Ohio ASA National Qualifier Format

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What is the format used in Ohio for ASA National Qualifiers?

 

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2 pp, dbl elim usually.... is that what you are asking?

 

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Four teams in the pool, initial pairing is random, then winners play winners and losers play losers for the pool seeding. Not so many years ago there were three pool games, but most have gone to this format.

 

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I think it is interesting to hear how different each state is regarding these qualifiers. Our Florida ASA JO runs ALL the qualifiers. She does a great job and they use a system that is endorsed by ASA/USA. It is a bit convaluted, but it works. It is a predetermined (by software) bracket that is double elimination, but a 3 GG. Lose your first two and you go to a consolation tournament that does not feed back into the main tournament. If your second loss is on or after your 3rd game you are done. In the ASA State or an ASA "territory" Nationals qualifier the teams that have berths can play all the way through the tournament. The berth os passed down. If it is a regular Florida only qualifier a team with a berth can play but in essence "loses" the first two games and goes into the consolation bracket. The teams they play in the main bracket are credited with a win regardless of the outcome.

Personally I like this much better than worrying about pool play. What do you folks think about this format?

 

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I think it is interesting to hear how different each state is regarding these qualifiers. Our Florida ASA JO runs ALL the qualifiers.

ASA people run all championship play tournaments out here. Consequently, the state tourneys for most age groups are on different weekends, starting with 10u and 12u on Memorial Day weekend. The other qualifiers in the region, NQs and regionals, are hosted by member associations.

She does a great job and they use a system that is endorsed by ASA/USA. It is a bit convaluted, but it works. It is a predetermined (by software) bracket that is double elimination, but a 3 GG. Lose your first two and you go to a consolation tournament that does not feed back into the main tournament. If your second loss is on or after your 3rd game you are done.

Is the consolation bracket just for the teams that lost their first 2 games or is it for all the teams that were eliminated in the first round of the losers bracket? Most tournaments have some teams playing 2 games in the first round of the winners and/or losers brackets - and there's no way to know ahead of time how many teams will lose their first 2 games.

The HOF tourney in OKC uses an interesting 3-game format that keeps all the teams alive for at least 3 games. The first round of the losers bracket consists of 2 passes and the 2nd pass pits winners vs losers of the 1st pass. http://downloads.asasoftball.com/tournaments/pdf/bracket3948.pdf

In the ASA State or an ASA "territory" Nationals qualifier the teams that have berths can play all the way through the tournament. The berth os passed down. If it is a regular Florida only qualifier a team with a berth can play but in essence "loses" the first two games and goes into the consolation bracket. The teams they play in the main bracket are credited with a win regardless of the outcome.

What is a Florida only qualifier vs. the ASA State tourney?

Personally I like this much better than worrying about pool play.

We don't have pool play in our State tourneys because of the large number of teams. It's tough enough getting the double elim done in one weekend.

 

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Format is no Floridians........

 

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ASA people run all championship play tournaments out here. Consequently, the state tourneys for most age groups are on different weekends, starting with 10u and 12u on Memorial Day weekend. The other qualifiers in the region, NQs and regionals, are hosted by member associations.


Is the consolation bracket just for the teams that lost their first 2 games or is it for all the teams that were eliminated in the first round of the losers bracket? Most tournaments have some teams playing 2 games in the first round of the winners and/or losers brackets - and there's no way to know ahead of time how many teams will lose their first 2 games.


The HOF tourney in OKC uses an interesting 3-game format that keeps all the teams alive for at least 3 games. The first round of the losers bracket consists of 2 passes and the 2nd pass pits winners vs losers of the 1st pass. http://downloads.asasoftball.com/tournaments/pdf/bracket3948.pdf


What is a Florida only qualifier vs. the ASA State tourney?



We don't have pool play in our State tourneys because of the large number of teams. It's tough enough getting the double elim done in one weekend.

Yes it is just for teams that lose their first 2 games. All teams that lose their first 2 play in this consolation bracket. It runs as its own tournament - single elimination.


Similar to this with the added consolation bracket.

Only Florida teams can enter and teams with berths can play but they move to the consolation bracket. ASA State tourney is simply a Florida qualifier where teams with berths are allowed to play through the tournament.

 

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What is a Florida only qualifier vs. the ASA State tourney?

Only Florida teams can enter and teams with berths can play but they move to the consolation bracket. ASA State tourney is simply a Florida qualifier where teams with berths are allowed to play through the tournament.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - what kind of a qualifier are the Florida-only qualifiers? Does Florida ASA only award some of their 7 berths at the State tourney and the rest are awarded at various Florida-only qualifiers?

 

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ASA/USA National berths are awarded to the qualifier champions - even in the State Tournament. We had three in the fall and the rest in the summer. The current JO is making great headway getting teams and leagues registered ASA. I look for the younger age groups to make the move from NSA/ISA/USSSA/USFA/abcdefg....in the coming years. That will increase the berths awarded to Florida.

 

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According to ASA/USA bylaws it is suppose to be a 2 pool play, then double elimination. Pool play is not used to determine seeding of the DE bracket, therefore you should get your bracket play schedule with your pool play schedule.

I know there is a 3 pool play format that can be use for certain tourneys, which may be for Gold tourneys, but all national qualifiers should be 2/2 according to the ASA bylaws.

 

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According to ASA/USA bylaws it is suppose to be a 2 pool play, then double elimination. Pool play is not used to determine seeding of the DE bracket, therefore you should get your bracket play schedule with your pool play schedule.

I know there is a 3 pool play format that can be use for certain tourneys, which may be for Gold tourneys, but all national qualifiers should be 2/2 according to the ASA bylaws.

Can you post the link to that section of the code? I am told, and examples show as well, that every state is free to use there own format. In my opinion pool play should never be used in a tournament that is considered a qualifier.

 

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@Mark and Shayne:

The ASA Code governs "National Qualifiers" but that term is reserved for the Open ASA/USA qualifiers. Shayne, I just reviewed the Code and Section 511.A makes it pretty clear that seeding from pool play is allowed for all JO National Qualifiers except for JO Gold, in which the pool play cannot be used to determine bracket position.

"Local Associations" such as Ohio ASA and Dayton Metro have authority to use some local rules in tournaments that award berths but that are not "National Qualifiers". But as a practical matter, Ohio States and qualifiers such as Strongsville are using the four team pool approach, with winners playing winners and losers playing losers.

Here is the relevant language from the Code:

01. Pool Play Bracket. The pool play bracket is to be used prior to the seeded double elimination bracket for purpose of drawing onto the seeded bracket in the following championships:
a. Junior Olympic Girls’ Fast Pitch Class A.

 

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I can "matter of factly" say that is not done down here and I think GA as well. No pool play in the Florida or Open qualifiers hosted in the state of Florida. We go straight to brackets - which I think is the best way to do it. Why should a team have to worry about runs for, runs allowed, etc. Winning should be all that matters.

 

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As CGS posted, Article 511.A covers the different types of brackets for championship play. It only mandates which type of bracket is used for championships (i.e. Nationals). Territory qualifiers are required to use the unseeded double elimination bracket per 515.F.03, but that doesn't prevent them from having pool games that don't count. Regions can choose which type of approved bracket to use in their tournaments and national qualifiers. Pool play is optional except for the championships listed under 511.A.01.

Article 511 CHAMPIONSHIP DRAW.

A. Types of Championship Brackets. There are 4 types of approved brackets for ASA Championship Play that are authorized for use in all regional tournaments, national qualifiers, and National Championship Finals. All game times and field assignments should be listed on the official bracket prior to the tournament draw. The different types of brackets are:

01. Pool Play Bracket. The pool play bracket is to be used prior to the seeded double elimination bracket for purpose of drawing onto the seeded bracket in the following championships:
a. Junior Olympic Girls? Fast Pitch Class A.
b. Junior Olympic Girls? Fast Pitch Class B.
c. Junior Olympic Girls? Slow Pitch, if there are less than 85 teams, qualifying pool play shall be conducted; if there are 85 or more teams, there shall be no qualifying Pool play.
d. Men?s Seniors Slow Pitch.
e. Women?s Major Fast Pitch.
f. Junior Olympic Girls? Fast Pitch 18-Under Gold, this championship will use pool play prior to double elimination bracket and play 3 pool play games, but the pool play will be drawn after the double elimination bracket and the results will not be used for the purpose of drawing onto a seeded double elimination bracket.

NOTE: In all championships listed above, teams must participate in pool play to be eligible for the seeded double elimination bracket.

02. Seeded Double Elimination Bracket. The seeded double elimination bracket is to be used in all national championships where pool play games have been used to determine seeding into a double elimination bracket.

03. Double Elimination Bracket. This bracket will be used in all remaining tournaments that do not use the pool play, seeded double elimination or 3 game guarantee brackets. This bracket is also used to draw the Junior Olympic Girls? Gold Fast Pitch prior to pool play and the pool play bracket is determined by the double elimination draw.

04. 3 Game Guarantee Bracket. In lieu of pool play, seeded double elimination or double elimination brackets, the respective Tournament Directors shall utilize an ASA official approved three ( 3 ) game guaranteed format for the following:
a. Boy?s 18-Under Fast Pitch.
...
t. Women?s Masters 35-Over Slow Pitch.