Pitching and Pitchers Discussion How Do You Approach Pitcher Rotation?

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At 16U and 18U I was privileged enough to have two pitchers that the whole team felt could get the job done so I rotated them every start with two girls that were secondary position pitchers.

I did have a few occasions in College Exposure tournaments where college coaches wanted to see a "specific player" and we made the changes at that time that needed to be made to accommodate their needs.....

 

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... If a player isn't getting playing time, it isn't what's best for the whole team - maybe 90%, but not 100%. How does a player EARN playing time if they don't get a chance to play? That's a catch-22...

True, but that catch-22 easily devolves into "If a player doesn't get a chance to play much, how do you expect them to get better?" Coaches who prescribe to the "short leash" theory generally have the most team success, but they STILL have to deal with the politics of play time.

Honestly, by this late in the season, coaches worth their salt know who has been working hard to improve their game skills OFF THE FIELD, and those are the exact players who should be given the chance on the field in games - albeit with that short leash in hand. I guarantee you nearly every player on a team knows who the slackers are, AND also who has been busting their butts. The problems start when some parents think their kids should "practice in games". IMO, they have it all backwards.

 

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Being a 16u coach,want to know how others approach this idea.I understand the quality of tournament may influence this but how do you determine it?
-Pool play-play them all and see how they fair.Maybe it is thier weekend-maybe not?
-Elimination-go with the horse and hope the others accept they are part of a team and should accept minimal time in elimination?
-Elimination-go with the horse that got you there and use whoever that weekends number #2 is a a reliever to rest the horse to start next game?
-Elimination-start with the horse and bring in the closer and if she is on,start her next game?
-If pitchers are equal in stats but errors ALWAYS come into play,is it fair to switch pitchers when defense is already set(not other players for those spots-just bad game) but errors/chemistry just kicks in?
-Stats not a decider?Runs given up,even if it is always errors but pitcher does fine.But then again,if pitching K's-defense would not matter!?

I went with the horse that got me there but still feel bad.Team did well,better than usual but I still feel bad.Team was very happy but I would assume the pitchers/parents were not happy with the lack of time in elimination.

Stop beating yourself up Chris! Your team got 6th out of 106 teams so I think you got it right in more ways than one. Congrats!

 

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True, but that catch-22 easily devolves into "If a player doesn't get a chance to play much, how do you expect them to get better?" Coaches who prescribe to the "short leash" theory generally have the most team success, but they STILL have to deal with the politics of play time.

Honestly, by this late in the season, coaches worth their salt know who has been working hard to improve their game skills OFF THE FIELD, and those are the exact players who should be given the chance on the field in games - albeit with that short leash in hand. I guarantee you nearly every player on a team knows who the slackers are, AND also who has been busting their butts.

True. Playing time is a coach's best tool to motivate players to work hard ON AND OFF the field. Reserves need enough to keep them motivated to work on their own or they lose hope. Sometimes the slackers are starters that got too secure about their place on the team. Coaches need to recognize those cases too and give them a wake-up call by sitting them when they're not putting forth their best effort.

The problems start when some parents think their kids should "practice in games". IMO, they have it all backwards.

True, but that doesn't mean coaches shouldn't use games to develop depth in their teams. Friendlies are an obvious example where playing time should be distributed evenly and players moved around to other positions. Coaches also have to keep from getting so consumed in winning every game/weekend that they lose perspective on the overall goal of preparing the team to compete at Nats - especially at the HS ages where the summer season is so compact and injuries are more common.

I kind of miss the pre-HS days where we were able to spend more time developing the entire team over the course of the year. One thing that really helps out here is we don't have MS ball, so the younger teams keep playing together straight through the Spring. We'd tighten things up a little in the Summer, including the friendlies, but we had a lot of line-up flexibility because everyone was proficient at playing several positions.

 

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SoCal I really agree with the "friendlies" concept, which I think is far underused in Ohio - even for the short HS season. The school system my kids attended does have middle school ball, from 4th grade through 8th. The thing I like about it most is no cuts are ever made - you show up, and you are on the team. Playing time is also closely managed, and each kid gets a decent amount. I think that was an excellent concept for that age/ability level. It was NOT competitive travel ball, and all coaches were generally inexperienced parents. But the kids got to play, and I think it helped the majority begin to develop a love for the game which stuck with them. There are a slew of kids who went through that program and wound up playing DI college ball, so I don't think they were any worse off for having the experience.

While there is a time to be vein-popping competitive, there is also a time to just play and have fun like the rec leagues do. Friendlies are more akin to the latter, the difference being that you have an experienced coaching staff using situational teaching - and we certainly need more of that!

 

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Just another voice chiming in when I did this last year at the 14u level. Besides the injuries that kinda hurt us each starter got a start in pool play (if possible). When sunday came around it was whom had the hot hand at times, but more than half put the ball in the aces hand.
Sometimes knowing a certain team that sees the stronger pitchers game in game out and is used to seeing a certain type pitcher, I would throw that 'something different' pitcher at them to throw them off.

 

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L.E.H. You bring up a very good strategy that's used in baseball as a closer. Fastpitch typically sees the "ace" pitch complete games, win or lose. Your post made me remember the many close college games I saw where the pitcher started struggling (usually the 3rd to 4th inning) and the coach just left her in too long. I think some coaches are thinking "just one more batter", or "just get us through this inning" without making that change, and it bites them. Rule of thumb: Make the change sooner rather than later. Kind of like not throwing your change-up until you HAVE to, which gives a different look and messes with batter's timing.

 

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I was thinking MS ball was 7th and 8th grade.

The ASA rec leagues here were very strong thru 12u - my DD started travel ball when she entered MS, 7th grade. There are 3 seasons of rec here - regular Spring league (14 wks), All Stars (min 8 wks) and Fall Ball (14 wks) - and they provided different levels of competition.

The regular Spring league placed everyone that registered (no cuts) on teams of 12, required everyone sit 1 inning before anyone sat a 2nd, bat the roster and teams use multiple pitchers. We had 3 girls on our last team (12u) that had never played before and we won everything - regular season, postseason tourney and... best banner! Most coaches made the mistake of focusing on their best players and paid minimal attention to the weak ones, some hoping they'd go away. We worked with everyone and quickly covered everything from the most basic skills thru how to play a game. By the last month of the season, our new girls were regularly making plays and getting hits - including some off the top pitchers. They were the biggest difference that made us better than the other teams.

All Stars were 2 teams, Gold and Silver, in each age group (8u, 10u and 12u) chosen from 8-9 teams - talk about politics and drama. They'd play 6 weekend tourney's - in separate divisions - and then the Gold team played in the district qualifer.

Fall Ball was 3-4 teams in each age group playing 8 weekly DHs against teams from other leagues and 3 tourneys. It had 2 divisions with the top one consisting of players from All Stars, mainly Gold. The highlight of Fall Ball was the end-of-season banquet where all the girls dressed up.

 

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SoCal - Our school combines K-8th into one facility. Technically, elementary is thru 6th grade, and 7th & 8th are middle school. For the purposes of athletics, there really is no distinct line between elementary and MS at the school.

Great story/post about your spring league!

 

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Pool game scores generally determine elimination game seeding, so there is at least some strategy to consider from the very beginning in a tournament. If you "throw away" a pool game just to appease players, you're hurting the whole team. By doing so, the team could initially get seeded against a tougher elimination opponent, resulting in an early exit.

To me, it's all about what's best for the whole team. For parents, if you're concerned about playing time in tournament ball - this ain't Kansas! Playing time is EARNED, and if it isn't happening, take off the rose-colored glasses, because there's a reason. To a great extent, I admire and respect a travel coach who manages player rotation similar to a college team, where decisions are made based solely on which players will give the TEAM the best chance to win the game at hand. The next game may bring a different rotation, but it isn't because Suzy isn't getting enough pitching time.

I apologize for being so blunt, but I have always viewed REAL travel ball as a college prep softball program. If you're in it, you must have college intent. If you have college intent, it's time to learn to play by the same rules that the big girls play by - and grow some thicker skin.

Regardless of my opinion, coaches must decide based on team composition. There's no denying that team politics exist, and that must be considered. There is no cookie-cutter approach. Each game presents different challenges - are you facing a power hitting team, or a "run you to death" bunting team? Is it hot, cold, raining? Is you third base stud coming down with "female flu"? A ton of considerations, and like snowflakes, no two are exactly alike. Whatever a coach decides, parents MUST support that decision and roll with it. That is what TEAM is about.

Ditto...Ditto...Ditto

 

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While there is a time to be vein-popping competitive, there is also a time to just play and have fun like the rec leagues do. Friendlies are more akin to the latter, the difference being that you have an experienced coaching staff using situational teaching - and we certainly need more of that!

I agree. My DD's team finally practiced this weekend after 9 consecutive weeks of games. At least half of both 4-hour practices was spent working on situations in preparation for PGF.

Saturday:
- Infield: Outfielders ran bases and coach hit balls.
- Outfield: A couple infielders manned bases while the rest ran bases and coach hit balls to OF.
- Full: 9 players fielded while the rest ran bases and coach hit balls. Players rotated between running and fielding.

Today:
- Marty Tyson came over with a couple of his players, a pitcher and a catcher, and ran a session on the proper way to hit with a plan to score runner from 3B with less than 2 outs. Batters hit off his pitchers while he called pitches. Marty emphasized the importance of executing the little things to win games with recent examples of teams losing in ITB.
- ITB: Off live pitching, batters practiced bunting runner over and then bringing them it to score within 3 outs.
- First and third: defense and baserunning.