How do you score a play when a runner advances because the fielder holds the ball?

[backstop09]

Think of it this way. If the throw went home the runner would not be entitled to that base. Now that runner gets hung up off third eventually advancing home after a rundown. The runner was not entitled to home thus it should be scored a stolen base.

No, I won't "Think of it this way". I will think of it the proper scorekeeping, ATEC way. You can only credit a stolen base when the runner is leaving with the pitch.

 

[24GahannaLadyLions7]

22 posts for a scoring issue/scorebook issue for 10U... -- yea I know, I contributed too

 

[SoCal_Dad]

It is possible to have an RBI on a fielder's choice. Since ATEC doesn't differentiate between a "routine" fielder's choice by an infielder that allows a runner to score from third from a "brain fade" fielder's choice like the one described by the OP, I don't see a better option than to score fielder's choice/RBI.

ATEC says "One run batted in is scored for each runner who scores on a batter's ... d - fielder's choice," - the batter got a hit, not a FC. The FC that allowed the runner to score is unrelated to what the batter did, so no RBI.

 

[Lasers 04 Coach Mike]

ATEC says "One run batted in is scored for each runner who scores on a batter's ... d - fielder's choice," - the batter got a hit, not a FC. The FC that allowed the runner to score is unrelated to what the batter did, so no RBI.

Agree 100%

I was just about to post that someone should ask the pitchers dad what he thinks about his daughter getting credited for an earned run. Lol

 

[coachjwb]

Absolutely not a stolen base in either this play or the first to third on a bunt play!

I can live with the no RBI credited based on the play as described, though I'd want to see the instant replay just to make sure.

 

[flygirlsdad]

A runner doesn't have to advance to the next base on the pitch to credit a steal. Hence the term delayed steal. The first to third scenario was discussed in a previous thread that I bumped up in the forum. That thread also mentioned a player taking an unoccupied base after a hit and crediting a steal. A scenario from ASA/USA went like this on a bunt with a runner on second. Batter puts down a nice sacrifice bunt to move runner to third. Runner from second got a great jump and was rounding third as the throw was made to first. The throw from first back home was not in time and the runner from second scored. Can't be a fielder's choice because the play at home was attempted. Not an RBI as the sacrifice bunt was intended and did move the runner safely to third. The runner could not have advanced home solely due to the batters bunt. This was a steal of home.

 

[krrcoach]

Maybe Defensive Indifference... Definition per baseball-reference.com: 'Defensive Indifference is a play in the later stages of a game in which the defensive team, either ahead or behind by a large amount allows a player to advance a base without any attempt to put the runner out. The play may be ruled, by the official scorer'

 

[backstop09]

A runner doesn't have to advance to the next base on the pitch to credit a steal. Hence the term delayed steal. The first to third scenario was discussed in a previous thread that I bumped up in the forum. That thread also mentioned a player taking an unoccupied base after a hit and crediting a steal. A scenario from ASA/USA went like this on a bunt with a runner on second. Batter puts down a nice sacrifice bunt to move runner to third. Runner from second got a great jump and was rounding third as the throw was made to first. The throw from first back home was not in time and the runner from second scored. Can't be a fielder's choice because the play at home was attempted. Not an RBI as the sacrifice bunt was intended and did move the runner safely to third. The runner could not have advanced home solely due to the batters bunt. This was a steal of home.

Go ahead and think that but you're wrong.

 

[Bullbuck]

Agree 100%

I was just about to post that someone should ask the pitchers dad what he thinks about his daughter getting credited for an earned run. Lol

The pitcher's mom keeps score for me on Game Changer. She scored it as hit and earned run with the runner scoring as a result of the batted ball. Pitcher's dad questioned it. I'm not going to criticize whatever she scored the play if we can't get agreement here after THREE (3) pages of posts!

 

[coachjwb]

Tell the pitcher's dad it's an earned run no matter how the advancement is scored (hit, fielder's choice or stolen base) since there was no error! Sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose some ... e.g., 2 outs, pitcher makes an error and allows runner to get on, next 4 batters hit home runs ... 5 runs scored, no earned runs to the pitcher ... and I was a pitcher's dad!

 

[backstop09]

I agree. RBI or no RBI, the run is still earned.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

As a pitchers dad - I think the run SHOULD BE unearned (since it wasnt earned... Why arn't mental errors errors - still don't understand that )

BUT...

Earned Run and RBI - Runner advanced home on the throw to second -

 

[SoCal_Dad]

A runner doesn't have to advance to the next base on the pitch to credit a steal. Hence the term delayed steal. The first to third scenario was discussed in a previous thread that I bumped up in the forum. That thread also mentioned a player taking an unoccupied base after a hit and crediting a steal. A scenario from ASA/USA went like this on a bunt with a runner on second. Batter puts down a nice sacrifice bunt to move runner to third. Runner from second got a great jump and was rounding third as the throw was made to first. The throw from first back home was not in time and the runner from second scored. Can't be a fielder's choice because the play at home was attempted. Not an RBI as the sacrifice bunt was intended and did move the runner safely to third. The runner could not have advanced home solely due to the batters bunt. This was a steal of home.

I use NCAA softball scoring rules (i.e. Rule 14) since they are the most comprehensive ones that are still being maintained. The runner would be credited with a steal if they advanced because home was undefended (see 14.14.9 - similar to awarding a hit when no one covers first). I agree the bunt by itself is not relevant, however they can't be aided by the defense making a putout (see 14.14.1). Would she have scored if the defense hadn't thrown to first?

14.14 Stolen Base
As a general rule, a stolen base is not credited to a runner unless she was in jeopardy of being charged with a caught stealing if she was unsuccessful. A stolen base is credited:
14.14.1 To a base runner who advances to a base unaided by a safe hit, putout, error, force, fielder?s choice, illegal pitch, wild pitch, base on balls, hit batter, passed ball, interference or obstruction.
...
14.14.9 To a base runner who advances a base when the defense leaves a base undefended in mid-play. Statistically, a stolen base shall be charged to the catcher if she was involved in the play and charged to the ?defensive team? if the catcher was not involved in the play.
Note: When electronic scoring is used, ?defensive team? is entered into the program as a pitcher. In the event a stolen base is charged to the ?defensive team? or a run is scored by the base runner placed on second base in the tie breaker, it is recorded against ?defensive team? and not any other player.
A.R. 14.14.9.1: Following a base on balls, the batter-runner rounds first base and, noticing the infielders are not defending second base, takes off and safely attains second base. Seeing no fielder, the catcher makes no throw but instead holds onto the ball following the last pitch. RULING: Stolen base is charged to the catcher.
A.R. 14.14.9.2: Following a single to right field, the batter-runner rounds first base and, noticing the infielders are not defending second base, takes off and safely attains second base. Seeing no fielder, the right fielder makes no play but instead walks the ball into the infield. RULING: Stolen base is charged to the ?defensive team.?

 

[UFreak]

when scoring, you take into account the level of play, and expectations of those playing. It seems the Coach created an aggressive situation for the base-runner (meaning the runner did not do this on her own). Very likely (the 3rd base Coach) did this after a quick review of the situation....credit the batter with a hit, and an rbi....you cant assume a throw from the OF gets the runner. Now, in a more advanced game, maybe you score it differently. An 18u kid, makes the throw home, or gets the ball to 2nd to protect the other runner from getting a free base.