Infield Fly Rule

[default]

Can the infield fly rule still be enforced if it wasn't called by the umpires at the time of the play? This happened in the championship game last w/e at the Sunraze tournament. Runners on 1st & 2nd w/ no outs. Batter hits a pop up between home, 3rd & pitcher. Pitcher calls for it, but the ball hits her glove, lands on the ground in fair territory & then rolls foul. Nothing is called by either ump. Runners take off for the next base. Catcher picks up the ball & throws to the ss who is covering 3rd. Runner arrives ahead of the throw & is called safe by the ump. Ball is returned to the pitcher & all players & umpires return to their positions. Now, bases are loaded & pitcher steps on rubber. Just then the defensive coach calls time & walks up to home plate ump & asks about the infield fly rule. After conversing w/ the base ump he announces that infield fly rule does come into play & points to runner on 1st & calls her out. The other 2 runners remained on 2nd & 3rd.
I've always heard umpires call "infield fly, batter's out if fair", while the ball is in the air. By the umps not calling it at the time of the hit, I'm sure the runners felt that they were forced to run to the next base. Suppose when the catcher threw the ball to the ss, the ss was able to tag the runner f/ 2nd before she reached 3rd. Ump would have called her out. Then after coach comes out to argue infield fly rule, would the ump also call batter out as well? I'm sure you can come up w/ all kinds of what if's or scenarios that could play.
Anyways, can the ump go back after the play & rule infield fly rule? And if so, does he call runners out that tried to advance at their own risk, even though the runners didn't know they had a choice of running or staying put?

 

[default]

i have seen that before - i have been at games that say the in-field fly rule needs to be established before the games starts - i have heard that each sanction has a separate priority (USSSA, NSA, ASA) my "suggestion" is to have each of those books with you when you play that tourney.

 

[default]

That was an NSA tourney.

 

[default]

flyers, you are exactly right. Horrible job by the umpires in that play, as you describe it. Once they blew the call, they have to stick with it because the blown call affected other developments during the play. As you say, if the ball was caught and they then change their minds to infield fly after the play, you're potentially looking at a triple play if the runners didn't tag up.

 

[default]

The IIF is in effect by rule. Even if neither umpire calls it, it is still an IIF. After the fact, they got it right. Each rule book in any letter association covers this exact senario.

This is a correctible error. Had R1 been called out at 3rd on a force rather than a tag play, they would have been well within the rules to place her at third after the dicussion with the defensive coach.

 

[default]

In China, they only allow couples to have one child. In America, we should have the same kind of restriction on the breeding of dumbass umpires. Forty or 50 bucks a game and between the two of them they don't know the infield fly rule should be called?

 

[default]

We had a pop-up to our second baseman today with runners at 1st and 2nd and one out. No infield fly was called and she drops the ball and it squirts away off her foot. Runners all advanced safely and when our coach questioned the umpire, she said it was not an "easy catch" for our player to make. So our coach asked why she thought she should judge the skill of our player and she had no response.

 

[default]

The rule does state that the infield fly should be a fly ball that should be caught with reasonable effort by the infielder... so, I guess that the umpire does have the right to judge the skill of the player.

 

[default]

Even with all this said I still think the runners should be made to go back to 1st and 2nd. On most infield fly rule calls, the runners will not advance. Unfortunatly this is all caused by the ump not making the call. I agree, at $40 to $50 a game they should be on every play. We have seen in our local leauges some umpires that are there for a paycheck. On the flip side we also have some very good ones that give their all out effort! If your reading this George, (Pinnicale) in my opinion, your a notch above the rest!

 

[default]

wontyoueverlearn,

I would agree with you for sure about George. (Pinnacle, also Spanodome) he is a cut above the rest, maybe not in stature, but in softball umpiring and in fairness for sure. A great guy on and off the field. Wish we had a lot more like him, the game would be much better for everyone.

 

[default]

The rule does state that the infield fly should be a fly ball that should be caught with reasonable effort by the infielder... so, I guess that the umpire does have the right to judge the skill of the player.

Believe me, the ball should have been caught with reasonable effort. It was about 3 steps in front of the player and was an error. If only she had dropped it on purpose and got the double play...

 

[default]

- An Infield Fly can be called retroactively. You would hope it doesn't have to be, because it looks bad when it is!

Umpires should be on the same page and signaling the "Infield Fly" to each other every time the situation comes up. If they fail to call or announce the Infield Fly, and failure to call it puts one or the other teams at a disadvantage, they may remove extra outs earned or place runners back on their original bases- or any combination that "fixes" the effects of the late/missing call.

For instance, if the runners thought they had to run (were forced) because of an umpire's lack of making the "Infield Fly" call, that can be corrected. Or, if the defense earned extra outs that they would not have, that too can be fixed.

The final remedy will depend on how the player's reacted to the call. Which team was disadvantaged the most? Did one team benefit from the missed call? Was was the final outcome of the play?

The likely effect of a properly called Infield Fly is one out (the batter runner) and runners remaining on their original bases. After taking all that into consideration, the umpire's corrections should be as close as possible to that likely outcome- one out (it might not be the out at first base!) and runners wherever they likely would have wound up.

BUT...and this is the big BUT...You hope that you never have to resort to this remedy. Call and signal the Infield Fly properly and then whatever happens on the field happens (and, sometimes, an Infield fly can look like a Chinese fire drill!).

- RE: "Ordinary Effort". Generally, umpires are trained that skill level of the players may be taken into consideration when making the determination of "ordinary effort" for an Infield Fly call. For instance, the "ordinary effort" of a 10U player may not be equal to that of a 16U player. The umpire can take that into account.

He may also take into account adverse weather conditions, such as wind, rain or darkness which can affect the "effort" needed to catch the ball.

- RE: Misc. Notes on Infield Flies:

- This same "fix" described above does not apply to Major League Baseball. ?Their interpretation is that if the IFR is not called by the umpires, it simply does not exist. There can be no fixes or corrections if the call is not made. The "fix" situation is fairly confined to the amateur codes.

- Strange IFR fact: For the first time in- maybe, ever- I had two back-to-back Infield Fly calls in one game. Runners on first and second, no outs. Batter pops up to short. Next batter pops to the pitcher.

The umpires correctly called it both times and there was no mass confusion or hysteria! ?

 

[default]

I believe the rule states the umps do not have to call (infield fly) but they have to point in the air.

 

[default]

The actual rule, as it appears in the rule book, makes no mention of how the umpires should call or announce the infield fly. It only describes the conditions that must be met for the IFR (Infield Fly Rule) to be in effect and notes that the batter is out when one is hit.

The mechanic for how it is called by the umpires is described in the umpire manual, which is separate from the actual rule book. Generally, the guidelines given are:

- Whenever a potential IFR situation exists (ie: runners on first and second, or bases loaded, with less than two outs), BEFORE A PITCH IS EVEN THROWN the umpires should be signalling to each other to be alert for for the possible IFR. That way, they are both on the same page and ready to call it quickly enough for the players to react to it.

You may notice from time-to-time that in this situation the umpires will make a quick gesture to each other- perhaps a fist to their chest or touching the bill of their cap. This signal is given as the batter is preparing to bat. It basically says to each umpire, "Hey, Partner, we have a potential IFR situation- be ready to call it!".

- If the batted ball is judged to be an Infield Fly, either umpire, or both, should signal it AND verbally announce it.

The signal for most softball rule sets is a raised fist in the air. It's just one of those odd quirks, but in baseball the signal is usually a point to the sky. You are likely to see an umpire use either one of those as his visual signal.

The verbal component is to loudly announce, "Infield Fly! Batter out!". If the ball is hit very close to the foul line, the umpire may instead say, "Infield fly, if fair". Remember, an Infield Fly must be a FAIR batted ball. If the ball becomes foul it is no longer an Infield Fly.

 

[default]

I agree with Bretman that an infield fly is based on making a reasonable catch in the infield and sometimes based on the age group playing and their skills. Do you know how quick an umpire has to make that decsion. It's not like the ball is airborne for a lot of time.

As for the 50 or so dollars for umpires... please forward my resume to the tournament director who is paying that fee. I want as many games as possible....

 

[default]

because it's not REC BALL...

it should be automatic for them to call IFR WITH BASES LOADED. I had the exact same thing happen 2 weeks ago in day 2 bracket play. In fact, the SS dropped it (10U game) and we stayed put until she dropped it. Quietly I said to my 3rd base coach-"I can't believe he didn't call that". By now... all base runners advance. My runner on 2nd was somewhat confused so she advanced with a delay. SS threw the ball to third and was tagged out. The UMP then calls IFR. I CANNOT BELIEVE I'm seeing this. The UMP said he called it-NONONE in the world heard this-includeing the other team or himself. I am not convinced fairly often... but in the case I'M CONVINCED HE SAID IT IN HIS HEAD. No signal, no motion... NOTHING!!!! His partner-whom had to be uprooted because he only moved to get a drink between innings and awakened due to being 550+lbs (OK, maybe 575 lbs) to say he heard it. No way- good team work amongst them-I do like that. I argued that we would not have advanced any runners on a bases loaded infield pop-up, especially since the SS was pretty good and could play some ball being (hopefully eliminating the talent judgement in my mind). As I argued further, I said that the IFR was implemented to stop such plays. His lapse of judgment should have stood with his original "no call". In the end we won. No hard feelings, just wish at the tournament level these things didn't happen.