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It's that whole "tabernacle" thing they got going on. Plus, they have the ultimate home plate umpire because He is never wrong.
It's that whole "tabernacle" thing they got going on. Plus, they have the ultimate home plate umpire because He is never wrong.
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I wanted to share a PM that i got- alot of good insight in this (won't mention i.d)
"There are some things that few teams in Ohio have been able to do successfully. One of those is to get established coaches that are willing AND able to stay at the age group where recruiting occurs. Some of the organizations you mentioned have coaches with established contacts with tournaments and college coaches. Some of the tournaments it is not how good you are, but is who you know. Most organizations in Ohio have coaches that start an age group and follow it through. Ohio has a few teams that do or have had coaches that stay at an age group. Most of them that I know of however have stayed at the 18U group. Elliot Thompson who coaches the Ohio Bandits (Akron area) has been coaching that team since about the mid 90's, Jamie Wolff with the Wolfpack, Bill Hileman with the Maddogs all examples of coaches that were doing just that. A couple of these coaches are somewhat difficult to play for, demanding outspoken etc. Bill coached the Maddogs to a top 20 finish at Gold Nationals (this was before PGF), and his teams spent a good part of the summer at the most competitive tournaments available. Many years though these teams would attract good talent, but often were less talented then teams like Lasers. Players/parents did not want to make the time (practice 2-3 times a week all winter) and monetary commitment (team fees were $1000 per player ten years ago that did not include travel expenses) to play on these teams, and were often put off by the desire of the coaches to carry a slightly larger roster.
Until organizations find a way to get coaches to stay at age levels and utilize the contacts for both the tournaments and colleges players will look for opportunities outside of Ohio. I see a few signs of it happening, but Ohio could support several teams that can play on higher levels, but it takes commitment from coaches, parents and organizations."
"There are some things that few teams in Ohio have been able to do successfully. One of those is to get established coaches that are willing AND able to stay at the age group where recruiting occurs. Some of the organizations you mentioned have coaches with established contacts with tournaments and college coaches. Some of the tournaments it is not how good you are, but is who you know. Most organizations in Ohio have coaches that start an age group and follow it through. Ohio has a few teams that do or have had coaches that stay at an age group. Most of them that I know of however have stayed at the 18U group. Elliot Thompson who coaches the Ohio Bandits (Akron area) has been coaching that team since about the mid 90's, Jamie Wolff with the Wolfpack, Bill Hileman with the Maddogs all examples of coaches that were doing just that. A couple of these coaches are somewhat difficult to play for, demanding outspoken etc. Bill coached the Maddogs to a top 20 finish at Gold Nationals (this was before PGF), and his teams spent a good part of the summer at the most competitive tournaments available. Many years though these teams would attract good talent, but often were less talented then teams like Lasers. Players/parents did not want to make the time (practice 2-3 times a week all winter) and monetary commitment (team fees were $1000 per player ten years ago that did not include travel expenses) to play on these teams, and were often put off by the desire of the coaches to carry a slightly larger roster.
Until organizations find a way to get coaches to stay at age levels and utilize the contacts for both the tournaments and colleges players will look for opportunities outside of Ohio. I see a few signs of it happening, but Ohio could support several teams that can play on higher levels, but it takes commitment from coaches, parents and organizations."
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In my honest opinion, I think families are simply seeking out what they want. We only have so many of the teams that are involved in the travel ball at the level some of these families want to be a part of. That doesn't mean the talent isn't here. It's simply a personal choice. When individuals have tried to recruit Ohio players to participate, it seems like they have never been able to pull it off. People don't trust those involved or timing is bad. Bottom line; this isn't easy and it costs a lot of money.
The simple path is to get into a program already doing it. If the Ohio programs are full, it's only natural that if you have the money you'd begin looking for a fit with a program in a neighboring state. It doesn't mean they're better. They simply can take a few more players on. This practice has been going on out west for years.
I'm aware of a young lady from Oregon that was a member of a top-ranked team in Ca. and spent her entire high school junior age season traveling by plane to wherever they were playing and most of the summer living out of motel rooms while traveling on a touring bus with them. All this and she never took the field for even an inning. She ended up a designated runner for one of the pitchers on the team. A pitcher that couldn't hit. I believe her dad told me he spent $14000 that season for fees while still oweing for her travel expenses, the things over and above the normal stuff.
Did she have talent? Yes, but the thing she had more of was money. Did she learn anything? Actually yes. Did it help her get into college? Actually no. She went to a NCAA D-3 school on her academics but was a starter there all 4 years on the softball team. Did the organization's reputation get her noticed? Yes. Was it the experience of a life time? In her case yes as she had the time of her life doing it. Would her parents do it again? Absolutely not! They felt used and cheated.
The simple path is to get into a program already doing it. If the Ohio programs are full, it's only natural that if you have the money you'd begin looking for a fit with a program in a neighboring state. It doesn't mean they're better. They simply can take a few more players on. This practice has been going on out west for years.
I'm aware of a young lady from Oregon that was a member of a top-ranked team in Ca. and spent her entire high school junior age season traveling by plane to wherever they were playing and most of the summer living out of motel rooms while traveling on a touring bus with them. All this and she never took the field for even an inning. She ended up a designated runner for one of the pitchers on the team. A pitcher that couldn't hit. I believe her dad told me he spent $14000 that season for fees while still oweing for her travel expenses, the things over and above the normal stuff.
Did she have talent? Yes, but the thing she had more of was money. Did she learn anything? Actually yes. Did it help her get into college? Actually no. She went to a NCAA D-3 school on her academics but was a starter there all 4 years on the softball team. Did the organization's reputation get her noticed? Yes. Was it the experience of a life time? In her case yes as she had the time of her life doing it. Would her parents do it again? Absolutely not! They felt used and cheated.
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There have been a lot of great points made and a lot of great insight throughout this thread that certainly have made me think about the subject more, including the ones in the post above about the benefits of coaches staying at those key age levels. What can't be underestimated though too is that first and foremost it takes a very talented player, a very committed player, and a committed family structure around them to make it happen. If you don't have all 3 of those things upfront, it's got to be very difficult. But then good organizations and coaches can certainly help facilitate things a lot with their ability to get into top tournaments and the credibility they have from the college coaching ranks. I sometimes have issues with the approaches that some coaches and organizations take, but it's hard to argue with success. I think there are different ways to get there and players can certainly overcome any disadvantages they may have, but I agree with the comment that it takes commitment from a variety of sources to make it happen ... and some of these out of state teams certainly can be part of the equation.
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I always love reading about how this or that will "prepare your daughter for college ball." I've watched a lot of college ball. By and large, it isn't that good. Ourside of the top 25 teams or so in Division 1, it's actually pretty weak. The pitching is nothing special. The infielders rarely make anything but routine plays. The outfielders don't get great jumps. No instincts from baserunners. They're just a bunch of decent travel ball teams with college uniforms and coaches who pretend they're in the "big time." Here's what really should make all of us angry. Take a look at the rosters of most MAC teams. What do you see? You see these coaches are going to California to find pitchers and other key players. Example: Western Michigan has a freshman infielder from a weak conference outside of L.A. If the kid wasn't good enough to play at one of three dozen schools in California, or in Arizona or Nevada or New Mexico or Texas or somewhere else closer than two thousand miles from home, then how weak is the MAC that she's a scholarship player at WMU? You're telling me this coach couldn't find a similar player in Michigan, or Indiana or Ohio? Puleeeeze.
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IMO, some of the elite Ohio teams appear to have a turnover issue. Some of this is attributed to WAY too many teams promising illogical results and scheduling. I think some of our coaches fail to realize just how difficult it is to field a top level team and get into the high profile tournaments. It simply doesn't happen overnight.
I like to relate the movement to Bandits just as we do in everyday life. You want the best for your kids so you try to have them be relative to the times....meaning....if they need the newest clothes, gadgets or equipment you go with what you know is the best. Usually, this comes down to name brand and how much you can afford. Unfortunately, money does play a huge role in what we can actually buy or participate in.
Brand name is huge in human circles. At the current time, the Bandits' name is just simply more prevalent on the national stage than most teams from Ohio. Not only Ohio but it's a highly respected name throughout the country. High quality brand names don't happen overnight.
There are some major players trying to make a move with Ohio talent while remaining in Ohio: Doom Gold, MVE Gold, Lasers, Nightmare Gold and Stingrays. The main attribute these teams all have in common is longevity. These organizations have established themselves as teams who work their butts off to maintain the elite level of players, coaching and top tier tournament competition. ***Before you PM me with 100 other names, yes, I do realize there are other high quality teams in Ohio.***
Think of it this way before you think negatively about kids moving to Bandits or Magic Gold -- you obviously know these names because they are extremely high profile. Is it fair to think lessor of a family that wants to be a part of this team just because of where they are geographically? If it were me and my kid could make it as opposed to the 100's or 1,000's of other teams between here and there - you better believe I would do everything I could to at least give it a shot.
I like to relate the movement to Bandits just as we do in everyday life. You want the best for your kids so you try to have them be relative to the times....meaning....if they need the newest clothes, gadgets or equipment you go with what you know is the best. Usually, this comes down to name brand and how much you can afford. Unfortunately, money does play a huge role in what we can actually buy or participate in.
Brand name is huge in human circles. At the current time, the Bandits' name is just simply more prevalent on the national stage than most teams from Ohio. Not only Ohio but it's a highly respected name throughout the country. High quality brand names don't happen overnight.
There are some major players trying to make a move with Ohio talent while remaining in Ohio: Doom Gold, MVE Gold, Lasers, Nightmare Gold and Stingrays. The main attribute these teams all have in common is longevity. These organizations have established themselves as teams who work their butts off to maintain the elite level of players, coaching and top tier tournament competition. ***Before you PM me with 100 other names, yes, I do realize there are other high quality teams in Ohio.***
Think of it this way before you think negatively about kids moving to Bandits or Magic Gold -- you obviously know these names because they are extremely high profile. Is it fair to think lessor of a family that wants to be a part of this team just because of where they are geographically? If it were me and my kid could make it as opposed to the 100's or 1,000's of other teams between here and there - you better believe I would do everything I could to at least give it a shot.
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think teams like Doom, Nightmare and Lasers are putting girls in D1 programs just like the Bandits and Magic, I know several of the Bandits girls that were with other programs when they got there offers. There are teams in Ohio that play a great travel schedule, maybe they don't go to CA,FL or TX every weekend but I know for a fact my team plays a great schedule and get plenty of attention from coaches and I also know that we don't feed our players a line of BS. So if players want to travel to CA,FL and TX every tournament then that's great and should go for it, but don't say there are NO Ohio teams that go play in big tournaments.
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OK Since I have a personal insight into what when and why some kids want to pursue a higher level of travel ball. Let me give u my dd's credentials first.
12u. Played With the lasers silver as a 11 year old -finished in top 10 at the ASA/USA 12U nationals tourney. Todd wallace coaching. He brought in numerous college coaches to train and workout an already talent laden team. Folded because of parent disagreements
12U and 14U. Played with Ohio Slammers as a 12-13 year old. Whew, what a team. Bill Lilley brought in a crazy amount of college coaches and had college level training for the girls that made them VERY good. Team folded because of parent disagreements. (personal opinions of Mr Lilley vary, but he was never anything but respectful and professional to my daughter and my family). Finished in top 15 at ASA nationals.
14U - Ohio Lasers Scarlet, WOW. JP had those girls laser focused and ready to rock, he put the girls in situations that they had never been in before. Challenging, crazy training, type stuff. My dd fed off of it and grew enormously. She had the bug, the big game bug. She decided then and there that she wanted to be in the big games with the big girls playing the highest level of softball she could possibly play in. Finished in top 25 ASA nationals
16U - Bill Conroy called (the beverly bandits). (i guess my dd might have started this bandits trend!)He had heard of her and seen her play. Although he was brutally honest about her skill set, he thought she could play on the national circuit and he committed to her to make her better if she would commit to herself to do the same. We told her it wasn't our decision, since Bill had asked her, and asked for her commitment, it was her call. She was salivating for more of what she had received the past few years, in the way of training, focus, and games against all the big name teams. OC bat busters SO Cal athletics, Corona Angels etc etc. she longed to go against the best. After she had made her choice, we found a way to get her where SHE wanted be. It was not easy, and to think that you have to be financially loaded to accomplish this is completely untrue. We got help from other parents, drove quite a few miles, and scrimped as much as we could. But isn't that what parents do?
Now onto the original question. My dd wanted to be the best she could. She did her part, she worked hard, she didn't complain, she pushed us as parents to help her. We told her we weren't interested if her work ethic didn't equal our commitment monetarily. Yeah we gave up a lot in the way of dinners out, not having the fanciest clothes, the car we have has 150000 on it, but we were able to do it. She surpassed her commitment to us, and then some. Now as a college freshman she is loving the college experience. Getting good grades, doing well on the field, and more importantly, she is setting up her life for after softball.
See, the lessons we were able to participate n with her will guide her through her life... it's not about going to Chicago Louuuu, and bragging to the neighbors like you so nastily put in ur reply, but what the kid gets out of it and carries thru to her kids and others. I gladly gave up 5 years to make a better daughter. Yeah I am broke now, but oh we'll, you only have one shot!
Herb
12u. Played With the lasers silver as a 11 year old -finished in top 10 at the ASA/USA 12U nationals tourney. Todd wallace coaching. He brought in numerous college coaches to train and workout an already talent laden team. Folded because of parent disagreements
12U and 14U. Played with Ohio Slammers as a 12-13 year old. Whew, what a team. Bill Lilley brought in a crazy amount of college coaches and had college level training for the girls that made them VERY good. Team folded because of parent disagreements. (personal opinions of Mr Lilley vary, but he was never anything but respectful and professional to my daughter and my family). Finished in top 15 at ASA nationals.
14U - Ohio Lasers Scarlet, WOW. JP had those girls laser focused and ready to rock, he put the girls in situations that they had never been in before. Challenging, crazy training, type stuff. My dd fed off of it and grew enormously. She had the bug, the big game bug. She decided then and there that she wanted to be in the big games with the big girls playing the highest level of softball she could possibly play in. Finished in top 25 ASA nationals
16U - Bill Conroy called (the beverly bandits). (i guess my dd might have started this bandits trend!)He had heard of her and seen her play. Although he was brutally honest about her skill set, he thought she could play on the national circuit and he committed to her to make her better if she would commit to herself to do the same. We told her it wasn't our decision, since Bill had asked her, and asked for her commitment, it was her call. She was salivating for more of what she had received the past few years, in the way of training, focus, and games against all the big name teams. OC bat busters SO Cal athletics, Corona Angels etc etc. she longed to go against the best. After she had made her choice, we found a way to get her where SHE wanted be. It was not easy, and to think that you have to be financially loaded to accomplish this is completely untrue. We got help from other parents, drove quite a few miles, and scrimped as much as we could. But isn't that what parents do?
Now onto the original question. My dd wanted to be the best she could. She did her part, she worked hard, she didn't complain, she pushed us as parents to help her. We told her we weren't interested if her work ethic didn't equal our commitment monetarily. Yeah we gave up a lot in the way of dinners out, not having the fanciest clothes, the car we have has 150000 on it, but we were able to do it. She surpassed her commitment to us, and then some. Now as a college freshman she is loving the college experience. Getting good grades, doing well on the field, and more importantly, she is setting up her life for after softball.
See, the lessons we were able to participate n with her will guide her through her life... it's not about going to Chicago Louuuu, and bragging to the neighbors like you so nastily put in ur reply, but what the kid gets out of it and carries thru to her kids and others. I gladly gave up 5 years to make a better daughter. Yeah I am broke now, but oh we'll, you only have one shot!
Herb
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Herb - well stated and congrats!!!
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It's funny, I have been following this thread and ones like it in the past, and chuckle...the prior two posts really put it in perspective...we live in Lousville, KY, and there is one (1) quality organization in the state, but they were NOT the team for my DD, and she has never wanted to play with them. A couple summers ago, she wanted more, just like Herb's DD...that is when I found OFC....I researched teams from TN, IL, IN, OH. We talked about teams she had faced at different tournaments, and went to a number of tryouts, ALL 2-4 hours drive....after all of that; a 14 YO girl wanting more but not knowing what to do, and me knowing what had to be done, were blessed enough to find a team, the right team....in Ohio!!.....she is now starting her 3rd fall season with the Doom, and couldn't be happier, nor could I......it's all perspective I guess in some respect, but I can promise you it has nothing to do with bragging, to believe anything along those lines to me is small minded and petty....other parents I know here think I am NUTS, but they also know her dedication, devotion and drive, and the reality of ball around here....I joke that sometimes all I am is the wallet and the wheels, but it's more than that....I am having as much fun on this ride as she is, and after she heads off to college to play, her dream will go on....none of this would have happened had she stayed in Louisville.....and everything Tim stated above is correct not only about the Doom, but the other top shelf OH teams....I'm just glad my DD found one!!
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Killer post, Herb, that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! 
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First of all I would like to say congratulations and this is probably the best post I have ever read on the OFC.
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over the years I've received a handful of PM's from parents whose kids choose to play out of state , 99.9 % sound just like Herbs.... . it isnt about ego at all. The girls just want to play the best as often as possible . MD
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For anyone to say Ohio teams as a whole dont play where the top teams go is pretty much incorrect And a slap in the face to coaches that are putting kids in college. For Years Cincy storm was doing the big ones and got constantly ridiculed for doing so. He diddnt always have the top talent but he played in some of the top tourneys. Doom is another one, Tim takes his troop on the road to some of the top spots. I could name you 5 or 6 other clubs that do the same.
There will always be petty jealousies from either kids that do not play at that level or parents that either dont understand it or cant afford for their kid to play there. The bottom line is your dd should play for a team that will garnish her the biggest amount of exposure for the price you pay whether in this state or another.
For there to be more teams from Ohio representing the big stage there needs to be 2 things happen.
1) The talent level as a whole in the state needs to expand. Not only improve but grow in size. There are some really talented kids here. The issue is there isnt enough.
2) High quality coaches that have contacts with colleges and TD,s from these type of tourys that are willing to hang around after their dd has gotten hers and put the next wave of kids through. And have the proper backing from their respective Orgs to help make that happen.
Softball in this state has come a long way since the Chill, coke and ice and slammers. You are seeing more and more clubs trying to expand into the college exposure market. I for one think its a good thing. Let kids play where their dream takes them. If the parents can afford it and the Team is successful in putting her in college Then that to me is the top org in this or any other state.
Tim
There will always be petty jealousies from either kids that do not play at that level or parents that either dont understand it or cant afford for their kid to play there. The bottom line is your dd should play for a team that will garnish her the biggest amount of exposure for the price you pay whether in this state or another.
For there to be more teams from Ohio representing the big stage there needs to be 2 things happen.
1) The talent level as a whole in the state needs to expand. Not only improve but grow in size. There are some really talented kids here. The issue is there isnt enough.
2) High quality coaches that have contacts with colleges and TD,s from these type of tourys that are willing to hang around after their dd has gotten hers and put the next wave of kids through. And have the proper backing from their respective Orgs to help make that happen.
Softball in this state has come a long way since the Chill, coke and ice and slammers. You are seeing more and more clubs trying to expand into the college exposure market. I for one think its a good thing. Let kids play where their dream takes them. If the parents can afford it and the Team is successful in putting her in college Then that to me is the top org in this or any other state.
Tim
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Imho enough total, think about it, if there were more we would see more teams. Supply and demand
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With the exception of D3 college (sorry, no disrespect intended) this couldn't be farther from thetruth. You can bring the best 16u and 18u travel team in Ohio and the mid-west and probably most out west and play a D1 or D2 college and those "decent travel ball teams with college uniforms" will kick their butts all over the field. but im only a 22 year old kid playing SEC ball, what do I know.....
Then this
We go from one of the worst posts to one of the best posts. VERY well said Herb..
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I couldn't agree more! I understand the argument folks are trying to make about diluted talent, but in my mind if a girl wants travel select there is a team out there for them! it might be the Lasers, Stringrays, Hawks, Static, etc. but there is a team. And if she learns, gets better, spends time with good folks, it is all worth it. My dd is not a standout on my Select team (she doesn't even start), but the experience has made her better and she stacked up quite well on her Jr. high team. We live in a very large school district and if you aren't playing Select, you are falling behind. In the 3+ years that our organization has been in existence, there was been only one girl who didn't make her school team (another story, another time).
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With gas at $4.00/gal and rising....a lot more than it did 4 years ago ;&
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We got an invite and a contract from the EC Bullets Gold out of Georgia. It was $3500 to play. Then there were lots of clauses and requirements listed in the contract spelling out behavior of both the player and the parents.
Things that you were allowed to say and not allowed to say. And you had to commit to being at the Gold tournaments. If you did not live up to any part of the signed contract, you were gone and no money back.
then you were also for all your own travel arrangements and costs.
