our tournament.
And what is meant by that last comment about $200 or some nonsense? ?I take it this is your first travel tournament you have ever been to?
I also remembered that you are the one who accuses us of discriminating against teams. Your posts hold not merit with me until you say who you are.
Put a name behind your rough-toned emails. ?
That will probably keep you quiet.
Mike Flanagan
GAPSS
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This is my familys 3rd year of travel ball and 5th year of tournament ball. I have seen all kinds of tournaments. I have to say that I thought GAPPS was extremely well run. There was an official at every field we had to be at (including at the ambulance when my daughter was injured). Even had the packet not stated that the tournament could become single elimination that is the only thing I could possibly imagine would happen. To not have shortened game times on Sunday to me was absolutely fantastic. I have seen tournaments that have a 50 or 60 minute time limit after rain. Knowing that there was a possiblity to be eliminated very early with the rain coming was also a good incentive to go play hard and score early. Overall I was very happy with the tournament. We were even done with championship games on Sunday early enough to get home at a fairly reasonable hour.
As for the concession prices I thought they were reasonable and there was no gate fee. I will go to the concession stand when I didn't have to spend a weeks wages to get in the gate. A big hand goes out to everyone involved in GAPPS.
As for the concession prices I thought they were reasonable and there was no gate fee. I will go to the concession stand when I didn't have to spend a weeks wages to get in the gate. A big hand goes out to everyone involved in GAPPS.
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Thanks softballfan anbd wvan.... ? We are trying our best and I will do whatever is necessary to continue to bring a quality venue to Columbus. ?Glad you had a good time. ?Seems like most people understood our dilemma.
