Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Measuring Pitch speed

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Yes, it is boring now in the Fastpitch World so let's liven it up a bit.

Another thread was talking about pitch speed (exaggerated as it was). It got me to wondering just how should coaches or parents be measuring a pitch speed. Is there a standard practice to follow?

I did a quick google search and I found this web page. It is from a company who is trying to sell their product but it has some excellent points.

I'm sure that there are other excellent references out their within the Internet world and I welcome other OFC'ers to post them on this thread.

http://www.gloveradar.com/htdocs/gr_3bcoach.html

 

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The process I use - not to measure speed but to measure improvement in speed is to video my daughter pitching.

I have a standard video camera (not HD) so the number of frames per second is 30 frames per second.

I have video software that allows me to move frame by frame through her pitch.

It has been fun to watch her improve over time.

When she was 11, I was counting 17 frames from the moment she released the ball to the moment it hit the catcher's glove.

Now at 14, for the first time this fall, she began hitting the glove in 14 frames. I know that this is a combination of length of stride and speed but it has been fun to watch her improve.

Being math savvy - I actually built a table that calculated the speed of the pitch. Ball travels, 40 feet in how many seconds to calculate a MPH.

THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL - way too many IFs, ANDs, or BUTs - But it is fun to get an idea of somewhere AROUND my daughter's pitching speed... I am figuring plus or (MORE THAN LIKELY) MINUS, 3 MPH...


From 40 Feet

If a ball travels from pitcher's release to catcher's glove in:
17 Frames = 48 MPH
16 Frames = 51 MPH
15 Frames = 54 MPH
14 Frames = 58 MPH
13 Frames = 63 MPH
12 Frames = 68 MPH

 

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Never heard of this device...but I looked at the link and I think this is why you hear of a player that throws say 56 mph on one gun (i.e. clocked by someone who gets it coming right out of her hand), and then the same girl is 50 mph on another gun, clocked by someone who clocks the ball more near the plate, and then say 53mph on the Rev Fire- where you input your distance and the reading is taken upon inpact but its unclear whether or not the Rev Fire takes into account the pitcher's stride length.....

I probably will not invest in this product since it attaches to the glove- i would be too concerned that the ball would make contact with the device and i would have just wasted X amount of dollars on a shattered peice of equipment :lmao:

 

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The article was very interesting but doesn't really explain why this happens:

We've had pitchers work in our cage with myself and another coach each using a Bushnell Optics radar gun. One of us is positioned directly behind the pitcher and the other directly behind the catcher. 9 out of 10 times we get the same reading. When it's not the same its within 1 mph.

I'm not particularly saying one way is better than another as long as you (or me) use the same method when evaluating all the pitchers so it's all within the same frame of reference. I suppose that could mean that 50mph to me could only be 46mph to someone else. Oh well.

When I work with our pitchers I hold a catchers mitt in one hand and the radar in the other.

 

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Bill I thought every pitcher parent knew exactly what the dd threw just by watching them?

 

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We have been fortunate in that our kids have been to many NFCA and college camps. In each one the guns are shot from behind the plate. I assume that is because it is the speed hitters see. For the most part what I have seen is they are more concerned with the differences in speeds of the different pitches along with the rev speeds. I am sure if a kid throws excessively fast or slow it will ring a bell - but otherwise I don't see them getting too jazzed up about gun speed.

 

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The glove radar works well and had no issues with it on the back of the glove. It was pretty accurate when another person stood behind with a gun. If nothing else you can at least measure relative improvement to itself.

 

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It's not so much how you go about it, but how useable the results are. As Mark said, college coaches tend to be behind the catcher, or where the pitch is received. Radar "clocks" several speeds during the flight of the ball, then averages those to give a reading. As far as accuracy, it doesn't matter if the object is moving away from you or coming toward you - the average speed will be calculated the same. Most bad readings come from operator error, not malfunctioning equipment.

The key is to get directly in line with the pitch as much as possible. All guns will give a "fluke" reading every so often. What is important is the averages. The most valuable statistic is tracking improvement in speed over several sessions, and also tracking the difference in speed between types of pitches. A 52 mph change-up isn't going to be very effective paired with a 55 mph fastball!

Mad Hornet - Interesting concept with the two simultaneous guns... but I'm wondering if one gun would pick up signals from the other and give false readings? Although it's possible each gun transmits on a separate frequency...

I have used the same method MediaSteve used (with my antiquated Sony camcorder). I used a free software utility called VirtualDub and fed it converted AVI video. If you're into studying frame-by-frame video and don't have the $$$ to buy a package like RVP, VirtualDub is great - although there are cheap digital camcorders now that produce 60 fps video without the hassle. But then, that's too easy and wouldn't keep a geek like me occupied very long.

 

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LOL Bill, I use a Jugs gun, the only accurate way to do it.

 

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I was in no way endorsing the Glove Radar. It just happened that they had a good explaination of where measurements are taken from.

As mentioned in some of the postings above, the posisition of the radar gun in relation to the pitch path is the major factor in ensuring the accuracy of the reading.

So maybe we should push Tournament Directors to put up radar guns on each field so that the people can see just what speed a pitcher is throwing? :lmao:

Just like the Big Leagues baby!!!

 

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Just remember, speed is one of the easiest things a batter can adjust to. Unless you can throw it past a batter before the human body can anticipate and react, eventually it only becomes a factor with bystanders. People should think more about movement and location when judging a pitcher.

 

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I currently use a device called pocket radar. It looks like a large cell phone. It is really accurate when I have tested it against other devices. You will now often see these at college look tournaments and other events. Lots of coaches going to these because you can put in in your pocket. No big case or gun to carry.

I measure my pitchers speeds about every 4 months. Generally I will see a 1 to 3 mile per hour increase in speed between test as they grow older and get better with mechanics. I also look for the speed going the other way. I have caught a couple of my students hiding injury from me when I have seen the speed drop.

Dana.

 

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Just remember, speed is one of the easiest things a batter can adjust to. Unless you can throw it past a batter before the human body can anticipate and react, eventually it only becomes a factor with bystanders. People should think more about movement and location when judging a pitcher.

I'm guessing you're referring to the "third inning adjustment" where batters have seen the pitch speed and are making adjustments in their second at-bat. That being the case, yes I'd agree that a pitcher throwing same-speed 60+ mph flat pitches right down the pipe is going to get a "2nd time through the order rocking" - you see it all the time. However, if that SAME pitcher starts mixing in a well disguised change-up thrown up in the batter's eyes - it's a new ball game.

CONSTANT unchanging speed is very easy to train and adjust to, but IMO, the hardest adjustment for a batter to make is trying to time a pitch that looks and smells like a fastball - but floats in after the batter has committed to a fastball. Done properly, at best it's a guessing game for the batter. A change-up that gets crushed is a pitch that was not disguised properly - or a lucky guess by the batter. At least a moving pitch can be visually tracked, and after batters have seen the movement they can adjust. But speed change you can't visually detect... ?

 

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Done properly, at best it's a guessing game for the batter. A change-up that gets crushed is a pitch that was not disguised properly - or a lucky guess by the batter. At least a moving pitch can be visually tracked, and after batters have seen the movement they can adjust. But speed change you can't visually detect... ?

I agree on the change-up except one thing. A disciplined hitter can also smack the ball. A moving pitch can be adjusted by adjusting by speed-spin ratio.

 

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I teach look for thread. If you cant see thread as it comes to you more than likely its not an off speed pitch.

 

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We think in and adjust out we think fast and adjust slow we look for quirks in the pitcher as she throws different pitches. Hand placement in the glove before she pitches, Does she move from one side of the rubber to the other for a screw ball compared to a curve. A million things a hitter should be looking for at the plate because I guarantee you the pitcher and catcher is watching your stance and swing and adjusting to it.

Softball is a game of adjustments. A good hitter who is a student of the game will do this


Tim

 

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You left one out. I am sure you know it. Look high and adjust low.

 

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You left one out. I am sure you know it. Look high and adjust low.

Thanks, I did forget that one. And you are correct it defiantly is one of the adjustments hitters need to make.

Tim