How to attract (good) coaching?

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This should be interesting, let's see if I get any takers. I am posing this question to non-parent coaches, or organizations that use non-parent coaches, or even what you may have "heard" about any organization's non-parent coaches policy. I may be treading on trade secrets here, but where do you find them? What compensation is offered, if any? And how much success has there been in these endeavors?

The organization that I have been part of has tried different approaches to attract these type of coaches, with mixed results. We have had volunteer parent coaches with mixed results as well. It would be nice if talented coaches would offer to coach a team that they have no dd on out of the kindness of their hearts, but that is usually not the case.

My intentions are to get an idea if there is a standard in compensation. (i.e. gas, hotel, per diem, salary, whatever) If someone is not comfortable posting amounts, thats understandable. I'm just looking for roundabout figures or ideas as a starting point. Please don't say "Organization X" gives the coaches $xxxx.xx a year...I don't want to get anyone in a jackpot. (unless you do it in a pm!)

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

 

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I find the whole bragging about "non-parent" coaches humerous. Many of these same "Non-parent" coaches also were "parent" coaches at one time. As a parent to me when my DD was looking for a team, I knew who the good coaches were and werent, the fact that they had a kid on the team didnt sway our decision one bit.

I've also learned to be careful when dealing with a "non-parent" coach, that doesnt have any kids of their own. They at times can lack the patient that parents obtain from years of living with kids lol.

IMO, any organization that limits itself to just non-parent coaches, is limiting themselves in the talent pool of coaches and players. Just look for good coaches, take your time, dont be lazy, if you don't know the coach applying to be a coach, do some research...don't fill the job with a warm body.

BTW Yes I am a parent coach in travel and a non parent coach in school ball. My attitude doesnt change and I bet if you came and watched me coach you wouldnt know which kid was mine. I learned from 2 of the best "parent" coaches out there, Wayne Baker (Lady Irish) and Dave Day (SGS magic-White)

 

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We have 2 non-parent coaches.

Right now we are paying compensation for any expenses they have coaching (gas, hotels, and food).

Ideally we would like to given them a salary. But here is the other thing. One is a pitching & hitting coach. And she is now booked with girls from our 5 teams paying her for private lessons. And that would not be happening if she was not coaching one of the teams. So she is already getting paid in a sense.


I have heard that some other orgs get the non-parent coaches paid by hosting clinics.

At the end of the day you need good/great coaches. Especially at the 10U and 12U levels.

So let me be blunt. IMO you need women who have played the game at some level (hopefully college but not necesary). I say this not because I am agianst men (being one myself) but that we want the girls to have female role models. And we want the girls to be able to get the "behind the scenes" information only a former player can give. And here in lies the problem. Most young women do not have the financial stability to give up the kind of time needed to be a coach and start a family, and work a job. It is asking a lot. While the 35-45 year old men are spending time with their DDs and are entering a time when they are hopefully reaching some stability.

So we are really focusing on fund raising to get a coaching fund. We are doing this outside the parents. Using our 501c3 and corporate sponsors to try to build this fund. Again, it is also our goal to create coaches as well as players. But as anyone who has gotten involved in running a team/org things change pretty rapidly. Ask me again in 6 months and my answer may be different.

We have had 100% success with the non-parent coaches BTW. Our only issue is retention.

Also, we do not run ads or put the word out. We wait until we meet or see someone we like and then we approach and ask them if they are interested. we seem to be finding 1 per year. So maybe in 5 years we will have a few more.............LOL

 

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Lots of Old Grandad

 

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I personally feel that there are not that many good coaches out there and that is the problem with attracting them. A team doesn't need just a single good coach, they need at least two and one that is in training at a minimum.

I do not mean to disrespect anyone, anyone that is willing to dedicate their time to the kids is alright in my book.

We have had better luck with parent coaches over the years, not that the non-parent coaches haven't been good too. It has just been our misfortune that a couple of our non-parent coaches have fallen victim to parental influences. We have non-parent coaches at our 16u & 18u level and they are the exception to our past experience.

We give our non-parent head coaches a stipend per tournament to cover their expenses and our parent head coaches dd play for free. We have done fundraisers every year, but all the money we give back to the families to help cover their expenses (in the past it was used to cover fees). I guess it might not be a bad idea to start a coaches fund. I would be afraid we might get coaches who are only in it for the $$ then.

Not sure what the correct answer is, wish I did because we turn girls away every year due to lack of coaches.

 

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I am one of the non-parent coaches in Doug's organization and, as Uber says, I was a parent coach at one time like most others. I came back partially because I love coaching and missed it the year and a half I took off, and partially because my college-playing DD was interested in coaching and asked if I would like to do it with her ... and it's been a great chance to bond with her and hopefully pass on a few things I have learned over the years.

Doug, I didn't even know about the stipend until long after we signed up, so you might have saved the organization some money there ... not that the stipend will come close to covering all of our expenses! I would not be so bold to suggest I am a really good coach, but I know I am in it for the right reasons, am organized and a good "manager", and I was able to assemble a coaching staff of 4 other people who know a lot more than me about some of the finer skills of the game. I think there are distinct advantages of being a non-parent coach both to the coach and to the families but, with that being said, I don't think that automatically makes them a good/better coach either.

I think what attracts good coaching is good organizations ... ones who ideally have some track record of success, have quality individuals running them well, and ones whose teams you have played against in the past and who showed a lot of sportsmanship and class.

 

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Uber:

You and I, being friends, will have to agree to disagree on the value of non-parent coaches. One thing we can agree on: that we were once parent coaches neither qualifies or disqualifies us as good non-parent coaches.

In our case, Ted gave up coaching his daughter at 14U, a decision we will never regret. But we did make a commitment at that point to pay it forward. After watching six years of quality fastpitch, I knew I wasn't qualified to be a fastpitch coach but I took steps to cure that, starting with watching Kobata live clinics and then Kobata and RVP DVDs. Then came NFCA Coaches College courses and in a moment of extreme insanity I eventually moved to a day in Howard's garage. I damn near died on him that day (it's true, as I am sure he will confirm). Now I am fortunate enough to help at the Carrier Bustos clinics. All this while I've been also been trying to absorb as much as possible from respected web sites regarding mechanics and regarding recruiting, ASA rules and tournaments, etc. etc. And I know that I am still only qualified to be an assistant coach.

Ted, who always had qualifications for coaching, has also been doing many of the things I describe above. This coaching thing is our passion and we spend a lot of time and money on it.

So, once we establish whether a coach is qualified, then I think there are some very strong points in favor of the non-parent coach. We generally are able to make decisions that are in the best interest of the team without 1) the threat that someone will say our decision is based on Daddy Ball or 2) the knowledge that we are sitting a top notch player because she is our DD and we are afraid of being accused of Daddy Ball. We can talk frankly with our players about their areas for improvement, without feeling that in the back of the player's head she's thinking "yeah you probably never have this conversation with your own kid". We are also probably a heck of a lot less emotional about any particular game because we don't have a DD out there on the field. And finally, when Ted makes recommendations to college coaches, he is free from any conflicts of interest (whether perceived or real) that might otherwise be caused by having a kid on the team.

Are non-parent coaches always better than equally qualified parent coaches? Of course not. When I say there are "points in favor" of a non-parent coach, I deliberately am not saying "points favoring" that non-parent coach over a particular parent coach. The Buckeye Heat organization has several outstanding parent coaches, coaches who are certainly far more qualified than I am. And I wouldn't call them "outstanding" if they hadn't mastered the art of being a parent coach, with all the drama that can entail. And I know a ton of parent coaches outside of the Buckeye Heat organization who have mastered the same.

I use the term "mastered" intentionally: to coach a team successfully (which includes not only wins but also the drama thing) while being the parent of a player involves both softball knowledge and teaching ability as well as amazing people skills and self-awareness. It takes someone who can indeed be characterized as masterful. My hat is off to all of those parent coaches I know who are pulling it off.

As an organization, the Buckeye Heat strives to identify and attract non-parent coaches who are equally qualified with the fine parent coaches in the organization.

In the end, if a family feels it has been burned in a prior experience based on Daddy ball, the fact of a non-parent coach may be the tie-breaker. But with the great parent coaching that you have experienced, Uber, it clearly wouldn't have much significance.

 

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Awesome discussion.

I totally agree that an org needs many good coaches. Some coaches are born and other are made. My wife is an awesome coach has been since she was 18 and coaching JV HS while in college. While I am really an assistant at best.

I think a good/great coach usually has a few things in there backround:

- has passion
- started coaching young
- were around really good mentors, or still have them around
- never feel they know it all, they are always looking to improve
- constant looking for opportunities to learn (DVD, coaching clinics, college clinics)
- I also think the best coaches have learned to not focus on winning, to get the players to buy into an effort and preparation that allows them to perform regardless of the situation thus freeing the players of the feeling of too much pressure, allowing them to focus on the task rather than the outcome

It is MUCH harder to find good coaches. And I have not found any correlation to parent vs non-parent coaches. I actually find it more difficult to wade through the parent coaches because they come with a ton of passion and you can be blinded by this at times.

 

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I am not saying non-parent coaches arent valued, they are. I have also been to Kobata clinics, have his DVD's, been to a ton of coaching clinics, I've taken Leon Woods RVP coaching certification, been to a ton of pitching lessons including many held by Doug Gillis, I've worked with slap hitters from Varsity all the way down to 9u, I probably watch or coach in 100+ fastpitch games a year, Been following Toledo Whitmer's fastpitch team since their first team in 1987 when my sister in law was a catcher and went on to Eastern Michigan,I ask a million questions to many of the vet coaches both on OFC and here in NWO, I've been ACE certified, BCI/FBI background checked, taken the CYO protecting youth course, fingerprinted, CPR/First aid certification.....this is not to send out my resume' but more asking a question why am I better coach when I coach my team without my DD on it, then when I coach my team with my DD on it? I'm not, I am the exact same coach, I keep track of playing time, I can tell you the amount of innings every kid has played for me every game for the past 2 years, I don't put my DD wants over whats best for the team, I have never been accused of daddy ball in the 10 seasons I've coached my DD's. So if I wanted to coach in an organization and bring my DD with me, it would be fairly easy for an organization head who didnt know me to find out what kind of coach I am and then to make a decision based on that....rather then if I have a kid on the team.

BTW the DD I coach is a 9 year old on an all 9U team. There arent many all 9U teams out there, our tournament schedule is based on my expeirence in the years of being around travel ball, its not a killer schedule. I'd like to see a kid right out of playing college softball or a High School varsity coach with no kids coach a 9u team lol. I am not saying there wouldnt be some good ones that could do it, but clearly a parent with a 9 year old, is better equiped in most cases to deal with kids that age.

I respect your opinion and you know that lol...thats why I call you smartypants :lmao: but I think its a bit myopic to restrict yourself to non-parent only coaches....If we are talking 16u/18U showcase teams I think it would be wise in most cases to get a non parent coach, unless you had a parent coach with connections and knowledge of how the whole recruiting process takes place and in that case it would be foolish to pass on a coach with those credentials.

Its just my view on the whole non-parent coaches issue, in a perfect world every team would have awesome well trained non-parent coaches...but there arent enough awesome well trained non-parent coaches out there willing to committ that kind of time and effort into coaching a travel team, so we have to add the right parent coaches, the ones that are willing to learn the game and when they are coaching they feel like they are watching 12 DD's not just one.

 

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BTW I also think this is an awesome discussion, and kudos to all the coaches out there that take the time to coach and learn to coach, especially non-parent coaches that are coaching for the love of the game not because they have a DD on the team.

 

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I've been involved with FP softball for a while and this is coming from a perspective from a parent (never coached softball). My DD's have had good coaches and bad over the years and really it didn't matter if they were a parent coach or not.

We had one parent coach that was a great guy but didn't really know the nuances of the game. We had a non-parent former player coach that was one of the pettiest people that turned the season into an episode from "Mean Girls". We had a parent coach that was great and my DD really learned a lot from him. We've had a daddy-ball coach (worst season ever). And right now we have a ex-player coach who is awesome and this DD will probably finish her travel career with her and this team (awesome team too).

I was on one of the local travel team board and their policy for parent coaches was DD plays for free. Non-parent coaches were given a stipend. (I never quite figured why the stipend was more than the player fees...).

For my DD's, male or female never seemed to matter. The character and expertise of the coach did. We have some specialty coaches that are former players and that in-the-trenches knowledge does add to their insight overall. They usually have great stories too.

But really, all in all, a good coach is a good coach (and they're hard to find).

 

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I think a distinction should be made in regard to parent / nonparent coaches. Is the team simply that, a team or is it a "program"? Is the team the Emerald City Panthers 14u or the Ohio Gold? When a players familiy is looking at an upper age level team - one that has multiple age kids on it - one thing that is always looked at is the stability of the coaches. Is the coach there now but will leave when DD goes to college? Are there asst coaches with younger kids on the team? Many - not most, but many - of the higher level teams have a consistant nonparent head coach. It doesn't always mean that coach is the best around, but it lends itself to consistancy. As has been discussed on other threads here, that is what gets you in big events, and opens the college coaches ears. I can tell you that college coaches and Big Time TD's listen a bit more intently to nonparent coaches - like it or not.

And yes those non-parent coaches are compensated - travel, expenses and in most cases time. Because of "program" fundraising, that compensation is almost never seen by the families.

 

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Oops Mark:

We are not compensated beyond our motel/hotel costs, which is clearly advertised to all player families participating in tryouts. No gas, no airplane fares, no meals (although we appreciate that a couple of times a season a parent will pay for one of our meals), no compensation for any coaching clinics/NFCA College Coaches three day seminars that we attend.

So at least in our organization, families playing on non-parent coaches teams DO see what it costs them. Fortunately, since we have Casey the Wonder Dog, we usually stay at the Red Roof Inns. And we drive to anything that is within 2 hours.

 

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Oops Mark:

We are not compensated beyond our motel/hotel costs, which is clearly advertised to all player families participating in tryouts. No gas, no airplane fares, no meals (although we appreciate that a couple of times a season a parent will pay for one of our meals), no compensation for any coaching clinics/NFCA College Coaches three day seminars that we attend.

So at least in our organization, families playing on non-parent coaches teams DO see what it costs them. Fortunately, since we have Casey the Wonder Dog, we usually stay at the Red Roof Inns. And we drive to anything that is within 2 hours.[/QUO


Well you simply need to change things...lol

What I meant by the team not seeing the coaching costs, I meant their checkbooks don't see it. Those costs are usually paid through sponsorships or fundraising. All team costs MUST be shared with the team. Monthly expense summaries for the families are a must.

Seriously I can only talk about what I am seeing down here. The truely top level teams, and those trying to get there, that use non-parent coaches take care of their coaches. It is not a living mind you in most cases (GCH it is), but it makes it a little more palitable. Just a quick example - a coach that gives 10 lessons a week will make $400-500. If he/she is asked to coach a team she/he would probably only give half that. The teams they sign on with will make them whole. In some cases they are asked not to give any outside lessons, so in that case you are talking about someone walking away from 2k a month. IMHO even parent head coaches should at least have the team cover the hotel costs.

B TW - the team should also pay for kennel costs and all coaching certifications.......again IMO

 

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Being a Travel ball coach with my dd on it and a non-parent head varsity HS coach. I like being a non-parent coach the best. You do not have to worry about appearences of favoritism or being harder on your dd than the rest etc.. However from experience just because a female may have played the game even @ the college level does not mean she will automatically be a great coach just as ex-baseball players or football players do not make great coaches. It takes a certain type person and mentality to be an effective coach. Good communication skills are a must along with patience, persistence and a willingness and desire to learn.

 

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The OFC community never ceases to amaze me. Excellent feedback, Thank you, keep it coming!

I agree with Tim that a good dose of Old Grandad at the appropriate time (not when actively coaching) can strengthen any coaches fortitude!

I have been a parent/coach for about 4 years. An outsider viewing a practice or game would not know who my dd is. I may even be harder on my dd than I am on the rest of the team. I, like another post on here, don't want to give the impression that I am showing favoritism to my dd.

My opinion on the parent/non-parent debate is that there are both good and bad in both cases. I think there are certain traits of a good coach that transcend whether a dd is on the team or not. On the idea of a good coach being born or made, I think this is the "born" part:
*Effective communicator (to both players, and parents)
*Able to be serious when needed, and fun when needed
*Love of the game / players
*Willing / ability to learn new or different methods
*Ability to subdue an ego to accomplish the above

This would speak to the "made" part of coaching. If someone has the right qualities to coach, then they need experience. That is the crux of the original question. Even if we had parents with the abilities to coach, if they are inexperienced, there will be a learning curve that most player's parents won't want to wait a year or better for it to kick in. I was wondering what the price point would be for a coach that is already "broken in" so to speak.

 

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what is inherently so wrong with a dad who is going to spend the time it takes to develop talent and deal with the parents who think Susie McError should play every game? Dads take score, cook burgers between games, clap from the stands. They eat the same walking tacos, go to the same bathrooms and have to wear those polyester coaching shirts all weekends. While normal parents are chilling in the lounge chair, the dad coach is hovering over the bracket to see who they play and they are actively thinking 3 games ahead. They soft toss an hour before every game.
Seriously, let's give dads some credit

 

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There are good parent coaches out there and there are bad ones, just as there are good non-parent coaches and bad ones.
I think some people buy into the "non-parent" coach thing way too much.

I coached both my daughters for years and never had any complaints. (Not to my face anyway :lmao

I have coached the 18U the last 2 years with no daughter on the team and depending on how things play out, may coach a 14U or 16U next season.

To answer the original question though, as far as compensation, if you are in it to make money, you are in it for the wrong reason, but hotel stays and maybe a little gas money would be a fair offer to anyone who loves the game. JMHO

I would also beware of any organization who does tons of fundraisers. This is a pain for parent coaches, but a huge pain for non-parent coaches. We do 1 fundraiser a year, the teams keep the money they make, and that is it. Fundraiser after fundraiser is a red flag and a pain in the butt to good coaches as well as good parents and especially good players.

To attract good coaches, I say keep the process and Organizational aspects simple. Let them spend their time coaching and give them a lot of decision making input.

;&

 

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There are good parent coaches out there and there are bad ones, just as there are good non-parent coaches and bad ones.
I think some people buy into the "non-parent" coach thing way too much.

I coached both my daughters for years and never had any complaints. (Not to my face anyway :lmao

I have coached the 18U the last 2 years with no daughter on the team and depending on how things play out, may coach a 14U or 16U next season.

To answer the original question though, as far as compensation, if you are in it to make money, you are in it for the wrong reason, but hotel stays and maybe a little gas money would be a fair offer to anyone who loves the game. JMHO

I would also beware of any organization who does tons of fundraisers. This is a pain for parent coaches, but a huge pain for non-parent coaches. We do 1 fundraiser a year, the teams keep the money they make, and that is it. Fundraiser after fundraiser is a red flag and a pain in the butt to good coaches as well as good parents and especially good players.

To attract good coaches, I say keep the process and Organizational aspects simple. Let them spend their time coaching and give them a lot of decision making input.

;&

Gotta disagree on a few points here.

I was told this a long time ago and I still abide by it...
Cocahes coach, players play and the other parents take care of everything else. That includes fundraisers. Personally I think teams (read PARENTS) should strive to raise all the money needed to play the game. Our team holds 3 poker tournaments a year and we net over 15k. We will do to other small fundraisers for a total of 5k more. That offsets a lot of our costs. If the parents had to foot the bill for all of that I am not sure we could do the things we do.

Why is it wrong for a nonparent coach to be compensated? They probably spend more time on the team stuff than parent coaches, because it is a part time job for them. Again - we aren't talking about making a fortune here. Like I said in most cases it is just what they would have made giving lessons. I can't tell you how many times I have heard parents say that non parent coaches are nuts for doing it without a kid playing.

I really see no difference in parent vs nonparent coaches. I've seen good and bad in both. I just think that the type of team you are dictates what type of coach fits best.

 

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what is inherently so wrong with a dad who is going to spend the time it takes to develop talent and deal with the parents who think Susie McError should play every game? Dads take score, cook burgers between games, clap from the stands. They eat the same walking tacos, go to the same bathrooms and have to wear those polyester coaching shirts all weekends. While normal parents are chilling in the lounge chair, the dad coach is hovering over the bracket to see who they play and they are actively thinking 3 games ahead. They soft toss an hour before every game.
Seriously, let's give dads some credit

agree 100% The vast majority of travel ball coaches are, or were, parent coaches. As am I. I would love to be in the stands with a little flask, second guessing all the coaches moves! Much less stress, a lot less work, but I woluldn't trade it for anything! I have been bitten by the bug.