"HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!!

[default]

I have coached sofball for only 14 years. It has spanned 2 daughters, many rec leagues, travel teams, tournaments, Jr. High leagues, and fall ball. I'm sure many of us if not all who participate on this site have similar or even much more extensive experience. I'm posting this thread hopefully to reinstate in the minds of all of us parents the overwhelming importance of High School softball. All too often on this site, comments like, "Spring Ball is just a warm up for Summer Ball" and "My dd's 16u travel team could whip her High School varsity team" go to undermining the importance of PARTICIPATION with our dd's friends and classmates in a community setting. TRAVEL BALL and HIGH SCHOOL BALL is a 2 way street. Travel ball provides a player with the opportunity to develop rapidly under ideal conditions. Six or more games a weekend in ideal weather with and against other highly motivated players for 8 to 11 weekends will do that. High School Ball provides opportunities for girls to develop a sense of community and pride and LEADERSHIP. I have seen Juniors and Seniors work with underclassmen to help them get better. A High School team is a 4 year committment, unlike a travel team, which you all know is in many many cases a constant search for greener pastures. ABSOLUTELY there are girls stuck on High School Teams with less talented and less motivated girls. HELLO MOM AND DAD, do your job, teach your star travel dd her responsibility to be a leader, she may learn the greatest satisfaction of all learning to help others not as gifted or fortunate as her. YES the High School coach will benefit from your dd's off season workouts, lessons and travel ball experience, but he is much more restricted and regulated on how when where and who he can work with. Who is regulating the wild eyed demanding travel coach. You're only action is to remove your player. At least with the High School there are rules and you can work within the system. FINALLY, High School privides things travel ball doesn't. ALL LEAGUE, ALL DITRICT and ALL STATE awards. Don't sit there and tell me you won't be adding these to your dd's resume when you put together those videos. Oh and by the way, when your daughter decides on signing with that Div. 1 college team, the local newspaper, (which you will collect 50 copies of), will state "Susie May Finklestein, All district pitcher of Moopy Heights HIGH SCHOOL signed today with the Ohio State Buckeyes". Did you notice the Lasers or Magic or Heat weren't mentioned there. Take the time to encourage your daughters to enjoy and develop in both Travel and High School Ball. My soapbox has broken under my great weight.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Very well stated!!! [smiley=dankk2.gif]

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Yeah for Thunder. I hope Big Train is listening!!!!!

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Thunder-Road-- EXCELLENT!

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

My daughter bleeds her school colors. There are few students more dedicated to her school and to softball. She is a junior this year and has played travel ball for 5 years. During her travel ball experience she has been very successful against some very good teams. She is a dedicated, hard-working pitcher who hopes to play at the college level.

All that being said, this year her High School is not a member of a league. They will be competing as an independent. Her all-league honors are a thing of the past. I'm not aware of the school finding a league for her senior year either. There is also an outside chance if a levy doesn't pass this fall that sports may be gone her senior year.

Yes High School is important but I'm very happy that we found a first rate travel team for her also.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Very Good , worth reading twice

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

great post Thunder... Our DD is very proud to play for her high school. She has great friends on the opposing schools that she met thru summer ball. Her high school has a great tradition of being very competative.

good luck with your daughter's high school softball Daved. Hope it all works out.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

There is no question as to the importance of High School Varsity athletics - especially with regard to the Community-at-large's acceptance and recognition. The girl's, themselves, understand the differences in the game and accept the fact that in many cases that their HS teammates arent necessarily as serious about the game as they are - that there are different reasons for being on the team. They recognize that the girls who dont practice year-round don't have the same skill set that they do - and wont necessarily play the way that they have been trained - and that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a HS Coach - if playing within the OSHAA constraints - to bring those girls to the level of the ones who train all year.

There needs to be cooperation between the HS and Travel Coaches. We can't put the girls in the middle. This game, after all, is about them.

I am a travel coach who also coached 1 year of High School.

Do I have a somewhat opinionated view of the situation - probably, however, after working with my girls for 9 months then being told that what I've taught them - and won with - is completely wrong, is somewhat difficult to accept. To have a pitcher be told by their HS Coach that HE is now their pitching coach, their hitting coach and their fielding coach and that the money that her parents spent throughout the year was wasted - is just wrong. I like to think that I learn from watching other teams and coaches. If there is something that I can bring back to my team to make us better - I do. I'm happy to talk to a HS coach about a girl that we share.

It comes down to respect - from both coaching directions and to the girls. If a HS Coach respects the work that our shared player has put in - they have my respect and cooperation. If they dont, I become fiercely protective. Note that I didnt say agree with - just respect. If you respect their work - you'll ask why they are doing something that you might do differently or just not agree with. The girls will explain - and then you go from there.

Remember - If a player doesnt like me or my program, they can vote with their feet. If they want to play for their HS, they HAVE to play for you or who ever for what ever reason the board has selected. My daughter had 3 miserable years of HS Ball, but played because she wanted a season with her friends. Winning Regionals or State would have been a great experience. Maybe if the coach had tapped the skill sets of some of his players and used them to help bring the other girls up (instead of playing god) - they might have got there.

This is not a rant against HS Coaches. There are plenty of good ones who recognize both sides of the game - just as there are bad Travel Coaches. Unfortunately, as long as the OSHAA has its draconian rules that basically pit HS and Travel Coaches against each other, I dont see things changing much.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Bigtrain thoroughly enjoys high school softball and has had the pleasure of two daughters having played on Division I state championship teams and one son play in a state championship game.
But it is what it is.
High school softball is for moms & dads, press clippings and wearing your school's uniform. It's a great experience that the masses can enjoy.
Travel softball is for training, competing against the best in the world and earning athletic scholarships. This is for about .1 percent of the population.
All I can say conclusively from my own experiences is that I've had three kids earn athletic scholarships to big-time programs and NOT once was the performance in high school ball of any concern from the college coach.
Grades, of course. Ball, not!!!
Enjoy it -- it goes quickly!!

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

A father of one of my DDs high school team mate's once told me "Girls don't need to play travel ball to get on a college team. You just have to be a natural athlete." Boy, am I glad we didn't listen to that advice.

Yes, high school softball is VERY important, and I wouldn't suggest that any girl pass up the experience. You can't go back and do it again if you pass it up. But the leadership aspect can be very political if the coach allows it. It can also deteriorate into a mode of tolerance more than leadership. The travel ball girls have to accept the fact that the rec. level girls are there for more of a social reason than for the competition. Some are happy to just sit on the bench! That's a fact of life in high school, and the sooner your DD adjusts, the smoother things go.

The district awards, the .750 batting averages, and ridiculous pitching stats are skewed so much that nobody believes them anyway. Just ask a college coach. BUT, the college coaches know the importance of traditional advertising of their roster. And since there are no comparable awards in summer ball, and these stats DO always look favorable, they continue to use them.

Sorry for being such a gloomy Gus, but there is a reality check to this, and it's not fair to expect a high school coach to have the same perspective. High school ball is VERY important - but geared more toward the social and school spirit aspects than hard core competition. High school ball, as with anything, is only as good as you make it. Accept it for what it offers, and enjoy it - four years go real fast!

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Well said, Thunder. I'm looking forward to my dd's participation in junior high ball, and eventually, high school ball. Having that sense of pride in her school is something to look forward to, and while travel will dominate her summer, school ball will surely demand our spring.

As for some of what DA was mentioning, hopefully my DD will acknowledge the need to adjust hitting/fielding/pitching styles based on the coach she has. Hopefully i wont be THAT dad who grumbles about my dd's coach changing her swing, or teaching them something "wrong." I've always stressed that everyone is taught at some level. So it's better to hear someone out, check the results and adjust if needed. Hopefully, both the travel coaches and school coaches "respect" one another in those terms.

I know that watching her travel team now, there's always going to be some grumbling....I always say, if you're still batting .100, hitting players with your changeup, or making countless errors, you might need to listen to someone other than what you've done before. We had a girl bat over .400 all of last year, so whoever she was paying was well worth it--you think she was told much? not really. You bat .200, well, it's game to be told.

Once again, well said DA and Thunder

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Can't really disagree much with what anyone has said here. David addressed something that I would also like to address from Thunder Road's post.

"Who is regulating the wild eyed demanding travel coach. You're only action is to remove your player."

The parents are regulating the travel coach. The fact that every girl is a free agent every season is a HUGE regulation on travel coaches. Since most travel coaches won't force a girl to stay if she wants to leave in the middle of a season, girls are basically free agents all the time.

I wish more high school coaches would coach travel and vice versa. Both make good points and it would be good for them to be in each other's shoes. High school coaches ideally should have to deal with the humbling - but beneficial - experience of girls leaving your team. It forces a coach to constantly take stock of his/her actions and to improve if he wants to continue to have a team. Travel coaches should be in the position of dealing with Draconian regulations, taking whatever girls happen to come their way, dealing with school administrators, and trying to coach a team effectively that has a wide disparity in talent.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

JoeA, you wear both hats, so nobody is probably more qualified to speak about this subject than you.
Since you're on both sides of the fence, I'll pose this question:
Can a high school coach cut a parent like a travelball coach can, or do the parents run the high school coach?

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Great post. High school ball is very important because since for a lot of the players it is their only playing time all year, so you spend a lot of time reworking fundamentals that are always good to have. However, some issues with coaches still exist when they decide to play "daddy ball" with a school team...but anyways, enjoyed the message!

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

I saw way too much political bull#*!! in HS ball and the fact that you are stuck with the situation of a bad coach. My daughter loved playing HS ball, but realized it was very political. I really wonder sometimes why a coach is coaching HS ball. You can tell the reason by the amount of time and effort put into the practices and off-season workouts. I witnessed a HS coach get the credit for winning back-to-back D-1 state championships and the real credit was actually with the travel coaches. The HS coach did not develop the girls playing skills; he just used the skills from travel ball in the correct way during games.

So, I have to agree more with bigtrain and doa.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Many valid points on both sides here as far as importance of the individual playing either or. We just tell ours, You play the style of the coach you are playing for at the time of year you are playing for them. If you've learned something from your travel coach that your HS coach doesn't want you to do... Shelve it until the summer starts again and vice versa.

Has she learned some good things from both? Absolutely

Has she learned bad habits from both? Possibly

It is the same thing as clinics they attend, you pick what you want to keep from individuals that suit you and work and toss the rest, as most college clinics teach it differently too.

No different than any boss you or she will have.


and it has worked so far so good...

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

When was the last time you heard a college coach even mention school ball unless youre on a perennial powerhouse program? The majority ive talked to are more interested in the players GPA's when it comes to high school than their playing. In fact most of them wont even take h.s. stats into consideration. They realize you face mediocre to bad teams one day and a strong team the next, whereas in travel ball, youre playing against strong competition every time you step on the field. Maybe thats why they flock to the bigger tournies and showcases and not the game between Moopy Heights h.s & Joe Blow h.s.
Since were talking about regulations, i think the regulating they really need to do with h.s. school coaches is how they determine who gets the job, experience needs to come in somewhere, not if youre toting a union card.
My DD's coach is a teacher who took the job as extra income with no experience whatsoever. Hes also the wrestling & tennis coach and he does none of them well. His idea of showing the girls how to play positions was to pass out things he downloaded off the internet. He makes 75% of the games with seniors running the show when he doesnt show up.
Is it my daughters or her fellow upperclassmen's responsibility to do his job or make up for his inexperience? Theyve worked with the incoming players more as a necessity. My DD in fact takes great pride in the many hours coaching upcoming girls, shes practically running her own pitching class for freshman & jv, passing on what she has learned from 5 years of pitching instruction so im confident in the development of her leadership skills....
Obviously everyones h.s. ball experience isnt the same as others, as the same goes for travel ball. I wouldnt be so quick to rip one over the other.

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Thunder I enjoyed your thoughts regarding hs softball. ? ?I have always believed that hs and travel ball ?compliment each other. ? ?travel ball helps you develope the skills needed to play at a high level with a great supporting cast. ? hs ball gives players a chance to take a leadership role and take the hs team to its potential. ? ?in hs ball you have to make the team in a competetive tryout. ? let the travel ball coach sit a player after the $$$ ?has changed hands and there will be hell to pay. ?

The negative things said about hs in this thread exist in travel ball just as well. ? Almost every travel ball coach thinks they are a hitting instructor, ? just stand behind a dugout at any tournament this spring and listen to the expertise being displayed. ? ?I have more than once heard a travel ball coach tell a pitcher to change the mechanics that they have worked on for years. ?

The bottom line the two, ?travel and hs, ? work together to make a complete experience for players. ? There are many hs teams that would consistently compete in travel tourneys and there are travel teams that shouldn't exist, ? and not because of the players either. ? ?And what is wrong with a little press? ? We sure see enough of it on this forum, ? ?see incoming freshman, ?any bigtrain post, ? ?and ?tourney results posts. ?

Travel ball and hs ball can be good or bad we the participants, ? players, ? parents, ? ?and coaches, ? decide wether it is a good or bad experience by our attitudes and actions. ? ?

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

hitter23, my daughter DOES play on a perennial powerhouse high school team (3 DI state titles in 7 years) and STILL the college coaches NEVER asked about high school ball.
All they cared about in terms of softball was what she had done with her summer team!!! Heck, until they got her transcripts, I doubt they even knew where she went to school!!! They just knew she was from Ohio.
BTW, is Donnie Baseball the successor for J.Torre??

 

[default]

Re: "HIGH SCHOOL", more important than emphasized!

Bigtrain,

its looking that way, as much as i love the HITMAN, i think we'd be better off with Girardi as the next skipper.
What do you think about Bernie, should he retire or keep hanging on?