Hitting and Hitters Discussion Hitting: Batting beam drill

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great points Len
nice to see that you have some ideas you can call your own

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Thanks coach. I, like you and a some others here are just tryin' to keep it real.

Len

 

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Since I posted this I have looking at this drill in the other softball and baseball hitting sites and it looks like this drill has fell out of favor as a teaching tool. The good news out of 14 college hitting camps we have been at, this was the only college left using this tool. They were not teaching balance but squishing the bug on the back foot with the narrow 2X4. As Len posted this will just get someone hurt, being this narrow. . The kids were all falling off from 4 " up in the air . When you look at college Team BA, I like to look at results and who really knows how to teach hitting.

 

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I do not use a balance beam, however it is an awesome tool to work on balance.

 

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What did you learn from not using them?

Didn't learn anything from not using them, and although I feel balance is a very important aspect in hitting, I no longer feel having an athlete swing off a 2x4 while trying to stay on the beam is beneficial. The reason they are not balanced in the first place has alot to do with there basic mechanics, which is amplified on a beam, but does little to correct the problem. I stopped using them long before I started working with Hitter. And further, am I really going to be able to teach balance on a 2x8 or 2x10 beam. Seems to me to defeat the whole purpose. Most girls I know could stand on a 2x10 for hours on end and not fall off.

Why did you use them in the first place?

I started using them 10 years ago when I first got into coaching softball because I came acrossed it in a book I had read, and it seemed like a good drill to break up the monotony of hitting off the tee. It had little to do with me trying to teach balance or proper hitting mechanics, it just entertained the girls at practice.

What flavor Kool Aid were you drinking?

Not a big fan of koolaid now, its hard on the teeth and my midline, that is already ever growing, but I do favor fruit punch if I'm making it for the kids.

Why are you still holding on to them?

I still have them because you never know when you may need a good 2x4 around for a project. Right now it's being used as a coat rack, so I guess they do have there benefits, and it is hard getting rid of something old and outdated.

 

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Len you brought up a good point about stepping in a direction we term line of force. I have taken a piece of chalk and drawn a line on my astro turf and let them see visually where their foot is while hitting. I have also cut up strips from an old bath mat and lay it on the ground as a visual also and it works.

It is funny that at some colleges clinics they still use a 2 x 4 and at those clinics our kids have challenged the players or coaches running the station as to not being able to feel as powerful with the heel up as when down.

Using a 2 x 6 or a 2 x 10 would help especially with the girls as they could probably engage the heel because of shoe size...so why use an elevated platform if you could teach them to have balance with out it and being on the ground.

We explain once we have made our stride we could field or throw or hit from that same balanced position.

Everyone is quick to point out it is for balance. Balance for when standing there which is static or dynamic balance when they are actually swinging or performing their athletic movements?

How we teach balance is bending at the waist and softening the knees next in that sequence. What you will usually see especially with girls is once this is done they become more up right with their back and cancel out the core because of it.

Now repeat and put a bat right under their butt cheeks and they will feel like they are sitting on the bat and that is incorrect. Now repeat and ask them to allow the knees to go more towards the toes and they will not be feeling like they are sitting on the bat.

We did a clinic over the weekend in Warren Pa. Many of the girls play more than one sport and some of the girls who play basketball looked like they were sitting on the bat after trying to get balanced. One of the dads said this is how they were taught by the basket ball coach to guard. We pointed out to watch their head as and use it as a reference point to a line on the wall. Their head lowered when they sat on the bat. Then our way and they stood taller and were able to move quicker because the core was still engaged.

The kinesilogist term it sequential core loading and the certified trainers term it hip hinge angle. The dad said we are going to have to talk to the trainer and coach as we see the difference and the players are quicker and their swings are more powerful now.

Originally Posted by Lenski
Easy now....I was just (kinda) kidding around. Why must we use a hammer? Why must we have the hitter walk around the plate? Why must we use a tee? Why must we use the Whip-Hit? Why must we reverse hands....etc? To teach a certain discipline.

If the above is a question. We use the hammers to show how the wrist actually works as a hinge as does the elbow and that the forearm is used as a lever. I do not hit balls with a hammer as the only thing I am demonstrating is the grip and wrist action. I do not want them hitting balls as visually and mechanically the action of the forearm and release is not the same as when using a bat or WhipHit.

I have made a nail simulator that is vertical and another that is horizontal that mounts to a wall. We go from the hammer to the one like I made for Don and then the bigger one to show and demo the relationship of sweet part of the bat and hands inside the ball concept. If you have ever seen Don use the small hammer on RVP, I made that one and the larger ones he used while at Detroit and they used them in BP and hit home runs with it. I made them at 26, 27 and 28 inches respectfully for the sweet spots of 34, 33 and 32 inch bats.

He also used the WhipHit proto types as I made them for him also in 2004.

The face the fire drill is performed in a sequence with drills that culminates with the teaching of weight shift and momentum and most who have been to a clinic would understand why we do it that way after using the big zone.

The reverse top hand is done again in a sequence to demo girls especially give up at contact and fold the arm and either hit their shoulder or finish between the shoulder and neck sharply. For many girls this is the first ime they have ever achieved extension and actually felt it.

Every drill should serve a purpose and we have found other ways that in our opinion get the point and feeling across sooner. As we say see it , feel it and fix it.

Most MLB players still swing with warm up bats that actually decrease bat speed as the studies have indicated and they still make more money than us combined. Would you want your daughter to do it?

Thanks Howard

 

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Originally Posted by Lenski
Easy now....I was just (kinda) kidding around. Why must we use a hammer? Why must we have the hitter walk around the plate? Why must we use a tee? Why must we use the Whip-Hit? Why must we reverse hands....etc? To teach a certain discipline.

If the above is a question.

Nope, it was not a question. I was just trying to make the point that many different tools are used to teach certain disciplines.

Len

 

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Most MLB players still swing with warm up bats that actually decrease bat speed as the studies have indicated and they still make more money than us combined. Would you want your daughter to do it?

The reasons a MLB hitter warms up with a weighted bat is to stretch the muscles, release tension, and intimidate the pitcher, not in the hopes of increased bat speed. You have been misinformed pertaining to the reasoning of the weighted bats in the on-deck circle.

Len

 

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I saw this drill for the first time at my dd's practice. She picked it up in no time and was driving the ball like I haven't seen in a long time. She went from rotational to what looks to be a hybrid of a rotational/linear swing. All I know is she's driving the ball, making better contact. She may not be a power hitter, but this swing seems to work with her speed. She may have that heel in the air, but after contact, the weight is already on the front foot to drive off of to go to first.

 

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Well I can tell you that the best hitter ever in Female Fastpitch Softball, And probably the most sound hitter the world has ever seen Crystal Bustos refers to Howard Carrier as her hitting coach. So I guess my advice to you will be, do what ever HITTER says to do because he knows more about hitting then the rest of us combined together.

For sure. I have seen it in action. Last 2 years my DD was with the Static Black 12u and the Static org is Howard Devotees. They taught it to my DD. Double digit scoring was the norm more then the exception for that team. At Sluggerfest we won scoring 70 some runs only giving up 13. The Static just had an indoor tourney they won in 4 games scoring 48 runs giving up only 2. My DD played with her new team a couple weeks ago at Sinclair College and in 3 games she had 2 triples, 1 double, 1 single and 1 walk. She will bend at the waist then at the knees whether she is at the tee, cage or plate.

 

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The reasons a MLB hitter warms up with a weighted bat is to stretch the muscles, release tension, and intimidate the pitcher, not in the hopes of increased bat speed. You have been misinformed pertaining to the reasoning of the weighted bats in the on-deck circle.

Len

I do not know about being misinformed however I try to stay informed as to what effects bat speed and not try to do drills or use equipment that would reduce it.

You may or may not find it interesting.

Thanks Howard

Note: This is just a part of the study and not the complete article!
CONTRIBUTING FACTORS FOR INCREASED BAT
SWING VELOCITY
DAVID J. SZYMANSKI,1 COOP DERENNE,2
AND FRANK J. SPANIOL
3
1Department of Kinesiology, Louisiana Tech University, Ruston, Louisiana; 2Department of Kinesiology and Leisure Science, University of Hawaii at Manoa, Honolulu, Hawaii; and 3Department of Kinesiology, Texas A &M University?Corpus Christi,
Corpus Christi, Texas

BAT WEIGHT: ON-DECK CIRCLE WARM-UP
Five baseball studies have investigated the effects of warming up with various weighted bats in the on-deck circle on bat swing velocity (14, 16, 21, 33, 44). Each of these studies used different weighted bats, which are shown in Table 1, before swinging a ??standard?? (850.5 g, or 30 oz) bat (14, 16, 21), a ??normal?? (893.0 g, or 31.5 oz) bat (33), or a ??standard?? (963.9 g, or 34 oz) bat (44).

The overload devices that were used in all of these studies were 474.9-g (163/4-oz) donuts ring, a 793.8-g (28-oz) donut ring, a 907.2-g (32-oz) air resistance Power Swing, a 113.4-g (4-oz) Power Sleeve, a 963.9-g (34-oz) weighted bat, a 1360.8-g (48-oz) wooden bat, and 6 aluminum lead bats weighing 1190.7, 1275.7, 1360.8, 1445.8, 1564.9, and 1587.6 g (42, 45, 48, 51, 55.2, and 56 oz), respectively. The lighter bats in these studies weighed 272.2, 340.2, 652.0, 708.7, 765.4, and 822.1 g (9.6, 12, 23, 25,
27, and 29 oz), respectively.

The results of 4 studies (14, 16, 21, 44), presented in Table 1, reveal that average game bat swing velocity was increased for high school, college, and ex-college baseball players after warming up in the on-deck circle using under- and overloaded bats within 6 12% (27?34 oz) of standard game bat weight (30 oz).

In addition, DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21) have concluded that very
heavy (donut ring and 1445.8-g, or 51-oz, bat) or very light (652.0 g, or 23 oz) warm-up implements had adverse effects (decreases of 2.2 m_s21, or 5 mph, slower) on standard game bat (850.5 g, or 30 oz) velocity.

Montoya et al. (33) have reported that swinging a light (272.2 g, or 9.6 oz) or normal (893.0 g or 31.5 oz) bat produced the highest bat swing velocities compared with a heavy (1564.9 g, or 55.2 oz) bat in the on-deck circle.

Southard and Groomer (44) have reported that after warming up with a weighted bat of 15.6 N (56 oz), standard bat (9.1 N, or 34 oz) moment of inertia significantly increased, and bat swing velocity significantly decreased.

It must be stated that the ??normal?? bat used in Montoya et al.?s (33) study and the ??standard?? bat used in Southard and Groomer?s (44) study were both overloaded bats because they were either 1.5 or 4 oz heavier than the ??ordinary standard high school or college?? game bat reported by DeRenne and colleagues (14, 16, 21). Southard and Groomer (44) have concluded that baseball batters should warm up with their respective standard game bats and that using a bat with a larger moment of inertia will reduce bat velocity and change the batter?s swing pattern. Montoya et al. (33) also suggest not swinging a heavy bat in the on-deck circle because it produced the slowest bat swing velocities.

These results and conclusions partly support the findings of DeRenne et al. (14, 16, 21), which suggest that players should warm up by swinging bats that are 6 12% of their standard game bat weight (30 oz) before game competition. Warm-up with appropriate-weight implements in high school and collegiate women?s softball has not been researched.

 

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I saw this drill for the first time at my dd's practice. She picked it up in no time and was driving the ball like I haven't seen in a long time. She went from rotational to what looks to be a hybrid of a rotational/linear swing. All I know is she's driving the ball, making better contact. She may not be a power hitter, but this swing seems to work with her speed. She may have that heel in the air, but after contact, the weight is already on the front foot to drive off of to go to first.

Is she right or left handed?

We teach on an outside pitch in certain situations based on the size of the hitter to get a quicker step out of the box however it is from the back foot not the front foot so I am confused.

Howard

 

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Is she right or left handed?

We teach on an outside pitch in certain situations based on the size of the hitter to get a quicker step out of the box however it is from the back foot not the front foot so I am confused.

Howard

She's right handed. She does a weight transfer during her swing. When the bat makes contact, most of her weight should be on the front foot, with the rest of the weight on the follow through. Once the follow through has happened, all she needs to do is explode out of the box. It's kinda like a pitcher with the front foot planting to explode, or a track runner at the starting blocks. My oldest also runs track, which made it easier for me to understand.

She was a squash the bug hitter. Couldn't get no power because all of weight was on the back foot. She had a very hard time picking up the linear/weight transfer thing. She's 10, and has played with 14U pitchers, and making contact; before, whiff.

John

 

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She's right handed. She does a weight transfer during her swing. When the bat makes contact, most of her weight should be on the front foot, with the rest of the weight on the follow through. Once the follow through has happened, all she needs to do is explode out of the box. It's kinda like a pitcher with the front foot planting to explode, or a track runner at the starting blocks. My oldest also runs track, which made it easier for me to understand.

She was a squash the bug hitter. Couldn't get no power because all of weight was on the back foot. She had a very hard time picking up the linear/weight transfer thing. She's 10, and has played with 14U pitchers, and making contact; before, whiff.

John

It sounds like her front (left) knee bends after follow through and she uses that left leg to explode to first base.....as it should be. That movement proves a nice forward weight transfer. Nice job! Does she have a hitting instructor or was this taught by her coach?

Len

 

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http://battersedgesports.com/video.html


New training tool. Its only $119



Straightleg

 

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http://battersedgesports.com/video.html


New training tool.



Straightleg

That is a piece s#!t

a good balance beam is a 2x6 with 2x6 cross supports (not to high)

promotes line of force and when batter is placed toward the end eliminates over striding.

you still have to enforce getting your hips through and not spinning just as you would on the ground.
only drawback for some is it is not marketable to sell.

 

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Boy do I agree, who would buy such a device! Who still teaches squish the bug? Love to see that kid try to hit an outside pitch with that form. Plus the hips are already rotating at toe touch, do to the front foot.

 

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Len,
Her coach taught her this.

 

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It sounds like her front (left) knee bends after follow through and she uses that left leg to explode to first base.....as it should be. That movement proves a nice forward weight transfer. Nice job! Does she have a hitting instructor or was this taught by her coach?

Len

Are you recommending that at contact the hitter should be hitting off of a flexed front knee? Which in turn would give them an advantage of being in a position to get out of the box quicker??? Maybe for a slap hitter but never for a line drive or someone that hits for power.

 

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Are you recommending that at contact the hitter should be hitting off of a flexed front knee? Which in turn would give them an advantage of being in a position to get out of the box quicker??? Maybe for a slap hitter but never for a line drive or someone that hits for power.

Shayne

So everyone does not think I am crazier than I already am!

What did Crystl show us as far as a quicker move to first on an outside pitch as a right handed hitter?

The back foot lifts and drives off the big toe and the weight shift automatically goes to the lead foot and blocks up against it and the back foot moves towards home plate giving the hitter more momentum towards first base. The ball was hit as the back foot heel lifted and turned slightly!

I looked at some clips and I see her back foot (right) moving to first and not the left as it appears she is driving from the left and picking up the right foot.

Howard

 

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Are you recommending that at contact the hitter should be hitting off of a flexed front knee? Which in turn would give them an advantage of being in a position to get out of the box quicker??? Maybe for a slap hitter but never for a line drive or someone that hits for power.

No. A hitter should make contact with a firm front knee. Right after contact, extension, and follow through, the front knee bends and the back leg fires to first base. Read my previous post a little closer......knee-bends-after-follow-through.......

Interesting, I don't remember seeing you post very often on prior hitting threads. Did you go to a clinic or two, watch some DVD's, learn a little something, and now feel empowered to try some critiquing on ole' Lenski? That's fine, but please learn to read and understand posts first, and fully understand why and why not to use certain tools and devices.

I'm waiting.........

Len