How do you score a play when a runner advances because the fielder holds the ball?

[Bullbuck]

When scorekeeping, how do you score it when a runner advances because a fielder freezes and holds the ball? It seems like it should be an error, but the fielder didn't actually "do" anything. It's surely a bad play, I just don't know if it qualifies as an error.

And yes, one of 10U girls held the ball this past weekend and allowed a run to score.

 

[reagansdaddy]

If normal effort would have resulted in an out then I would score it as an error.

 

[Maxdad]

Need a little more info...was this a batted ball that the fielder just held? Would normal effort by the fielder have gotten the B-R out? If so, I would score a FC on the batter. Cannot charge an error on a "mental mistake".

 

[coachjwb]

Agree with Maxdad ... most likely a fielder's choice ... definitely not an error under any scoring guidelines I am aware of ...

 

[DanMaz]

anyone consider it a stolen base?

 

[coachjwb]

Without knowing exactly what happened, I guess we can't say for sure, but my impression was that this was on a batted ball where an infielder could have thrown out a runner for a force play and just held the ball ... that would not be a stolen base.

 

[Bullbuck]

Details: 10U game. Runner on first, less than two outs. Clean base hit to medium right field, a few feet inside the foul line (ugh). Runner on first made it to third cleanly (and should have got there on a standard first-to-third play). Third base coach waved the runner home and she kept on running when my right fielder held the ball (I think she froze thinking about getting the ball to the cutoff and maybe trying to get the runner out at first). The ball was eventually thrown to the second baseman, who turned and fired a throw home, which did not get there in time.

I believe the batter should be credited with a hit. The runner should have been forced to stop at third with a timely throw of the ball back to the infield. The batter went to second on the throw home. That's all easy. I'm just not sure how to score the girl getting home from third.

 

[DanMaz]

she stole home? lol

 

[snoman76]

If there were no errant throws then I would advance her as normal and give the batter the RBI.

 

[Maxdad]

If there were no errant throws then I would advance her as normal and give the batter the RBI.

I agree snoman76.

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

If there were no errant throws then I would advance her as normal and give the batter the RBI.

This is how I see it.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Details: 10U game. Runner on first, less than two outs. Clean base hit to medium right field, a few feet inside the foul line (ugh). Runner on first made it to third cleanly (and should have got there on a standard first-to-third play). Third base coach waved the runner home and she kept on running when my right fielder held the ball (I think she froze thinking about getting the ball to the cutoff and maybe trying to get the runner out at first). The ball was eventually thrown to the second baseman, who turned and fired a throw home, which did not get there in time.

I believe the batter should be credited with a hit. The runner should have been forced to stop at third with a timely throw of the ball back to the infield. The batter went to second on the throw home. That's all easy. I'm just not sure how to score the girl getting home from third.

Hard to tell without being there... Was the ball thrown to F4 in a cutoff position or F6 covering 2B? As described and going by the book, an RBI seems incorrect since the runner scored on more than just the hit. An RBI might be appropriate if running on an OFer like that is normal for the level of play.

 

[backstop09]

If normal effort would have resulted in an out then I would score it as an error.

No, definitely not this.

Not having been there, but based on what was described I would score the play as follows: single for the batter; runner advances to third on the single; fielder's choice on the "freeze" by the right fielder; RBI for the batter; runner advances by fielder's choice on a fielder's choice (throw home).

 

[flygirlsdad]

I say runner advanced to third on the hit and then reached home via steal.

 

[coachjwb]

OK ... these are definitely different facts than I assumed, and my first inclination is to also give the hitter an RBI since the ball was a hit and the runner scored on it especially if she just kept running ... but SoCal_Dad usually has his rules and such pretty tight, so it's making me think that if I thought it as an FC in the infield, that the same logic might apply on the runner advancing to home. The only stat impacted here though is whether or not the batter gets the RBI ... she definitely gets a hit, there is no error, and the run is earned ... so while it technically might not be an RBI, I would rationalize it that the runner did score on the hit, and the give the hitter the benefit of the doubt.

 

[backstop09]

I say runner advanced to third on the hit and then reached home via steal.

No.

 

[backstop09]

OK ... these are definitely different facts than I assumed, and my first inclination is to also give the hitter an RBI since the ball was a hit and the runner scored on it especially if she just kept running ... but SoCal_Dad usually has his rules and such pretty tight, so it's making me think that if I thought it as an FC in the infield, that the same logic might apply on the runner advancing to home. The only stat impacted here though is whether or not the batter gets the RBI ... she definitely gets a hit, there is no error, and the run is earned ... so while it technically might not be an RBI, I would rationalize it that the runner did score on the hit, and the give the hitter the benefit of the doubt.

It is possible to have an RBI on a fielder's choice. Since ATEC doesn't differentiate between a "routine" fielder's choice by an infielder that allows a runner to score from third from a "brain fade" fielder's choice like the one described by the OP, I don't see a better option than to score fielder's choice/RBI.

 

[flygirlsdad]

A stolen base occurs when a runner reaches a base they are not entitled to. If the hit did not entitle the runner to home plate, then it should be credited as a stolen base. A play we have all seen is the sacrifice bunt with the runner on first advancing to third. The bunt entitles the runner to advance to second via sacrifice. The advancement to third is a stolen base.

 

[backstop09]

A stolen base occurs when a runner reaches a base they are not entitled to. If the hit did not entitle the runner to home plate, then it should be credited as a stolen base. A play we have all seen is the sacrifice bunt with the runner on first advancing to third. The bunt entitles the runner to advance to second via sacrifice. The advancement to third is a stolen base.

Please tell me you're kidding. And if you're not, please hand someone else the scorebook and pencil.

 

[flygirlsdad]

Think of it this way. If the throw went home the runner would not be entitled to that base. Now that runner gets hung up off third eventually advancing home after a rundown. The runner was not entitled to home thus it should be scored a stolen base.