help with - suicide squeeze scoring ~

[DanMaz]

ok - typical scenario here with runner on 3rd and 1 out...

perfect executed suicide squeeze with runner scoring and batter safe at first. There was no attempt to throw either runner out because the play was executed the way it is drawn up... no errors just a perfect play. The runner and batter and both did their job!

how do you score this in the books? FC / RBI? - base hit RBI ? - sac bunt / hit RBI ? any help would be appreciated!

thanks!
DMaz

 

[mgardner]

Would the batter/runner have been safe at first if no one was on base?

 

[DanMaz]

hard to say ... with some focus on the runner heading home and by the time the 3rd base had received the bunt, the runner was almost at 1st so no throw was made.

 

[mgardner]

If the batter was safe due to the focus on the runner going home score it a sac. If she would have been safe regardless score it a hit.

 

[snoman76]

I'm scoring a hit with an RBI

 

[initfor51]

I would score it as a hit. The batter had a tough job. Have to get that ball in play no matter what. She also wasn't putting it down to be a sac bunt, but an actual hit.

Suicides deserve a hit and RBI.

 

[mwaddell]

In my opinion. . . . not for you to determine. Because there was not an out recorded and no error was made, it should be a hit with an RBI. Only recorded as a SAC if she truly sacrificed herself, and an out was recorded on her at first base, which helped advance the runner to score.

Would the batter/runner have been safe at first if no one was on base?

 

[Lenski65]

As a scorekeeper you have to ask yourself: Would the batter have been safe if the fielder would have fielded the bunt and directly thrown it to first base for the out? If the answer is yes then it is a hit. If the answer is no, then it is not a hit and it is scored a FC with an RBI.

 

[coachjwb]

As described, it sounds like a hit and RBI.

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

Per NCAA scoring..........I'd score it a HIT & RBI if the play could not be made at first .....BUT remember you can't charge an error for a mental mistake!! Good Luck!! here is the link..........and the rule...........http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

ERROR
SECTION 16. a. An error is charged against any fielder (pitchers included) for each misplay
that prolongs the time at bat of the batter or the time as a runner of a base runner or permits
a runner to advance one or more bases.
Note 1: Slow handling of the ball that does not involve mechanical misplay shall not be construed as an error.
Note 2: It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. If a ground ball goes through
a fielder’s legs or a pop fly falls untouched and, in the scorer’s judgment, the fielder could have handled the ball
with ordinary effort, an error should be charged.
Note 3: Mental mistakes or misjudgments are not to be scored as errors unless specifically covered in the rules.

 

[initfor51]

People tend to forget about mental errors not being listed as an error. Score keepers will look and think they should have done that and give an error which is not the rule.

Just remember you aren't in the girls head and she may have been thinking something different at the time.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

As a scorekeeper you have to ask yourself: Would the batter have been safe if the fielder would have fielded the bunt and directly thrown it to first base for the out? If the answer is yes then it is a hit. If the answer is no, then it is not a hit and it is scored a FC with an RBI.

This play would not result in the batter getting an FC because they bunted and advanced a runner. "If the answer is no, then it is" scored a Sac with an RBI and B-R reaching 1B via FC. You don't penalize the batter for the defense not getting them out.

 

[DanMaz]

some great replies and greatly appreciated!

I think base hit RBI is the call I would make too. When its done right, it is a sweet play and the defense cant do much about it.

Thanks to all that responded!

 

[Lenski65]

This play would not result in the batter getting an FC because they bunted and advanced a runner. "If the answer is no, then it is" scored a Sac with an RBI and B-R reaching 1B via FC. You don't penalize the batter for the defense not getting them out.

You're right. I must have needed more coffee before I answered the question.........lol.

 

[TR_Out]

Three questions here cover the scenario: 1.) Does the batter/runner get an RBI? YES. 2.) Would the Batter/Runner been safe if the fielder would have ignored the runner? YES? HIT; NO? FC; Don't Know (too close to guess) HIT. 3.) Was the batter/runner out at first? NO. Can't be a SAC.
Notice that none of the questions mention "suicide squeeze"; that's 'cause it has no bearing on how it is scored. JMHO and how I would score it in any book I am keeping until someone can convince me otherwise.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

3.) Was the batter/runner out at first? NO. Can't be a SAC.

That is incorrect - 3 of the 4 NCAA scoring rules for Sacrifice do no require the B-R out at 1B.

14.8.1 ...out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
14.8.2 When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without error) fails to get the lead base runner out on any type of bunt.
14.8.3 When, with fewer than two outs, the lead base runner advances by means of a bunt even though a trailing runner is out.

All 3 are combo cases where the time at bat is recorded as Sac and the B-R reaching 1B is recorded as ROE/FC. The second 2 would be FC on a regular ground ball, but are scored Sac on a bunt with less than 2 outs. NCAA doesn't explicitly address OP's case, but their philosophy clearly does.

 

[TR_Out]

Thanks, SoCal! I can go home; I learned something today!