License to send?

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I'm coaching 3rd base the other day and one of my kids hits a nice shot in the gap. As she approaches 2nd I wave her on to 3rd. I see she's hitting the bag in stride then I turn to left center to watch the relay coming in. What I didn't see was the 2nd baseman obstruct my runner after she hit second base. So she's into third with a stand up triple and I see the umpire holding his fist out while the third baseman is holding the ball.

I asked the umpire if I could send her home with no risk and he just shrugged his shoulders. My parents were overheard saying they were glad I didn't send her but then the home plate ump turned to them and said, "if he'd have sent her she would have scored regardless because of the obstruction".

So my understanding in this situation is that a runner obstructed is only entitled to the next base immediately after the obstruction. Is that wrong? Should I have sent her and hoped for a ruling in our favor? (she ended up scoring anyway but who would have known?)

FWIW this was an NSA event. Thanks.

 

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In the event of an obstruction, the runner is only protected "to the base the umpire determines she would have made had there been no obstruction", the minimum of which is the next base to which she was headed.
Rarely can it be assumed that an obstruction is so flagrant that a runner could be protected two bases. However....picture this....imagine your runner was obstructed between 2nd & 3rd base, about two strides from 3rd. You send her home & she is out at home by two steps. Could she be guaranteed protection to home? In my opinion as an NSA umpire, I would say yes. Again, I don't believe the obstruction rule has a set amount of bases, rather an umpire's judgement as to the amount of delay on the runner as a result of the obstruction. I do believe this is a (don't hate me) judgment call.
Would love to hear Bretman's answer on this. (Secretly hoping it mirrors mine).

Excuse me boys, while I find my NSA rule book & look this up!

 

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In the event of an obstruction, the runner is only protected "to the base the umpire determines she would have made had there been no obstruction", the minimum of which is the next base to which she was headed.

^^^^this. Of course, if your runner stops after being obstructed, then tries to go again, she's no longer protected. She must keep going. Then it IS the judgement of the umpire as far as which base she would have gotten if she wasn't obstructed. If she goes into a base and it's a close play, but she's out, most umpires will give her that base. If there's no way she would make it to that next base, she normally won't get it and will just get the previous base.

 

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^^^^this. Of course, if your runner stops after being obstructed, then tries to go again, she's no longer protected. She must keep going. Then it IS the judgement of the umpire as far as which base she would have gotten if she wasn't obstructed. If she goes into a base and it's a close play, but she's out, most umpires will give her that base. If there's no way she would make it to that next base, she normally won't get it and will just get the previous base.

Hey Stacie I'm honored it took my question to get your first post here. Don't be a stranger!

 

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Had USFA Ump this weekend call obstruction as my runner went into 2nd, ball gets away from fielder & I initially tell my runner to come to 3B, but LF came in quickly & picked ball up. Ump reminded me that he was only awarding her 2B & it was game on if I would have had her come.......

 

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Yeah normally it's the other way around. I see the obstruction and the umps saw nothing.

 

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Yeah normally it's the other way around. I see the obstruction and the umps saw nothing.

Same here.

And thanks! I'm honored to be here. I've avoided forums for a while because I usually say something that offends someone else or someone posts an idiotic response to something and it gets all crazy. lol I just wanted to get away from the conflict for a while, but I've missed the interaction with other wonderful softball minds. So I'm slowly getting back into interacting with others while keeping in mind that my main objective is to help and learn! Not to be the ONLY right answer

 

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I've avoided forums for a while because I usually say something that offends someone else or someone posts an idiotic response to something

If you're not offending anyone, or the idiots aren't responding, then this is just one big online Group Hug...

This is America, we live for conflict.

(and, "Welcome". )

 

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You made the right call by stopping her at third. Obstruction is one of those rules that has a lot of opinion in it. Did the umpire see it, what did he see and what does he think? All go through your head as you base-coach. Unless I see the arm go up; I assume that the umpire is blind and he'll make no call in my favor. If the arm goes up the only thing I know is that we should have the next base; taking the second one on an opinion rule is very risky and usually not successful.

 

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Had USFA Ump this weekend call obstruction as my runner went into 2nd, ball gets away from fielder & I initially tell my runner to come to 3B, but LF came in quickly & picked ball up. Ump reminded me that he was only awarding her 2B & it was game on if I would have had her come.......

Unless USFA and ASA rules are totally different that umpire was incorrect. The umpire uses her/his judgement to determine what is awared. It was explained to me one time that if the first baseman causes the runner to lose two steps and is thrown out at third by one step she is awarded third on the obstruction. The UIC told me that umpires usually err on the side of the runner. If the runner was only awarded/protected second base, obstruction would happen at first everytime a ball was lined in the corner for what is usually a triple.

 

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Obstruction is always a judgement call by the umpire.
On a single up the middle and the runner is tripped up by the 1st basemen, they do not "get" 2nd even if they made an attempt.
Now on that play I would expect the runner is protected getting back to 1st base.

 

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I left my ASA book at a field last season but just received my NFHS rulebook. NFHS 8-4-3 PENALTY b.: If the obstructed runner is put out after passing the base she would have reached had there been no obstruction, the obstructed runner will be called out. The ball remains live. So... license to send? NO. You did the right thing IMHO.

 

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. Runner is protected to whatever base umpire feels they would have reached. It is pure judgement by umpire making call. You are NOT automatically given next base because of obstruction. However, runner is not called out.

Example: R1 hits single to CF F3 obstructs on turn around first base. R1 continues to second base after seeing obstruction call. Ball waiting for her and obvious she would have never made it to second safely. Umpire sends her safely back to first base.

Example: R1 hits single to CF and ball is booted, R1 is again obstructed rounding 1st. "Close" play at second, but R1 tagged out. Umpire says in his/her judgment R1 would have been safe had obstruction not occurred. Result- R1 ruled safe at second. If ball got into gap and R1 continued to 3B and ump ruled that R1 would have been safe there, then R1 awarded 3B. If R1 continued to 3B and out and umpire ruled R1 would not have safely made even w/o obstruction, R1 returned safely back to 2nd.

This is how I have been explained by NFHS, ASA, NSA, and USFA umpires. As always, "it is a judgement call." If I had dollar for every time I have heard that!!!!

 

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Example: R1 hits single to CF and ball is booted, R1 is again obstructed rounding 1st. "Close" play at second, but R1 tagged out. Umpire says in his/her judgment R1 would have been safe had obstruction not occurred. Result- R1 ruled safe at second. If ball got into gap and R1 continued to 3B and ump ruled that R1 would have been safe there, then R1 awarded 3B. If R1 continued to 3B and out and umpire ruled R1 would not have safely made even w/o obstruction, R1 returned safely back to 2nd.

All good examples and correct rulings...up until that last sentence.

If the umpire judges that the runner would not have reached third base, then if tagged she is OUT, not returned back to second base.

 

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Thx Bretman for the clarification!!!

 

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Can't fool Bretman.
Love these posts. We all learn from them!

 

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All good examples and correct rulings...up until that last sentence.

If the umpire judges that the runner would not have reached third base, then if tagged she is OUT, not returned back to second base.

Definately not how it has been explaine down here. Again by that definition the example is that every first basemen should interfer with a player rounding first where the ball is to the fence and down the line. That obstruction in essence holds the runner at second - unless she beats it out to third of course. Not that anyone would do that - but that is what the above interpritation lends itself to.

 

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Definately not how it has been explaine down here. Again by that definition the example is that every first basemen should interfer with a player rounding first where the ball is to the fence and down the line. That obstruction in essence holds the runner at second - unless she beats it out to third of course. Not that anyone would do that - but that is what the above interpritation lends itself to.

Purposely obstructing every baserunner rounding first base, when the ball is in the outfield, would not be a good strategy.

When the runner is obstructed, if the umpire judges that the runner would have reached third base- or even home- had she not been obstructed, then that is the base that the runner will be awarded at the end of the play.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point. What about this do you think would automatically "hold the runner at second base"?

 

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Purposely obstructing every baserunner rounding first base, when the ball is in the outfield, would not be a good strategy.

When the runner is obstructed, if the umpire judges that the runner would have reached third base- or even home- had she not been obstructed, then that is the base that the runner will be awarded at the end of the play.

Maybe I'm not understanding your point. What about this do you think would automatically "hold the runner at second base"?

LOL - yep I must be confusing things because what you just said is exactly what I meant to say in an earlier post!!!

In your earlier post it said "If the umpire judges that the runner would not have reached third base, then if tagged she is OUT, not returned back to second base." If that is the case as a coach you could not take a chance on bring a runner to third if she was obstructed at first. Your last example is exactly what I have been told. In essence it is the umpires judgement as to what base shewould have reached - regardless of if she is tied out or not.

 

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So bottom line is the obstruction signal is not a "free play" similar to what the offense in football gets after an off sides penalty.