Higher umpire pay, higher tournament cost and higher fees

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Tournaments should be run as a means of getting teams playing time at a reasonable price. They should not be run for the sole purpose of profit. Of course, costs must be covered and some should be left over for organizations who finance other teams. Umpire fees are the main cost but a necessary cost.

In the past, I have run tournaments at a very reasonable price and also ran a "Free" tournament. There were gate fee's charged, $3. However, IMO a reasonable gate fee is the way to go. The $0 entry fee draws teams, the more teams available raises concessions and the gate fee covers tournament costs. Quakerman has also tried to offer low cost tournaments

Any TD who tells you that there needs to be $400-$500 entry fees to break even or show little profit is wrong. Greed is causing a downfall for youth sports. Offer the basics, charge the minimum and give memories to the kids!

 

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Like our friends with the Hawks orgainization, we too based our player fees off of average cost of last year's tournaments. We are quickly finding out that another fundraiser or two will be manadatory for our girls - The last thing we want to do is go back to the parents for more money to cover tournament costs. Maybe the way around this is to bring up an old post on "California Style Friendlies". I figure if we add one or two of these in we could get some good game action for a portion of the cost.

 

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I respect you Edge.. you know I do. I've never charged a gate fee... until this coming Sunday where we are charging $2.00 for the benefit of the Park to help buy Hollywood style bases.. not my pockets,

Gate fees are a necessary "evil" in reality. That fee is used for the extras more often than not.. diamond dry comes to mind at 12.00 a bag when you have to used it. Got 8 fields going.. 10 bags (or more) a field to get up and going again.. just to see it rain again and more diamond dry has to be used again.

Stuff isn't cheap, is it Edge ?

 

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Friendlies are great... except 95% percent of the tournament in Ohio...if not more.. is organizational events to raise money. That's where the " I'll play in yours if you play in mine" comes to my mind.

 

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And who is going to get qualified if you don't play in other events besides "friendlies" ? Or if you aren't good enough to qualify in the earlier part of the season and have to wait hoping for a passed down berth.

 

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Edge, I know that is a popular notion in the age of "Obamaism" where capitalism is evil and profit is bad. However, in probably 98%+ of the tournaments, the ONLY people leaving with money in their pockets are the umpires. Any profits made on a tournament by an organization isn't kept by the TD. It's dumped back into the organization FOR THE KIDS. The tournaments we run make some money, but 100% of that money DOES NOT go into anyone's pocket. It goes back into the kids via equipment, training, facilities etc. All of our helpers are volunteers. NO ONE IS GETTING RICH FROM THIS....In fact I would be much richer if I didn't help. Just because you run a tournament doesn't mean you are a Gordon Gecko.

 

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Derek, George sent you the best he had and called me when he looked like he was going to have to use "others" and I sent you the best I had... even too the point that a certain age groups begged for them to do the Sunday games as well. Not one complaint about umpires.

Good umpires do their job.. because they realize they are there to do a "job" and getting paid for it.

My umpires are MUSTY APPROVED... ain't that right MUSTY ? Can I use that in the OFC section for umpire associations....lol

Quakerman,
I have been blessed to have good umpires from from the ASA and USSSA tournaments that I have run over the years. I could not ask for any better group than the USSSA staff at the last Hawks tournament. First class all the way and I tried to take care of you all out of appreciation for what you do and the good job you all did. I can promise, I will look your crew up on all future tournaments we run.

As an organization, our tournaments have not been about making money so much as a discounted (maybe even a free if you want to call working two days to run a) tournament for our teams to play in close to home.

I do not want to hijack the thread and argue umpire worth though. I know it is not an easy job but should they get mandated raises in this economy is the main question?

 

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Edge, I know that is a popular notion in the age of "Obamaism" where capitalism is evil and profit is bad. However, in probably 98%+ of the tournaments, the ONLY people leaving with money in their pockets are the umpires. Any profits made on a tournament by an organization isn't kept by the TD. It's dumped back into the organization FOR THE KIDS. The tournaments we run make some money, but 100% of that money DOES NOT go into anyone's pocket. It goes back into the kids via equipment, training, facilities etc. All of our helpers are volunteers. NO ONE IS GETTING RICH FROM THIS....In fact I would be much richer if I didn't help. Just because you run a tournament doesn't mean you are a Gordon Gecko.

Ringer, I understand that and by TD I meant the organization. Most of the time the profits do go back to the organization for the girls. What I am saying is that the organizations often expect to pay for their entire seasons with the profits. There is alot of profit in tournaments.

Ringer, I would love to sit down and talk to you sometime. i know we could share some interesting stories.

 

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Ringer, I resent having words like Obamaism thrown at me.

 

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Rumor has it that umpires are getting a raise again this year. Anyone that has looked in to tournaments for the 2010 season can see the average tournament cost is going up as well. Softball organizations set their fees based on cost, so fees are either going to go up or orgs will lean more on sponsorship and fund raising.

Questions:
1 Why would umpire cost go up now? (are they?)

2 Is this why tournament costs are going up?

3 Does this open up avenues for (lesser known) sanctioning bodies with cheaper tournaments?

4 Where do the entry fee hikes stop?

My take;
As a parent, coach, org. board member and tournament director I may be biased.
A big part of entry fees are based on umpire costs. Don't get me wrong umpiring is not an easy job but I believe it pays pretty well. With the economy the way it is, my boss would laugh at me if I asked for a raise at my job (actually everyone took pay cuts). If there is a shortage in umpires due to the amount of tournaments, I would think that some of the 10% of unemployed Ohio workers would be interested in umpiring. Don't get me wrong putting on a blue shirt does not make one a good umpire, it does take skills to be a good ump. In the end the last thing any family needs is to pay more money for fees in this economy.

It may not seem like much but last year's avg tournament was around $350 and this year it seems to be at least $400. If you play in 10 tournaments that is $500 extra paid this year per team.

I am a big fan of ASA and USSSA and I respect their product, but.... If cost continue to go up it would be irresponsible of me not to look at alternatives. I have never entered a team in an IFA or NAFA tournament but that may change if they can offer some competitive tournaments at a cheaper cost to the org/parents.

Other than the questions above I was wondering what others thought about this? It would be nice to hear from all sides parents, orgs, players, TDs, sanctioning bodies and umpires. What do you all think?

Who says umpires are getting an increase and what are they saying the new rate will be?

 

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Like our friends with the Hawks orgainization, we too based our player fees off of average cost of last year's tournaments. We are quickly finding out that another fundraiser or two will be manadatory for our girls - The last thing we want to do is go back to the parents for more money to cover tournament costs. Maybe the way around this is to bring up an old post on "California Style Friendlies". I figure if we add one or two of these in we could get some good game action for a portion of the cost.

I like the friendly idea and we are going to discuss this as a board next Tuesday. We will all still pay certified umpires and it allows us an opportunity to control our own destiny. If I can play three friendly games for $120 and choose the competition that I want to play....then why not??? The goal is to better our players for the lowest cost to our parents=value! I would like to talk more about this in another thread for sure. I think our board will be all for it!

 

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Who says umpires are getting an increase and what are they saying the new rate will be?

Questions:
1 Why would umpire cost go up now? (are they?)

IDK what they are going up to just a rumor I heard about when asking about the avg cost of tournament's going up. Quakerman said USSSA are not can anyone speak to the ASA? Will ASA be going up?

Side note: As a TD I can pay an umpire whatever I want over the minimum. If there are competitive tournaments on the same weekend as mine, I can choose to pay umpires more than the going rate to pull them in. I am OK with that but a higher mandated rate

 

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I like the friendly idea and we are going to discuss this as a board next Tuesday. We will all still pay certified umpires and it allows us an opportunity to control our own destiny. If I can play three friendly games for $120 and choose the competition that I want to play....then why not??? The goal is to better our players for the lowest cost to our parents=value! I would like to talk more about this in another thread for sure. I think our board will be all for it!

Why not just buy t-shirts, throw down some cardboard bases and get new chicken wire backstops? Cut costs to an absolute minimum. Friendlies are good for preseason and fall.

 

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My guys aren't taking a raise... I guarentee you that , Derek. George is lucky as he has some wonderful umpires who are good because they work hard. Bob in Beavercreek uses them as well. I talk to him all the time and he is seeing what I am seeing.

The "other" umpires with attitudes of "you should be glad I am here" is finding an attitude change. Especially around us as I refuse to use them. He is getting to that point as well because we work together.. quite well. He's a friend to the end.

These "others" are searching the net finding out of town work now...lol

I can't tell you how many umpires cross over, how many go out of town for work at events in West Virginia and Columbus, Indiana, Lexington and even Chicago to do games from around here. I know many 3 man crews that go out of town a lot.

What hurts sometimes is when Dayton (men's), Beavercreek, Harrison and somewhere else is having an event .. all at the same time and the scramble for umpires is tremendous. I've done games in Harrison, drove to the Outcast tournament in Kettering.. then drove back to Harrison and do the 2 am rain delayed games. Go home shower. Sleep an hour, go to Dayton by 7:30 and do three again and drive to Harrison to finish the tournament,,,, just because we are low with umpires.. quality umpires.

Just wait in three years when some of these guys quit umpiring. I've only got a couple more I want to do myself... then I'm done.

 

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The cost for unpires have also gone up.

Equipment costs:

Shirts- $45
Plates Shoes- $100-200 per pair
Pants- $60+ not including tailor costs
Jackets- $100+
Chest protector- $100+

If an umpir does more than 1 association than you have association fees of aprox $45 per assoc.

most umpires are in at least 3 associations 3 X $45= $135 per year

Gasoline prices are up.

My first year as an umpire cost me $800 just in equipment and fees.
(I umpired 26 games before I paid for my fees and equipment)

Every year I buy a pair of pants as well as a shirt $125 total plus fees $135
(I umpire 17 games to break even every year after)

That does not include new plate shoes new chin guards ext.....

This year in High School they changed the uniform. So in order to do high School I will need to purchase a new shirt as well as a new jacket not including any other equipment that needs to be replaced.

I umpire because I love the game not to supplement my income. If I make some $$ great but it is not my drive.

 

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I'm confused. How is a true double elimination tourney offering a 3gg? I thought a true dd tourney was 2 losses and you're out......

Len

Len,

You are correct this would not be a true double elimination. I have seen this in the past were a 0-2 team will get a third consolation game against another 0-2 team. Not much to play for other than an extra game against what should be equal competition.

My opinion is there would have to be a seed meeting to consider teams strengths to be a legitimate double elimination tournament.

 

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Derek: My guys don't do USSSA games in 2010. We are only doing ASA and "wildcat" (non sanctioned events) tournaments...

Now, here is something to think about and this is a serious issue for the people who control friendlies.

Insurance and saving yourself from lawsuits in a sue happy world. Teams show insurance and that is fine being a non sanctioned event... then the umpires are not insured.

But, here is a plus on that issue. Many HS and college umpires are what we call "all sports insured" or have a waiver for them to sign.

Many schools or parks where you play require "site insuarance" and if I was runnning a friendly.... I'd have it. Especially if I was running many of them.

 

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In the not too distant past true Double Elimination tournaments existed. Its from my experiences that the currect pool play format came from the girls fastpitch community due to the fact there weren't alot of teams. With the extended travel, teams wanted more than the possibility of 2 games and done.

Double elimination offered the guarantee of a fair "Blind Draw" to form the brackets. Low costs, usually $125 - $150. Larger fileds of teams and lowere costs for everyone. Of course the major drawback is a long ride, play two games and go home!

 

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Derek: My guys don't do USSSA games in 2010.

Now, here is something to think about and this is a serious issue for the people who control friendlies.

Insurance and saving yourself from lawsuits in a sue happy world. Teams show insurance and that is fine being a non sanctioned event... then the umpires are not insured.

But, here is a plus on that issue. Many HS and college umpires are what we call "all sports insured" or have a waiver for them to sign.

Many schools or parks where you play require "site insuarance" and if I was runnning a friendly.... I'd have it. Especially if I was running many of them.

Good tips Tim! We got the site insurance for the last tournament and unfortunately it cam in handy.

I would not want to do friendlies to have a rec type event just the opposite. This is not toward you Tim but I do not want that to spin out of control. If an org or team host a friendly they can choose the teams they want to play unlike in a tournament or league where they can not.

Where will your guys be if not in USSSA this season?

 

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We have had offers of Zanesville, Coshocton, West Virginia, Ashland, KY and here in Goshen I hope. (Doom and Lasers events)....

After 26 years of doing USSSA and trying to help at a Cincinnati park getting their umpire situation better... I don't take backstabbing out of Columbus very well.

They can use the "others" now....lol George is still USSSA of course. I told him I wouldn't steal his umpires if he needed them on a certain weekend...lol

Site insurance comes with sanctioned events, of course. Like you said Derek, Sadly it came in handy.

My guys/gals loved the way you and your organization treated them .... but if you go USSSA event... they will not be available.