Notre Dame

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Recently Notre Dame has been in headlines for their higher standards for football players then other big time schools. Mike and Mike is discussing would you lower your standards to your beloved school for chance at national championship.

Would you lower your standards to get that one absolutely stud pitcher and catcher for a chance at Oklahoma City? For argument sake high school GPA of 2.2 and ACT of 16 (this isnot to offend anyone) but we all know girl athletes seem to be put on higher standards then avg. football players.

 

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Recently Notre Dame has been in headlines for their higher standards for football players then other big time schools. Mike and Mike is discussing would you lower your standards to your beloved school for chance at national championship.

Would you lower your standards to get that one absolutely stud pitcher and catcher for a chance at Oklahoma City? For argument sake high school GPA of 2.2 and ACT of 16 (this isnot to offend anyone) but we all know girl athletes seem to be put on higher standards then avg. football players.

Some of the best women softball players in the world also have had the highest academic standards. In nearly every university, the women's GPA's outstrip the men, especially the football team. There are many gifted athletes, both academically and athletically. But they are just harder to find. DD's softball program typically had the most attendees at the annual honors awards banquet.

It's just easier to be a "stupid" football player if society accepts it as the norm. Colleges have bought into the concept of lowering their standards in the football program and letting the other sports "carry" their GPA for them. Most top college programs are nothing more than breeeding grounds for the NFL.

In the end as a university, it's all about what you really want your athletics to stand for.

 

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ND is an awesome place but the fan base is a bunch of whiners.

They are not the only college that tries to actually have student/athletes. Stanford and Northwestern are a couple off the top of my head. It was a decision the school made years ago and the coaches keep complaining instead of getting to work. Beat the bushes and get the smart good athletes. Stanford has done a great job. And NW is respectable.

As far as what I would be happy with at my old stomping grounds? Just do not embarrass the school. I think a "dumb" softball player is twice as smart as most football players......sorry but I have found softball to be the land of smart athletes. Not sure why. Maybe it is the demands of the sport but we were checking the girls on our 14U team and 8 out of 13 have 4.0s. And the rest are above a 3.5 grade point.

Now if we are talking football. MSU is never going to be allowed by the B10 to go to far out of line. The B10 runs a tight ship and even OSUs offenses seemed pretty mild to me compared to the $EC. College football is what it is. A big business that generate the revenue for most of the rest of the athletic department and sports.

 

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Being a ND Fan and the brother of a ND softball coach I can tell you that NONE of the coaches at ND are complaining about having or finding student/athletes. They knew this when they accepted the coaching position at ND. So to say stop complaining and get to work, is just not fair. I am sure my sister would love to show you her travel log and how much time she spends away from her 2 little girls out there "beating the bushes". The reality is that most kids can get into ND, especially female athletes, it is just some do not want to put forth the effort. The sad part is opposing coaches recruit against high acedemic standards, statements like "the coach from State U says that I would struggle in the classroom at ND" are told to my sister all the time. What it comes down to is does the athlete want to put forth the effort in the classroom as well as on the athletic field? Sadly there are many who do not want to do both.

As far as football is concerned, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Like stated above the football program pretty much funds the athletic department and the city they are located in. For example each ND home game brings the city of South Bend Indiana about 10 to 12 million dollars. Multiply that by 6 home dates and that is a lot of money.

The discussion on Mike and Mike started by a ND radio host saying a stupid comment about needing criminals on NCAA football teams to be competitive. He was wrong and will most likely lose his job over this statement.

 

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Being a ND Fan and the brother of a ND softball coach I can tell you that NONE of the coaches at ND are complaining about having or finding student/athletes. They knew this when they accepted the coaching position at ND. So to say stop complaining and get to work, is just not fair. I am sure my sister would love to show you her travel log and how much time she spends away from her 2 little girls out there "beating the bushes". The reality is that most kids can get into ND, especially female athletes, it is just some do not want to put forth the effort. The sad part is opposing coaches recruit against high acedemic standards, statements like "the coach from State U says that I would struggle in the classroom at ND" are told to my sister all the time. What it comes down to is does the athlete want to put forth the effort in the classroom as well as on the athletic field? Sadly there are many who do not want to do both.

As far as football is concerned, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Like stated above the football program pretty much funds the athletic department and the city they are located in. For example each ND home game brings the city of South Bend Indiana about 10 to 12 million dollars. Multiply that by 6 home dates and that is a lot of money.

The discussion on Mike and Mike started by a ND radio host saying a stupid comment about needing criminals on NCAA football teams to be competitive. He was wrong and will most likely lose his job over this statement.

The stupid comment came from a former ND football player...

 

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Being a ND Fan and the brother of a ND softball coach I can tell you that NONE of the coaches at ND are complaining about having or finding student/athletes. They knew this when they accepted the coaching position at ND. So to say stop complaining and get to work, is just not fair. I am sure my sister would love to show you her travel log and how much time she spends away from her 2 little girls out there "beating the bushes". The reality is that most kids can get into ND, especially female athletes, it is just some do not want to put forth the effort. The sad part is opposing coaches recruit against high acedemic standards, statements like "the coach from State U says that I would struggle in the classroom at ND" are told to my sister all the time. What it comes down to is does the athlete want to put forth the effort in the classroom as well as on the athletic field? Sadly there are many who do not want to do both.

As far as football is concerned, it is like comparing apples to oranges. Like stated above the football program pretty much funds the athletic department and the city they are located in. For example each ND home game brings the city of South Bend Indiana about 10 to 12 million dollars. Multiply that by 6 home dates and that is a lot of money.

The discussion on Mike and Mike started by a ND radio host saying a stupid comment about needing criminals on NCAA football teams to be competitive. He was wrong and will most likely lose his job over this statement.

I should have been much more clear.

Almost all of my statements were in regards to Football. I love ND. After MSU they are by far my favorite team. My kids all go to Catholic HS and it would be my dream for them to go to ND. But the football fan base is irrational at best. I will say that they are the most sincere group and the friendliest stadium I have ever been to bar none. But they can win big on the national stage if they get the right players. And they are out there. If Stanford and Boise State can do it, Notre Dame can also. BUT I think it will be more of an every 4-5 year peak. It will be on years they have a senior QB that is pro level. So my comment about getting to work was focused solely on football. I know that the biggest hurdle with most of the non-revenue sports is getting the commitment from the players. The coaches do not have the leverage that the football and BB coaches do to demand commitment. If a girls is great at softball she gets to be All American and that is probably it........while if a football player is all B10 they will most likely get drafted and maybe hit the lottery by getting signed. WAY more leverage and incentive.

Softball...........well I am coming to the sad conclusion that if you do not have one of the top 5 pitchers in D1 your chances of winning big are almost zero. It is almost like pro football in that without a top 5 QB you will struggle. And the truth is that the Midwest just is not spitting out many pitchers of that caliber. I am not really sure why. It must just be a numbers game. ND coach is up against it just like all the other Midwest teams. Unless she can turn one of the big horses from out West she will struggle.

As far as my college. MSU had a rough year last year. But we know the coach and go to the games. The coach is all class and the girls are all better for being on that team. They just need to focus on getting more pitching. I do not think she would ever soften her stance on academic performance for wins. It is not why she coaches.

 

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Great topic. DD has seen first-hand the grade expectations of UA's softball coach and was told by her summer coach (a Kent player) that Kent's coach won't even consider a player no matter how great she is if her GPA isn't at least a 3.4.
DD is a solid pitcher, improving over time, and has the brains to be an honor student. However, the biggest hurdle for her playing in college is her grades. If she spent as much time on homework completion as she does on softball practice she would carry a 4.0. The start of this school year seems to be better, keeping my fingers crossed that the academic efforts continue.

 

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Stanford raised there standards about 10 years ago, hurt them in football for a number of years but look where they are getting to now.

 

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The stupid comment came from a former ND football player...

Ok and your point? He WAS also the color man for the radio broadcasts. It was still a stupid comment, he just got sent home from Ireland for saying them.

 

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I should have been much more clear.

Almost all of my statements were in regards to Football. I love ND. After MSU they are by far my favorite team. My kids all go to Catholic HS and it would be my dream for them to go to ND. But the football fan base is irrational at best. I will say that they are the most sincere group and the friendliest stadium I have ever been to bar none. But they can win big on the national stage if they get the right players. And they are out there. If Stanford and Boise State can do it, Notre Dame can also. BUT I think it will be more of an every 4-5 year peak. It will be on years they have a senior QB that is pro level. So my comment about getting to work was focused solely on football. I know that the biggest hurdle with most of the non-revenue sports is getting the commitment from the players. The coaches do not have the leverage that the football and BB coaches do to demand commitment. If a girls is great at softball she gets to be All American and that is probably it........while if a football player is all B10 they will most likely get drafted and maybe hit the lottery by getting signed. WAY more leverage and incentive.

Softball...........well I am coming to the sad conclusion that if you do not have one of the top 5 pitchers in D1 your chances of winning big are almost zero. It is almost like pro football in that without a top 5 QB you will struggle. And the truth is that the Midwest just is not spitting out many pitchers of that caliber. I am not really sure why. It must just be a numbers game. ND coach is up against it just like all the other Midwest teams. Unless she can turn one of the big horses from out West she will struggle.

As far as my college. MSU had a rough year last year. But we know the coach and go to the games. The coach is all class and the girls are all better for being on that team. They just need to focus on getting more pitching. I do not think she would ever soften her stance on academic performance for wins. It is not why she coaches.

I might have come across harsh also and I am sorry if I did. And I agree totally with your softball statements about pitching.

 

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Notre Dame is no longer the Catholic flagship university of the past, so I am not so sure why they would dig their heels in on the the issue of GPA and ACT scores. If the professors don't follow what the USCCB mandates, then why shouldn't they allow lower scoring students in. Notre Dame is just a business, and absent a soul like so many other schools.

 

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Notre Dame is no longer the Catholic flagship university of the past, so I am not so sure why they would dig their heels in on the the issue of GPA and ACT scores. If the professors don't follow what the USCCB mandates, then why shouldn't they allow lower scoring students in. Notre Dame is just a business, and absent a soul like so many other schools.

Could not disagree more, but you have the right to your opinion.

 

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There still is something about that ND logo. I only mentioned Notre Dame because they have been in the news.

Would a softball coach take Cat Osterman if she had lower grades?

 

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Being a ND Fan and the brother of a ND softball coach I can tell you that NONE of the coaches at ND are complaining about having or finding student/athletes. They knew this when they accepted the coaching position at ND. So to say stop complaining and get to work, is just not fair. I am sure my sister would love to show you her travel log and how much time she spends away from her 2 little girls out there "beating the bushes". The reality is that most kids can get into ND, especially female athletes, it is just some do not want to put forth the effort. The sad part is opposing coaches recruit against high acedemic standards, statements like "the coach from State U says that I would struggle in the classroom at ND" are told to my sister all the time. What it comes down to is does the athlete want to put forth the effort in the classroom as well as on the athletic field? Sadly there are many who do not want to do both

Excellent point NDBro

I agree the comment is not fair. Knowing a couple of the players, it was not there decision to go to ND to have the cupcake academic, as well as athletic, schedule. They went ther for the right reason, to get a great education that has the ND seal at the bottom of the sheepskin. As for the cat osterman reference, I don't think Deanna, Kris, or
Lizzy would make a decision on compromising there softball or academic program on "one stud pitcher". It just isn't worth it to the program or to ND as an institution.

Effort and heart win out over natural skill and a "get by attitude" in life. You can't throw a softball into the corporate boardroom and expect to win...

Herb

 

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Could not disagree more, but you have the right to your opinion.

. No offense meant here, but you would think that Notre Dame would lower its academic standards before its theological standards, but just the opposite happened. All I have to say is if they can use Kathleen Sebellius as a commencement speaker, their theological standards have dropped miserably low, so relaxing academic standards should not be difficult at all.

 

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. No offense meant here, but you would think that Notre Dame would lower its academic standards before its theological standards, but just the opposite happened. All I have to say is if they can use Kathleen Sebellius as a commencement speaker, their theological standards have dropped miserably low, so relaxing academic standards should not be difficult at all.

No offense taken. Sebelius spoke at Georgetown University not ND. In fact ND in May of this year filed a lawsuit against Sebelius and the HHS. Anyhow back to softball....I think that at all programs have some "wiggle room" to get players they want into school. Just that the "wiggle room" at some schools is wider than others.

 

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No offense taken. Sebelius spoke at Georgetown University not ND. In fact ND in May of this year filed a lawsuit against Sebelius and the HHS. Anyhow back to softball....I think that at all programs have some "wiggle room" to get players they want into school. Just that the "wiggle room" at some schools is wider than others.

But, BO did speak at the 2009 commencement at the request of ND, and that was one of the lowest blows that could have been served. Again, relaxed theological standards of Notre Dame, so why not relax the less important academic standards?

 

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But, BO did speak at the 2009 commencement at the request of ND, and that was one of the lowest blows that could have been served. Again, relaxed theological standards of Notre Dame, so why not relax the less important academic standards?

Yes he did and as Father Jenkins said,

"As the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council wrote in their pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes: “Respect and love ought to be extended also to those who think or act differently than we do in social, political and even religious matters. In fact, the more deeply we come to understand their ways of thinking through such courtesy and love, the more easily will we be able to enter into dialogue with them.”


The standards are different. And let’s not pretend the Irish are unique in that regard. Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke and Rice all have standards that are every bit as high as Notre Dame’s. The difference is ND wants these standards on the field too. The bar’s higher than most, but it’s always been lowered for those who can run 4.4 in the 40-yard dash, or those who are 6-5, 300 pounds. To lower their standards anymore would just make them just another college athletic program. So the whole point of this topic was about how a former ND player and current broadcaster saying the Irish needing more “criminals” in order to be successful. Do Notre Dame fans want that? To let anybody in? To be just another college football program? To lose that specialness, to lose their identity?

Doubt it. No, Notre Dame wants it both ways. That’s the trick. And as the Irish have found out in the modern TV age, in which every university is national, in which every program is big-time, in which every coach can reach every player in every state, it’s a tough one to pull off.

 

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Yes he did and as Father Jenkins said,

"As the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council wrote in their pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes: ?Respect and love ought to be extended also to those who think or act differently than we do in social, political and even religious matters. In fact, the more deeply we come to understand their ways of thinking through such courtesy and love, the more easily will we be able to enter into dialogue with them.?


The standards are different. And let?s not pretend the Irish are unique in that regard. Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, Duke and Rice all have standards that are every bit as high as Notre Dame?s. The difference is ND wants these standards on the field too. The bar?s higher than most, but it?s always been lowered for those who can run 4.4 in the 40-yard dash, or those who are 6-5, 300 pounds. To lower their standards anymore would just make them just another college athletic program. So the whole point of this topic was about how a former ND player and current broadcaster saying the Irish needing more ?criminals? in order to be successful. Do Notre Dame fans want that? To let anybody in? To be just another college football program? To lose that specialness, to lose their identity?

Doubt it. No, Notre Dame wants it both ways. That?s the trick. And as the Irish have found out in the modern TV age, in which every university is national, in which every program is big-time, in which every coach can reach every player in every state, it?s a tough one to pull off.

No, what is at heart of the matter is that Notre Dame is losing its core orthodox Catholicism by not accepting a kid with a 3.2 GPA with a 22 ACT who is a great Catholic, and a great shortstop, but accepting a 4.0 GPA student with an 30 ACT score who could be a hard core athiest, and not so good as a shortstop.

What further complicates ND's troubles is how little the kids are taught in its theology, and how little they believe in the mass, transubstantiation, trinity, apostolic succession, or the passion, but yet they will tolerate Muslim students asking for crusifixes to be removed from classrooms, because it offends their faith. By the way, I wonder how heavy is the student attendance on Sunday at the Bascilica, and how many of the non-believers attend the 10:45 mass as well?

When Bo came to Notre Dame, he gave his commencement speech to the students, and was not allowed questions, so no dialogue was apparant. His mandates offend us, as they were intended, and so much for the dialogue with the USCCB.

No disrespect intended, but ND has pushed the academics far beyond the needs of the Catholic base it serves, and filled its faculty with secularists that have their own agendas. Unfortunately, it has lost its shine, and daughters like mine don't see the difference between it or any other state school. What the heck has happened?

 

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Ndsoftball dont forget that PSU thought they were special too. (And in no way am I trying to associate the two schools in any other way!)

I believe sherman1 hit the nail on the head when he said colleges are businesses. I agree totally.

I also would go one step further in saying that Ive always believed that athletes that have no real intentions of getting an education in college have no business participating in colleges athletics.

Maybe someone needs to open Basketweaving University so that the athletes that just want an inbetween step from high school to the pros can go play their sports without interfering with the higher education process...

(I'm thinking I should probably delete this before I hit post reply...)