Question on Infield Fly Rule

[default]

Just looking for clarification....

In a tourney....ASA/High School rules.....

We are at bat. Bases loaded, 1 out.

Girl hits a bloop fly that drops in front of the charging right fielder. It landed about 7-10 feet into the grass. 2B was playing up about 2 steps behind pitcher. The only play the 2B made on the ball was to turn and watch it go over her head.

Ump called an infield fly rule out, because the 2B had an opportunity to make a play on the ball because it was not deep enough into the outfield as to make the 2B play on the ball impossible.

Additionally, the call came after the play had finished, and, our runners, who had advanced were told they had to return.

Can someone explain this rule to me, again?

 

[default]

Ump does not have to call the infield fly during the play. The runners, however, advance at their own risk. The way I understand it, He got that part wrong.

 

[default]

The ol' Infield Fly Rule confounds and confuses them once again!

You have to break this one down in two parts. One part is umpire judgment, the other part is the actual application of the playing rules.

To be an Infield Fly, the umpire must judge that the ball could have been caught by an infielder with "ordinary effort". This does not preclude the catch from being made by an outfielder, so long as it is made in an area where an infielder could have caught it.

Before you do anything else, like call the batter out or allow runners to advance, you must first make a judgment call on the "ordinary effort" part of the rule. Apparently, this umpire judged that the ball met the "ordinary effort" definition. You can't really argue or protest that judgment but, on the surface, it sounds like maybe it was poor judgment. Nevertheless, it is the umpire's judgment and you're kind of stuck with it- even if it's bad.

Once that "ordinary effort" judgment has been rendered, you can deal with the rest of the play. Now, you are dealing with cast-in-stone written playing rules and those ARE subject to official protest. It sounds like you had a protestable ruling here, one that would have been upheld under review.

On an Infield Fly, the ball remains live and runners may advance at their own peril. As far as advancing or having to tag up, the runners are covered by the exact same rules that apply to any other batted ball. If the fly ball is caught, they must tag up before advancing. If it is not, they don't have to tag up.

Since this ball wasn't caught, the runners were free to advance as they wished. Their advance would be perfectly legal. That the umpire made them return to their original bases was a misinterpretation of a playing rule. That is 100% protestable- and reversible, if the person reviewing the protest has any grasp on the proper rule.

 

[default]

Thanks for the responses. This has been eating at me since that tourney. I used to call games myself and my understanding of the rule, based on Bret's dissertation, is correct.

My assessment of the umpire's judgement (or the lack thereof) was correct as well.

 

[default]

Is the pitcher considered an INfielder??????
seen this called many different ways

 

[default]

Is this the home plate umps call or can the field umps make the infield fly call?

 

[default]

Usually, most 99% percent of the time.. the plate takes that call.

But a plate umpire will always quickly look at his partner on backside of infield calls... and wait for the thumb up ( for infield fly) or thumb down ( for a no call). This happens so quick that many don't notice the umpires communicating.

 

[default]

Is the pitcher considered an INfielder??????
seen this called many different ways

Yes, she is an infielder in an infield fly situation.

 

[default]

Both the pitcher and the catcher are considered as infielders for the purpose of the Infield Fly Rule.

If you were to go through different umpire manuals for different associations, you would find some that say the IFR call belongs solely to the plate umpire, others that say either umpire may make the call.

Personally, I don't care which one calls it...as long as it's called correctly!

 

[default]

The ol' Infield Fly Rule confounds and confuses them once again!

You have to break this one down in two parts. One part is umpire judgment, the other part is the actual application of the playing rules.

To be an Infield Fly, the umpire must judge that the ball could have been caught by an infielder with "ordinary effort". This does not preclude the catch from being made by an outfielder, so long as it is made in an area where an infielder could have caught it.

Before you do anything else, like call the batter out or allow runners to advance, you must first make a judgment call on the "ordinary effort" part of the rule. Apparently, this umpire judged that the ball met the "ordinary effort" definition. You can't really argue or protest that judgment but, on the surface, it sounds like maybe it was poor judgment. Nevertheless, it is the umpire's judgment and you're kind of stuck with it- even if it's bad.

Once that "ordinary effort" judgment has been rendered, you can deal with the rest of the play. Now, you are dealing with cast-in-stone written playing rules and those ARE subject to official protest. It sounds like you had a protestable ruling here, one that would have been upheld under review.

On an Infield Fly, the ball remains live and runners may advance at their own peril. As far as advancing or having to tag up, the runners are covered by the exact same rules that apply to any other batted ball. If the fly ball is caught, they must tag up before advancing. If it is not, they don't have to tag up.

Since this ball wasn't caught, the runners were free to advance as they wished. Their advance would be perfectly legal. That the umpire made them return to their original bases was a misinterpretation of a playing rule. That is 100% protestable- and reversible, if the person reviewing the protest has any grasp on the proper rule.

I wanted to add, to your very good description, that if the ball is not caught and the runners do try and advance, the team in the field MUST tag the runners out. It is not a force out situation once the out is called due to the infield fly rule.

I've seen that part called wrong and it is real confusing to everyone.

 

[default]

While it didnt cost us the game, it gets frustrating....I am sure you all know.

At least I had the call right. There is no way in h*** the 2B makes that play under extraordinary effort, much less ordinary effort. I dont think anyone could (maybe Pokey Reese). That is why that area is referred to as no-mans-land. It is a danger area for teams in the field.

At any rate, water under the bridge. Just wanted to make sure. Outstanding explanation!

 

[default]

Ump does not have to call the infield fly during the play. The runners, however, advance at their own risk. The way I understand it, He got that part wrong.

I believe the umpires must acknowlege the fact that the infield fly rule is in effect. Otherwise, the base runners and base coaches would have no idea what to do.

Len

 

[default]

I don't know Jay...YOUR 2nd baseman might be able to make that play, I hear she's pretty outstanding!

signed -

your second baseman's mommy LOL

 

[default]

If the shortstop from the 11u Classics is playing 2nd... the ball would be caught... that girl can cover some ground!!!

 

[default]

I believe the umpires must acknowlege the fact that the infield fly rule is in effect. Otherwise, the base runners and base coaches would have no idea what to do.

The IFR may be invoked after the play- that is allowed under the rules. For instance, if the umpires forget to call it, when it should have been called, they may enforce the rule once it is brought to their attention.

Another example would be if they called it, by mistake, when it didn't apply. After the play it could be effectively "un-called".

But you are right about the players not having any idea what to do if the umpires call an IFR the wrong way! That is why there is another rule (usually found under the "Umpire" section in the rule books) that grants the plate umpire the power to rectify any delayed or reversed call that puts either team in jeopardy.

The "fix" is solely at the umpire's judgment and discretion. He may place runners on whatever bases he thinks they would have been on had the IFR been correctly called, he can negate outs made by the defense if his call jeopardized the runners (ie: they didn't know if they had to run or not) and he can retroactively go back and call the batter out.

There is no "cast in stone" solution to fix this and the umpire can come up with any combination of the above as he sees fit. Some things he might have to consider: If the ball was actually caught, if the runners were tagging up or ran on contact, if the defense gained extra force outs that they shouldn't have or any other reaction/confusion by the players on the play. The goal should be to set things exactly as they would have been had the IFR been called the right way in the first place.

The umpire's best course of action is, naturally, to recognize Infield Fly situations in advance and to call them properly when they happen. Retroactively calling- or "un-calling"- the IFR can get messy! It will almost always lead to an argument from one team or the other- whichever one feels the most "disadvantaged" by the call. The rules do provide the umpires the power to fix their mistake, but the best thing an umpire can do is make the right call, the first time, to head off the messy arguments before they even happen.