Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Give pitchers a break-umpires strike zone?

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I understand where Rich is coming from, however, the reality of the situation is that there are umpires that have their own version of the strike zone other than the one outlined in the rule book. Yes, you have to adjust but it should be to a minute degree and not to a "shoebox".

I have been coaching for a number of years and at every age level. It is the younger ages that end up with the 'learning' umpires and it evident that they often get the "short end of the stick". One of the most frustrating thing for a pitcher (and often the hitter) is the wide variance in the strike zone. The team works hard on plate discipline and when they face an umpire that destroys that discipline, what do you think they are doing for the development of young pitchers and hitters? Not a ...... thing. Umpires, learn the strike zone and do not hinder the develpment of young players! They work hard and to be struck down by "I have my OWN strike zone" is a feeble excuse for an incompetent umpire.

 

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As a pithcer's dad I do not want anything extra just the defined strike zone ;D ;D by the rule book not the umpire. Movement pitches are very difficult to throw in a three inch pipe over the middle of the plate. Pithcing coaches spend almost all of there time nibbling the corners and it becomes very frustrating when blue wants it down the middle. My dd knows to adjust and bring it in or up a tad once she knows the strike zone but as a young developing athlete she is going to make enough "mistake" pitches for any travel hitter to get a chance.

 

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Most umpires are fine and we have always told our pitchers the same thing ... that you need to adjust to the umpire's strike zone and we talk about it early in the game with both hitters and pitchers ... but the point is well-made by bh242 ... the issue is those few umpires who take it upon themselves to shrink the zone and force the pitcher to just throw the ball down the middle of the plate instead of really pitching to the corners and all parts of the zone. Our pitchers will and do adjust ... but the result against a good hitting team are rockets back up the middle. Just call the strike zone as its defined and don't make up your own rules.

 

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I've yet to see an umpire hold a gun to a pitcher's head - forcing them to throw meatballs! I agree that some umps can be pretty creative with their version of a strike zone. But successful pitchers have a LOT of tools to work with.

The rockets back at the pitcher are the result of a pitcher "giving in" and not using any alternatives. By about the third inning, or 2nd time through the order, batters have seen what she's got, and start crushing the ball. Nipping the corners won't always work.

The other "tools" are off-speed pitches (including a killer change-up), changing timing of delivery, and icing the batter by occasionally stepping off the rubber. Far too often I see a young pitcher that literally looks like a pitching machine! Same rhythm, flat pitch after flat pitch. No wonder batters time them up!

ONE: Every batter should see AT LEAST one change-up. TWO: Pitchers have ten seconds to deliver the pitch once the hands come together. Vary that timing - deliver some pitches immediately, then wait maybe to a count of 7 or 8 for the next one. Even the fans in the bleachers gets confused by this, so imagine how you can "ice" an anxious batter! THREE: A pitcher can also simply step off the rubber after taking a sign from the catcher. Too much of this WILL tick off an umpire, but hey - you're sending a message that YOU as a pitcher can control the pace of the game - and the mindset of the batters.

Good pitchers DO have a LOT more control of the game that they think. Just by changing rhythm a little, you'd be surprised at how many "meatballs" turn into looked-at 3rd strikes!

 

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My dd was taught by her pitching coach that in an attempt to adjust to the ump's "personal strike zone" that it was acceptable after a few "ball" calls to politely ask the ump if the ball was too low, or outside?, etc., so she could make the adjustment. ?

Most competent/confident umps have no problem with answering her questions, but one ump (when she was pitching 12u) ?took this as a challenge to his authority and she never got another strike call the rest of the inning. ?

The calls were so blatantly bad we even heard parents on the other side gasp. ?Her coach let her struggle through the rest of the inning (the only way we got an out was plays on the bases) and I'm proud to say I had never seen her pitch better, but she was in tears as she came back to the bench. ?We had to put in another pitcher for the rest of the game. ? ?Of course, the next pitcher had plenty of strikes called, he had punished the girl who he felt challenged his authority.

This was my first experience with a ump ?who needed to be the center of the show and would bend over backwards to make bad calls (a creep, who in my opinion, has no business umping anywhere, much less a young girls' game). >

Again, she has always asked in a non-challenging tone, just in an honest attempt to learn where his strike zone is, to improve her strike/ball ratio. ?Most umps have no problem with this and take it as opportunity to instruct a young pitcher.

 

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I had an ump tell me he was going to "open it up a bit" after we got a lead on a team. I said the strike zone is the strike zone, you can't do that. He said he was doing me a favor for telling me he was and was mad that I didn't thank him I guess...

My pitchers spend the first inning discovering what they will get. Its part of the game to adjust. But making adjustments as you go, that's really hard.

 

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I actually heard an umpire tell a pitcher and a catcher that the strike zone was from the belt to the kees! This was at an ASA qualifier. He wasn't kidding either because the pitcher threw 4 straight pitches down the middle at the belly button and not one called for a strike. Maybe some of them don't actually know what the zone is!

 

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Excellent post! Umpires seem to walk up with their personal strike zone. How many times have I seen a certain umpire and I tell our pitcher he like the knees or this ump never calls the high strikes. Adjustments are key and show the depth of the pitchers skills.

I still rather they called the strike zone as describe in the rule books. And your comment about Kathy at the Spano Dome, yes she is a pretty good umpire. She also will not call a high strike and she panders to the crowd continually. Some umpires like the attention.

JMHO

 

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As the father of a pitcher I love this thread. ?Pitchers spend hours working on not throwing the ball down the middle of the plate and then get an umpire who will call nothing else. ? I have seen my dd gut a pitch at the belt, ?middle of the plate, ?twice to a batter who took a walk and no strike call from the ump. ? How do you say cut down the walks after that. ? I do wish the strike zone would be called as written in the rule books. ? I have had umpires say the pitcher has to prove she can throw the pitch and hit the glove, ? a strike is a strike when the ball passes through the strike zone wether there is a catcher there or not. ? The umpires we have delt with this season seem to have one small zone that they will call a strike and it is no where near the defined strike zone. ? You can always point to a couple pitches that are outside the strike zone getting called, I call these rogue strikes, ?seems to be about one per inning, but there is a general shrinking of the strike zone. ? At some point the movement pitch is useless and this is very tuff at the 18U level since batters don't swing at just any pitch most are looking for a specific pitch in a specific zone and when the strike zone is not called as written the pitcher has to give in and that is when the hi tech bats become dangerous.

 

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Timac - my daughter pitches at the 18U level as well and we are on the same page. Sammy, while you are right that there are things a pitcher can change around her pitches and rhythm, the bottom line is that on those umpires who choose to have a very small strike zone, a disciplined batter can and will sit back and wait for what she wants and she is the one holding the gun. My daughter's best pitch is her change up and she probably throws 20 or so in a game, about 80% of them for strikes, but if the batter has the advantage of waiting for one of those down the middle of the plate because of the way the umpire is defining the strike zone that day, she is going to get hammered. I can't say for sure that I've necessarily noticed strike zones getting smaller, but I can say that we run into 2-3 umpires a year who do this and I just pray that when we do, its not up against one of the really good hitting teams because its no fun being the father of a pitcher when that happens.

 

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There are many excellent points. ?One thing to keep in mind also is the age group you are talking about. ?BH made a great point earlier that girls who are "learning" to hit spots will make enough mistakes on their own to give the opposition opportunities to hit the ball. ?They don't need umpires crunching the zone. ?No, umpires may not be holding a gun to their head, but if the strike zone is not realistic and you are still developing the tools of pitching, you may throw more meatballs than you should, increasing the odds that you will see more hard shots back up the middle.

Of course my favorite is where you have a very good team and a good team playing and the pitchers are held to two entirely different zones. ?It is blatantly obvious that the "very good" pitcher is being help to a stricter zone because "she is capable" of hitting it. ?I have even heard umpires explain to coaches that they are shrinking the strike zone on their pitcher to develop them for the future. ?Why take a promising young pitcher and crush their morale by making them throw it down the middle? ?No matter how many other tools they try to use, they are still going to be frustrated when they are taught to use the whole plate, and yet the umpire has decided they can't.

 

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Just getting back into town so I'm checking in late on this interesting thread...

An umpire should call the zone as instructed by whichever sanctioning body he is working for. The training provided under every code DOES NOT instruct umpires to only call pitches right down Broadway!

Unfortunately, "umpire training" is a huge variable. The other big variable is umpire judgement, which by nature will vary from person-to-person.

ASA, FED, NCAA, etc. all offer diagrams and instructions to umpires to aid them in calling a consistent zone that equally suits both the pitcher and batter.

If an umpire has not been exposed to this training, or chooses to ignore it, you might not be in for a pleasant afternoon at the ballpark! :'(

 

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I guess I would have to ask how they were not exposed to the training if they are certified? I know it may take a little work and game experience to get the strike zone down for those attempting to call the correct zone - it is the ones that supplanted the correct strike zone with their own version that irks me.

Last week at NSA state, we one of the umpires who consticted the stike zone in a way that was unbelievable. I was prepared to send for the OIC to observe this person calling strikes. He had the smallest strike zone that I have witnesses and being a 12U game it was disasterous.

For example, the pitcher in this game averaged 5ks and 2 BBs thoughout the tournament. With this umpire she had 2Ks and 9BBs. (It was called the same for both teams) She and the other pitcher was flabbergasted. It was bad enough that the field umpire was observed shaking his head.

Good, I vented and I feel better.

 

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I guess I would have to ask how they were not exposed to the training if they are certified?

That's what I meant by "if they choose to ignore it". Even if the umpire has been trained the right way, he could still have bad judgment, poor plate mechanics, or even some misguided agenda on making the game more "fair" for the batters.

It's hard for me to make a blanket statement on the thousands of umpires calling games in this state. Personally, if I was evaluating an umpire who squeezed the zone that much, we would definitely be having a talk about it after the game.

Calling an efective zone is perhaps one of the most important game management items an umpire must learn. It took me several years of experience to get to this point, but I rarely get complaints about the zone I call. I use the guidelines set forth by ASA and, I hope, good judgment to apply those guidelines.

Now, let me take a second to bash an umpire!

If the base umpire in your game was visibly shaking his head to the point that other game participants knew he was questioning his partners calls, I would have a big problem with the base umpire!

When working with a partner, you are acting as a team and should refrain from throwing your teammate under the bus. No umpire is to criticize antother umpire's call- no matter how bad it is! Sometimes you might just have to bite your tongue and stand there- and watch you body language, too!

One umpire undermining another is one of those big "DO NOT DO THAT" things learned in classes and clinics. When the umpire teamwork breaks down, you can quickly have umpires that lose control of the game.

 

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How do the coaches and parents of girls playing in the younger divisions feel about umpires widening the strike zone to "help" out beginning pitchers? My daughter pitches U12. She is very new at it and is the ONLY pitcher on her team that has any training at all. Her form is good and her speed is ok but location is shaky at times. Her team is very weak and is in a very competitive league. Losses by 20 or more are common.

I know I'm favoring my daughter here but...would there be a lot of opposition to an umpire's zone widening when a game is clearly out of hand and she is obviously struggling. I'm not talking about balls over the head or rolling on the ground. But I saw an umpire, with the score 22-4 in the 3rd inning and 2 outs, call a ball four on a pitch he even admitted was "just a tad outside".

Call the strike zone as its meant to be called or adjust as the game progresses? Just curious.

 

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I have seen my share of really bad umpiring regarding the strike zone. Problem is, you can vent all you want about the umps bad calls, but they never change. You can yell at the screaming kid in the grocery store, but hindsight would say that the parents are the ones to blame. My point is, if umpires don't get good training and they're just there for the buck and ego boost, it's too late to tell them how bad they really are. YOU may feel better, but the strike zone will probably shrink even more!

You can gripe & grumble, but in the end, as a pitcher, your DD has to deal with bad umps. I'd prefer to make lemonade - if you catch my drift. Another great tactic is to keep the ball LOW if you feel you have to throw strikes. Try to induce ground-outs - trust your defense.

Choose whichever path makes you, as a dad or coach, feel better, but good luck getting a bad ump to change his or her calls! Personally, I'd invest the energy into something I have more control over.

 

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Bucket Jockey,

I think that an umpire should make some adjustments when calling the zone to account for the skill level of the players and level of play.

Here is an example: The NCAA umpire manual instructs its umpires to call the top of the strike zone such that the top edge of the ball is touching the line at the armpits. They want the ball brought down into the zone, and lowered a ball width at the knees. They also reco mmend giving a ball's width on the outside of the plate, while still requiring the pitcher to nick the plate on the inside corner.

In a 12U recreational game, you're probably going to give the pitcher a strike when any part of the ball barely nicks the zone- essentially, a ball width all the way around. I would start at that point and maybe make some small adjustments as the game progresses, possibly if neither pitcher is very skilled or the game is a blow out score.

As you say, if the zone is expanded it should not be to some ridiculous level, like for pitches over the head or at the ankles. The pitches should still be within a zone that the batter can actually have a chance at getting the bat on the ball.

There can be a fine line between "too big" and "not big enough" and it is the umpire's resposibility to find that line.

At higher levels, with pitchers that can pop the mitt and hit their spots, I would start with something very close to the NCAA described zone and stick with that same zone the entire game, with the possible exception of near the end of a blow out game. Opening up the zone is pretty much expected by both sides in those circumstances.

One BIG point on an umpire altering his zone: Whatever adjustments you make, make them for BOTH teams! DO NOT call some pitches one way for one pitcher and another way for the other in an attempt to "even things up", or to punish a skilled pitcher and reward a lesser-skilled one.

Calling the same exact zone for both teams is the only acceptable way to keep things "fair" for both teams and will minimize any complaints due to a changing strike zone.

 

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[quote author=Johnnies link=1183550738/25#32 date=1183662443]I guess I would have to ask how they were not exposed to the training if they are certified?

That's what I meant by "if they choose to ignore it". Even if the umpire has been trained the right way, he could still have bad judgment, poor plate mechanics, or even some misguided agenda on making the game more "fair" for the batters.

It's hard for me to make a blanket statement on the thousands of umpires calling games in this state. Personally, if I was evaluating an umpire who squeezed the zone that much, we would definitely be having a talk about it after the game.

Calling an efective zone is perhaps one of the most important game management items an umpire must learn. It took me several years of experience to get to this point, but I rarely get complaints about the zone I call. I use the guidelines set forth by ASA and, I hope, good judgment to apply those guidelines.

Now, let me take a second to bash an umpire!

If the base umpire in your game was visibly shaking his head to the point that other game participants knew he was questioning his partners calls, I would have a big problem with the base umpire!

When working with a partner, you are acting as a team and should refrain from throwing your teammate under the bus. No umpire is to criticize antother umpire's call- no matter how bad it is! Sometimes you might just have to bite your tongue and stand there- and watch you body language, too!

One umpire undermining another is one of those big "DO NOT DO THAT" things learned in classes and clinics. When the umpire teamwork breaks down, you can quickly have umpires that lose control of the game.[/quote]

Bretman,

It probably was not observed by anyone else watching the game. ?I have a lifelong severe hearing loss and I am a little more adepted at picking up on visual clues that others miss. ? Sometimes when a person is thinking something, their body movements and facial expressions play along with those thoughts - and sometimes those visual clues are very subtle. ?I could tell the field ump was not happy with the strikezone because that is something I developed over the years. ?I doubt anyone else could pick up the clues. (The headshaking and tightening of the lips was very subtle, but it was in the right context. ?Subtle to me is very demostrative.)

 

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The rockets back at the pitcher are the result of a pitcher "giving in" and not using any alternatives. By about the third inning, or 2nd time through the order, batters have seen what she's got, and start crushing the ball. Nipping the corners won't always work.

? ? ?Sammy...I agree with many of your suggestions, especially the other alternatives to keeping the batter off balance. ?Your suggestions are useful and should be utilized, however; they are only useful to a point. ?You may get ?through a few extra batters with the off speed pitch and changing the timing, but in the end, the umpire has the final say and if it's no corners or no high/low for a strike, then a pitcher has no choice but to bring the ball into the zone that the umpire will call for a strike. ?
? ? "Giving in"?, I just can't agree with that. ?You can't say it's "giving in" when you don't have control over the strike zone. ?It's either a strike or a ball, and if what your pitching isn't what the ump considers a strike, then you're pretty much at his mercy. ?As Timac pointed out, without a doubt the better teams with more disciplined batters will let those so called "boarderline pitches" (drop, curve, rise) go by for balls, and wait for the pitcher to come to them with a pitch that the umpire will call a strike. ?And if they have the luxary of a tighter strike zone, then they can sit back and wait on those change ups too. ?

 

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...I am a little more adepted at picking up on visual clues that others. Sometimes when a person is thinking something, their body movements and facial expressions play along with those thoughts - and sometimes the visual clues are very subtle.

Mental note to self: next time when coaching against Johnnies shoot entire face with novacaine. :-X