How many innings should a pitcher pitch

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I have a 14 year old on my team and her dad feels i have pitched her too much for her age. We played 2 games only that day and she did not pitch the full game for either one. Can someone guide me as to what i should say to this dad? Is there guidelines regarding this? Thanks. Anxious to hear from all!

 

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A dad that says his girl pitched too much????? That is a first! Sounds like he doesnt have a good grasp on pitching.
At 10u maybe innings would be a concern (if thrown alot). When you get to 12u,14u and on innings usually isnt an issue when throwing to much. Totally different in every way from baseball.

You will see teams ride a pitcher for several games thru the weekends. Maybe at the end of the season MAYBE a girl might get a tad tired out if overthrown, but it would take alot to be overthrown.
If the pitcher has a solid routine and throws (practice) during the week,then she should have no problem.

Id say you would not be in the wrong here. At 14u their would be a much bigger window for innings pitch for a pitcher!

 

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Thank you so much. I have coached many years but I thought I might have missed something. This pitcher is doing very well but I am afraid with Dad being sooo cautious he may hurt this girls down the line. I guess we will see when she pitches this year and as a Freshman her Dad tells the Coach he only wants her to pitch so many innings. Thanks again for your comments.

 

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Daughter has pitched for years and has pitched 3 entire 14u games back to back with no breaks throwing 217 pitches in those three games, and didn't miss a beat. If you have only one horse work her and develop the ponies in league play. The only time I have heard of a father wanting his DD to not pitch is when she is getting clobbered and he is embarrassed. Good pitchers get stronger as the day gets longer. I myself like my DD to get as many as possible (3 or 4 games per day and 7 to 8 on a weekend), while still developing the pony in less competitive games. Just remember if you need to work her in other positions she needs that also. This year DD is over 170 innings of play and that is 14u.

 

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4thegame is right on with his take. I've never seen a father get upset enless his dd is getting rocked on the mound. I let my dd go till she tells me she can't or I start to see fatigue set in. That usually takes awhile. She gets stronger the more pitches she throws. So she pitched in 2 games...neither complete...she should be fine. Enless there is something the dad is not telling you. This kid could be injured and he might be trying to make a case to pin it on you. Been there done that!! If you have another pitcher that can keep you in the games...throw her more. Next time don't throw his dd and you'll get a different responce!!;&

Mike

 

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Like the others, my first response was Wow! Complaining about too many innings! How rare.

I too think something else is at play with her - injury or getting hit too much. My DD pitching coach told us that my 12 year old could & should pitch 300+ pitches a day 5-6 days a week. Shouldn't be an issue.

That being said I did recommend once this year that her coach pull my DD. She had pitched much more that weekend than she was used to and I could see her fatigue, mental as much as physical. But that's an exception and again she was 12, not 14.
Doesn't seem like you were doing anything wrong here.

 

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i WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP! i JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE I DIDN'T MISS SOMETHING HERE BECAUSE I WOULD NEVER WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO INJURE, ETC A PLAYER SO NOW WITH ALL YOUR REASSURANCES, I WILL GO FORWARD FIRST, I AM GOING TO FIND ANOTHER SOLID PITCHER AND MAYBE PUT THIS FATHERS DD ON THE BENCH A LITTLE AND WAIT UNTIL HE COMPLAINS. I AM SURE IT WON'T TAKE THAT LONG. THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE AND HAVE A GREAT END OF THE SEASON. SEE YOU IN 2010

 

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I would ask if his dd is recovering from some kind of injury or has had some soreness. Aside from having a bad day on the mound that is the only reason I could think of for wanting to limit innings. When my dd is playing through an injury I may want her a bit limited to allow her to heal, but other than that I rather see her pitch all she can.

As a matter of fact, my dd threw all but 4 innings out of the 5 games in our first tournament of the season and all but 6 innings of 6 games at our second. At 16u that can be quite a workout. She was a bit sore after the second weekend, I don't think she could have kept that up all season. I sure did love watching her work, she had been fighting growth related injuries for the past two years and was finally healthy.

 

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I am surprised by the comments here. Many people are starting to realize that the girls are being over pitched and are speaking up.

Ask the same question at Heybucket.com.

No girl should be pitching back to back games nor be the only pitcher on the team. Over use injuries are very common.

I count pitches, just as I would with a male.

Strong pitchers need to strengthen their non dominant side, ice their pitching arm, keep it warm in between innings and rest. Playing a second and third position is also a good idea.

 

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While a solid mechanical fastpitch motion should allow a girl to throw a lot more pitches in a day than her male baseball counterpart, and while I don't totally agree with the statement that "no girl should be pitching back to back games" I would tend to side more with newtson on this issue, and be a little cautious robertk. There has been some growing evidence of overuse injuries in the sport, and I would think twice about throwing a young girl more than she or her parents are comfortable with.

You also can't assume that all girls have solid mechanics. And I also agree that its much more important to keep track of pitch counts than innings, especially at the younger ages where pitch counts can vary drastically by pitcher. I would be wary of a girl throwing more than 200 game pitches (plus don't forget warm ups) in a day. Icing and recovery time after games is critical as well. And don't only think of the arm and shoulder muscles, as the legs will tire as well and this could result in an injury as well, though I don't think that is too common.

 

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The answer should be... how many innings does it take to help the team? This must be a baseball relic. JMHO.

Many FP pitchers and COACHES know the proper mechanics. If any coach is involved with the girls and their pitching coach... that should be a non issue. I have been around too long not to know the difference.

 

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Dave leffew a very highly regarded pitching coach in Northeast oh has totaly changed his tune on pitchers pitching to much.He to used to think a female fastpitch pitcher could throw all day long and not suffer any serious damage to her arm but the number of serious arm problems he has seen over the last several years even in younger and younger girls (7-8 graders)even with great mechanics and talking with top pitching instructers all over the country seeing the same problem he now tells all his girls to not over pitch .One of the differences over the years are girls are now learning many more pitches than they used 15-20 years ago when most pitchers only had a fastball and change.Now they are twisting and rotating on pitches like Rise,screw,Drop and so on that are putting far more pressure on wrists,elbows and shoulders than used to be the case.

 

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Its hard for me to imagine that either I or my daughter would ask for her to be taken out of a game where her team needs her for anything short of an injury. And I know a girl can throw over 200 pitches in a day and suffer no ill effects. But with that being said, we also would not want her to be in a situation (only pitcher on a team) where she is likely to throw a lot of pitches day after day. I hope the game never evolves to either little league baseball pitching rules or MLB philosophies (i.e., no more than 100 pitches every 5 days), but you can be sure this will happen eventually if more players start to suffer overuse injuries.

 

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Concerning injuries, consider that no two individuals are physically built the same. Bad mechanics can also do a world of damage. You cannot lump every kid into a pool and say that X number of pitches will be harmful. It may be for some, while others see no ill effects at all. I think genetics, body make-up and strength issues have to be considered.

DD once pitched a 17 inning (finally won) game HS freshman year. Routinely pitched 2 games/day in travel tournaments = 6 games average weekend. Pitching three games nearly back to back 16u at Compuware probably got her the college ticket. Now going into her senior college year as a pitcher, and no ill effects yet. Although my grand kids will probably be born with rubber arms...

 

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Concerning injuries, consider that no two individuals are physically built the same. Bad mechanics can also do a world of damage. You cannot lump every kid into a pool and say that X number of pitches will be harmful. It may be for some, while others see no ill effects at all. I think genetics, body make-up and strength issues have to be considered.

That's a very good point!

 

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I was at a coaches clinic last year and this was one of the subjects that was on the agenda.

There seems to continue to be a rise nationally with injuries to pitchers at the High School and Collegiate level.
Studies concluded the areas of concern were:
Improper warm-up/stretching
Poor mechanics
Overuse (Lessons, practice, games)

Some injury areas included:
Nerve damage to wrist, hands and fingers
Joint pain in elbow, shoulder, wrist
Muscle and soft tissue damage to Bicep and labrum

Most pitching instructors and coaches that regularly attend clinics are aware of the study?s findings and the warning signs. They also pass the information on to their players, coaches and parents .
Most of the coaches/instructors that I have talked too are opposed to inning or pitch restrictions believing that if everyone is aware of the warning signs and parents, players and coaches are informed about the potential risk of injury from any of the above areas team trainers/orthopedics should see a decline in injuries to pitchers.

Additional information can be found on the study at the American Journal of Sports Medicines website and there are a few good postings on www.pitchsoftball.com

 

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I know I am a baseball guy and will take some heat for this, but I like the fact that in baseball you can't just develop (recruit) one great pitcher and be a very good, competitive team. I have only been around fastpitch for two years, but I have seen too many teams that are very good with their stud pitcher and average or below with anyone else. A great pitcher hides a ton of faults.

 

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I know I am a baseball guy and will take some heat for this, but I like the fact that in baseball you can't just develop (recruit) one great pitcher and be a very good, competitive team. I have only been around fastpitch for two years, but I have seen too many teams that are very good with their stud pitcher and average or below with anyone else. A great pitcher hides a ton of faults.

:yahoo: Yes you may get some heat; but you hit the nail on the head concerning a stud on an average or below team.

 

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This is what these girls work so hard for and put all the time in for, to go the distance. When my sisters and I played, you would have had to drag us off the field, we NEVER volunteered to go out or sit. And we definately never played too much!?! The more the better!! I've noticed a horrible trend that has gotten worse and worse since I've been in school. All these parents in an effort to give our children the things we never had, are turning our kids into a bunch of wussy cry-babies!! Don't you remember getting up on a Saturday, grabbing your glove, ball, and bat and going out and playing ALL DAY LONG? I do, just about everyday. If there was no one to play with, I'd roll the ball off the roof and catch it for hours. We were at the State tournament one year and we played 7 games in one day with our last being at 2:30am. We only had 2 pitchers and not once did I ever hear one say she was too tired or didn't want to pitch. I just wish people would let their kids be ball players and quit trying to turn them into a bunch of cry-babies!! Every year it seems there are more and more players who cry about everything. They strike out...they cry, they get out...If they don't play the position THEY want to...they cry, if they don't play enough...they cry, if they play too much...they cry. If the sport is too tough for you, hang up your spikes and go play sokker.

 

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I agree that as a society we are not as demanding of our kids as when we were growing up, but I wouldn't say that is the case with parents of athletes. If anything, we can be a bit too demanding at times.
With that said, no one is saying that we have a problem with babying our kids. The consensus today appears to be that we have more knowledge about overuse injuries and there are things that can be done and things to look out for that can minimize these long term effects. Softball pitching is not as damaging to the arm as baseball pitching, but there is damage to the body that can accumulate with time.
Our daughter now warms up slowly and gradually and makes sure her warmups are long and loose. She has also worked very hard to make sure she has good mechanics and understands what she is doing to keep her mechanics sound. She works at keeping her spins more in her wrist, and less in her elbow and shoulder. She also believes in icing after long pitching outings to keep the muscle inflammation down (both elbow and shoulder). In fact, her college trainer has all pitchers (and catchers) do full body ice baths after a long day (sounds painful).
There were two times in her travel ball experiences where she couldn't pitch. One was after a long day of multiple game pitching (Best of the Best) that ended in an extra inning thriller late at night where she didn't come out of the game and gave it her all for the win. (She also didn't ice that night.) The next day she couldn't throw. Probably wasn't the best for her long term health, but she did recover. The second time she didn't drink fluids during the day as her mom instructed, and she paid the price (heat exhaustion). She now listens to her body much better (and her mom).
I think that every pitcher is different, but all can follow some general guidelines that can help maintain their health (such as icing). One other key is to be observant. Look for good / bad mechanics, soreness, fatigue, etc. Know the athlete and how they respond to high pitch counts. And gradually increase the amount of pitching they are capable of as they get older. You can use pitch counts to track general trends, but I wouldn't recommend setting arbitrary limits on pitch counts like baseball does. I think CoachDennis's reply summarizes things well.