Pitching and Pitchers Discussion How Do You Approach Pitcher Rotation?

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Being a 16u coach,want to know how others approach this idea.I understand the quality of tournament may influence this but how do you determine it?
-Pool play-play them all and see how they fair.Maybe it is thier weekend-maybe not?
-Elimination-go with the horse and hope the others accept they are part of a team and should accept minimal time in elimination?
-Elimination-go with the horse that got you there and use whoever that weekends number #2 is a a reliever to rest the horse to start next game?
-Elimination-start with the horse and bring in the closer and if she is on,start her next game?
-If pitchers are equal in stats but errors ALWAYS come into play,is it fair to switch pitchers when defense is already set(not other players for those spots-just bad game) but errors/chemistry just kicks in?
-Stats not a decider?Runs given up,even if it is always errors but pitcher does fine.But then again,if pitching K's-defense would not matter!?

I went with the horse that got me there but still feel bad.Team did well,better than usual but I still feel bad.Team was very happy but I would assume the pitchers/parents were not happy with the lack of time in elimination.

 

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Usually I give each of my pitchers a start in pool and only pitch the "hot hands" in elimination play. As I tell all of my pitchers, I have no defense (or patience) for walks, so if she has walked 2 batters in an inning she can expect to come out. I would rather be beat than give away a game.

 

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As the "mother of a pitcher", I want the coach to do what is best for the team. Sometimes girls have an off day, sometimes the defense needs a change in lineup. Sometimes its darn hot and your pitcher is gonna drop if you don't pull her; heck - you just might want to see how the #2 does when you throw her into a pressure situation. There are all sorts of reasons why you might need to change out the pitcher. The parents job should be to reinforce the coach - we always told our DD (who was a #2 in MS this year) - "So what. Coach has his reasons & even though you might not like them you have to work with them" - your job is to be ready whenever that coach needs you & be a cheerleader when your on the bench" When she started doing that (and not sitting like a lump), she started seeing more playing time - and moved up in the batting lineup. She also learned a lot more about the game this year by talking to the coach & asking questions about calls she didn't understand.

 

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Love ur post, oder...more parenta need that mindset.

A bit off topic...i stole this idea from my younger dds coach...ive started letting my pitchers who are not pitching and on the bench call pitches for other pitchers during pool play occasionally with my oversight.
Were 14U. they freakin love it and it builds on the mental part of the game big time.

 

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My philosophy has always been to split the time on pool games, and then go on Sunday with whatever I think will get us the furthest. Depending on who we play first game on Sunday, that may mean going with the #1/hottest pitcher, or it may mean going with #2 or #3 and saving #1 for later games. If you're playing deep on Sundays, you can't expect to ride one pitcher (or catcher for that matter) the whole way anyhow. It is important that everyone on your team, not just pitchers and their parents, realizes upfront that you're going to go with whatever you think you need to go with on Sunday to get the team the furthest it can go. Unfortunately, no matter how many times you communicate this upfront, there are still going to be some parents who are only OK with it until they find out that the coach doesn't consider their DD to be the #1.

 

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The opposing team will determine who we throw in bracket sometimes the horse is not the right one and we will throw a girl that only throws high 30s low 40s with a evil change up. You face a 16u gold team or a good 16u A team and they can't seem to slow the bats down to hit her everything is foul, pop ups, or off the end of the bat. It can even be funny at times. But for the most part we will throw the Ace and keep the others in reserve.

 

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As a "pitcher's mom", it's not a parent's decision to make or to question the coach.
Our DD was the #3 on her 12U team and the #1 on 14U and 16U teams. She knows that she shouldn't be in the circle if she doesn't have it that day. She does get a little ticked if she is pulled when she's pitching well and getting K's but the team is making errors behind her. However, it isn't just the pitcher who wins or loses the games, it takes a team.
Fastjay, LOVE the idea of the bench pitchers calling the pitches. Sharing that with the DD.

 

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The opposing team will determine who we throw in bracket sometimes the horse is not the right one and we will throw a girl that only throws high 30s low 40s with a evil change up. You face a 16u gold team or a good 16u A team and they can't seem to slow the bats down to hit her everything is foul, pop ups, or off the end of the bat. It can even be funny at times. But for the most part we will throw the Ace and keep the others in reserve.

....high 30's to low 40's? at 16u? with and evil change-up? Please tell me- how slow is this evil change up?;&
All kidding aside, my DD's coach has decided in offseason to throw in a batting practice with balls at this speed just so they know how to adjust without screwing up their swings for the rest of the tournament.
But to get back on subject, you have to start the horse...

 

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H_oder and travelinmom ... those are great attitudes to have, and coaches appreciate it when parents take that approach. There are many factors a coach takes into consideration in setting the rotation and then making changes to the rotation or in changing out pitchers in the middle of a game. And sometimes the coach does make mistakes, but 99% of the coaches are at least trying to do what's best for the team. For example, sometimes a pitcher who is seemingly giving up unearned runs needs to come out because she is not hitting her spots, and/or because the errors are coming from hard-hit balls on pitches that are up in the zone. I know my DD struggled some with this while she was coming up through travel ball as well, but then as she got to college and has now started coaching herself, she really gets it. Sometimes a coach may not make a change in the middle of an inning when they probably should because of time limits. Changing pitchers in the middle of an inning eats up a lot of time and we are all suspicious of teams who are doing this when they're ahead ... there have been times when I have been up in such a situation and should have changed pitchers when she started struggling but I didn't do it because I was too self-conscious about the other team crying "bush". And then if you're behind and time is winding down, you're just praying that the pitcher can get through the rest of the inning so you don't have to eat up that time to change pitchers out. (Have I mentioned in about a dozen past threads about how I hate time limits!!)

 

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As the "mother of a pitcher", I want the coach to do what is best for the team. Sometimes girls have an off day, sometimes the defense needs a change in lineup. Sometimes its darn hot and your pitcher is gonna drop if you don't pull her; heck - you just might want to see how the #2 does when you throw her into a pressure situation. There are all sorts of reasons why you might need to change out the pitcher. The parents job should be to reinforce the coach - we always told our DD (who was a #2 in MS this year) - "So what. Coach has his reasons & even though you might not like them you have to work with them" - your job is to be ready whenever that coach needs you & be a cheerleader when your on the bench" When she started doing that (and not sitting like a lump), she started seeing more playing time - and moved up in the batting lineup. She also learned a lot more about the game this year by talking to the coach & asking questions about calls she didn't understand.

Great post- You are a coach's dream...need more of your type.

 

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Pool game scores generally determine elimination game seeding, so there is at least some strategy to consider from the very beginning in a tournament. If you "throw away" a pool game just to appease players, you're hurting the whole team. By doing so, the team could initially get seeded against a tougher elimination opponent, resulting in an early exit.

To me, it's all about what's best for the whole team. For parents, if you're concerned about playing time in tournament ball - this ain't Kansas! Playing time is EARNED, and if it isn't happening, take off the rose-colored glasses, because there's a reason. To a great extent, I admire and respect a travel coach who manages player rotation similar to a college team, where decisions are made based solely on which players will give the TEAM the best chance to win the game at hand. The next game may bring a different rotation, but it isn't because Suzy isn't getting enough pitching time.

I apologize for being so blunt, but I have always viewed REAL travel ball as a college prep softball program. If you're in it, you must have college intent. If you have college intent, it's time to learn to play by the same rules that the big girls play by - and grow some thicker skin.

Regardless of my opinion, coaches must decide based on team composition. There's no denying that team politics exist, and that must be considered. There is no cookie-cutter approach. Each game presents different challenges - are you facing a power hitting team, or a "run you to death" bunting team? Is it hot, cold, raining? Is you third base stud coming down with "female flu"? A ton of considerations, and like snowflakes, no two are exactly alike. Whatever a coach decides, parents MUST support that decision and roll with it. That is what TEAM is about.

 

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Usually I give each of my pitchers a start in pool and only pitch the "hot hands" in elimination play. As I tell all of my pitchers, I have no defense (or patience) for walks, so if she has walked 2 batters in an inning she can expect to come out. I would rather be beat than give away a game.

This is how my wife has handled her pitchers for years..............never any issues. But we have never had a clear #1. We do tend to have a pitcher break free from the pack but it usually has more to do with overall team performance (Defense is best when pitcher #2 is on mound....).

She has had complaints but she is soooo up front at tryouts that no one has the ability to complain much. The key is communication both ways.

 

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Sammy, I wish I could like your post a gazillion times.

 

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Mine has been pretty simple over the last few years but I have been luck w/ a 2-3 #1's so therefore I rotated the ball each game within the day. However the rotation may not have necessarily stayed the same on the next day. I would try to understand the opponent & match my girls strength against them appropriately. Also, I try not to have the same pitcher throw against a team in back to back days but sometime this cannot be avoided or she had their number so much I would throw her again.

 

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Pool game scores generally determine elimination game seeding, so there is at least some strategy to consider from the very beginning in a tournament. If you "throw away" a pool game just to appease players, you're hurting the whole team. By doing so, the team could initially get seeded against a tougher elimination opponent, resulting in an early exit.

To me, it's all about what's best for the whole team. For parents, if you're concerned about playing time in tournament ball - this ain't Kansas! Playing time is EARNED, and if it isn't happening, take off the rose-colored glasses, because there's a reason. To a great extent, I admire and respect a travel coach who manages player rotation similar to a college team, where decisions are made based solely on which players will give the TEAM the best chance to win the game at hand. The next game may bring a different rotation, but it isn't because Suzy isn't getting enough pitching time.

I apologize for being so blunt, but I have always viewed REAL travel ball as a college prep softball program. If you're in it, you must have college intent. If you have college intent, it's time to learn to play by the same rules that the big girls play by - and grow some thicker skin.

Regardless of my opinion, coaches must decide based on team composition. There's no denying that team politics exist, and that must be considered. There is no cookie-cutter approach. Each game presents different challenges - are you facing a power hitting team, or a "run you to death" bunting team? Is it hot, cold, raining? Is you third base stud coming down with "female flu"? A ton of considerations, and like snowflakes, no two are exactly alike. Whatever a coach decides, parents MUST support that decision and roll with it. That is what TEAM is about.

Female flu????
I hope you are referring to an overall bad attitude...........and not something else. As my wife says, that excuse is BS. Play the game, respect the game, respect your teammates, and play through it. I think only male coaches think that is a ligit excuse. All female coaches I have known find that excuse to be laughable. Me personally, I stay away from that debate..........I have a wife and 3 DDs.....

Bad attitude is handled by riding pine...........it is that easy.

 

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Female flu????
I hope you are referring to an overall bad attitude...........and not something else. As my wife says, that excuse is BS. Play the game, respect the game, respect your teammates, and play through it. I think only male coaches think that is a ligit excuse. All female coaches I have known find that excuse to be laughable. Me personally, I stay away from that debate..........I have a wife and 3 DDs.....

Bad attitude is handled by riding pine...........it is that easy.

You know EXACTLY what I'm referring to! Since I am male, I won't even pretend to know what that is like. BUT - I will tell you how my DD's female college coach approached it. In so many words, she said it is a FACT OF LIFE, and if you want to play the game you DEAL with it. You have a calendar, and there are remedies for making it easier. Somehow, someway, the best players in the game manage to deal with it, and if YOU want to play, so will you. Champions do not make excuses.

 

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You know EXACTLY what I'm referring to! Since I am male, I won't even pretend to know what that is like. BUT - I will tell you how my DD's female college coach approached it. In so many words, she said it is a FACT OF LIFE, and if you want to play the game you DEAL with it. You have a calendar, and there are remedies for making it easier. Somehow, someway, the best players in the game manage to deal with it, and if YOU want to play, so will you. Champions do not make excuses.

I know exactly what you are saying.
And my wife agrees with your DDs college coach......stop your whining and perform. She had some girls at 12U start acting like they needed to sit so when they said they were "better" she sat them some more.........they got the message.

 

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Pool game scores generally determine elimination game seeding, so there is at least some strategy to consider from the very beginning in a tournament. If you "throw away" a pool game just to appease players, you're hurting the whole team. By doing so, the team could initially get seeded against a tougher elimination opponent, resulting in an early exit.

You're right about using strategy. Pool opponents are usually a mixture of teams of different strength - strong teams that will win most games, weak teams that will lose most games and mostly teams in the middle that will win some and lose some. Depending on what kind of team you have and the teams in your pool, you should be able to set up a rotation that will likely yield an appropriate result for your team. Nobody should expect a team to "throw away" a game to appease players, but there should be a match-up that won't really hurt the team. If you really have players that you can't afford to play in pool games, they shouldn't be on your team.

To me, it's all about what's best for the whole team. For parents, if you're concerned about playing time in tournament ball - this ain't Kansas! Playing time is EARNED, and if it isn't happening, take off the rose-colored glasses, because there's a reason. To a great extent, I admire and respect a travel coach who manages player rotation similar to a college team, where decisions are made based solely on which players will give the TEAM the best chance to win the game at hand. The next game may bring a different rotation, but it isn't because Suzy isn't getting enough pitching time.

If a player isn't getting playing time, it isn't what's best for the whole team - maybe 90%, but not 100%. How does a player EARN playing time if they don't get a chance to play? That's a catch-22.

Starting a player is not a commitment they'll play the whole game. You can have them on a short leash with another pitcher prepared to take over.

Regardless of my opinion, coaches must decide based on team composition. There's no denying that team politics exist, and that must be considered. There is no cookie-cutter approach. Each game presents different challenges - are you facing a power hitting team, or a "run you to death" bunting team? Is it hot, cold, raining? Is you third base stud coming down with "female flu"? A ton of considerations, and like snowflakes, no two are exactly alike. Whatever a coach decides, parents MUST support that decision and roll with it. That is what TEAM is about.

I agree coaches have the authority to do what they believe is best for the team and parents need to respect that, even if they don't agree with everything. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say parents have to support "whatever a coach decides" because some decisions don't deserve it.

 

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Each team will be different depending on the pitchers, but most coaches use a rotation in pool play and then the "hot hands" in bracket play. DD was primarily a starter over the years, but in her last summer of ball this year she was primarily a reliever. It was difficult for her to get used to, but I told her the coach will do what's best for the team and to always be ready. She watched the other pitchers rotate starts while she relieved and it turned out to be a great summer. It was also good preparation for college where she won't always get the ball when she wants it.

 

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Great post socal dad! Some coaches might disagee with you bur its probably what most parents and players would appreciate during the season!