Pitching and Pitchers Discussion OUT! pitch

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At the 12-14-16-18u level, In your OPINION... what is your pitcher's best Strikeout Pitch?
I can begin this by saying that at 12u- it was a fastball-anywhere near the plate-they just swung and missed or watched it go by.
at 14u- it was a change up. Usually thrown to girls who were fouling balls off and getting hungry.
at 16u- hard to throw em by, hard to fool em, hasn't mastered the rise, but that's the pitch I suspect will be needed at this level.
Merry Christmas!:cap:

 

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Curves, drop curves and screws show up around 16.

 

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I know my dd's favorite strike out pitch is the knuckle ball or change up, although a fastball across the top of the mountains is hard to resist and hard to hit.....depends on the batter.

 

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I think DD's curve or change up.

 

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My dd is a catcher, so she doesn't have a favorite pitch to throw, but I think her favorite to call at 13u w/ 2 strikes is a screw ball just out of the zone. Try to get em chasing.

 

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Strikeout pitch and out pitch can be 2 different things. My DD's favorite pitch and out pitch from 14-U through college was her knuckle change. She did strike a fair amount out with it through high school, but her main goal then and in college was to get a ground ball or pop up with it. When she absolutely needed a strikeout, she would usually go with the drop.

 

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My dd's favorite pitch is whatever is working that day. But I've seen her giggle when it's the knuckle change and the batter just made herself look foolish. She also has become fond of a drop curveball at the RH batter's hip then hits the dirt below the catcher's right knee.

 

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At the 12-14-16-18u level, In your OPINION... what is your pitcher's best Strikeout Pitch?
I can begin this by saying that at 12u- it was a fastball-anywhere near the plate-they just swung and missed or watched it go by.
at 14u- it was a change up. Usually thrown to girls who were fouling balls off and getting hungry.
at 16u- hard to throw em by, hard to fool em, hasn't mastered the rise, but that's the pitch I suspect will be needed at this level.
Merry Christmas!:cap:

Many pitchers never "master" the rise, even skilled college pitchers. But what ALL successful pitchers have mastered is a well developed plan for "setting up" batters to get them out - whether that be a strike-out, ground-out or even a pop fly. Strike-outs are the most dramatic, but for the team effort, an out is an out!

This is where "pitching with a plan" is the name of the game. Knowing a batter's weakness(s) helps tremendously, but a savvy pitcher/catcher can glean a ton of information from watching a batter "show her hand" with practice swings in the on-deck circle. Is she using a wristy swing? Arm swing? Back slapper? Dropping hands? This info gives a pitcher a place to start. Surprisingly, EARLY IN THE GAME, many pitchers can start with a slightly low fastball thrown for a strike which gets them ahead. While this often works the first time through the order, especially with 6 through 9, I don't advise it in later innings unless the hitter is quite tentative or weak. Remember - How many batters actually connect with the very first pitch they see? Few. Next game, count the number of kids who swing at the very first pitch they see in a game.

Then, it's time to go to work. Based on weakness displayed by the batter, start a baiting game seeing if they will bite. All that's needed is one more strike (with three pitches to play with), and you're ready for "that pitch". But to get there, it takes careful planning and smart pitching. One method might be to use a "climb the ladder" technique. A few well placed low pitches at the knees can set the table for that irresistible high fastball in the eyes that always gets swung under. If the low pitch gets hit, it's often a grounder cleaned up by the infielders. The "up-pitch" doesn't have to be a real rise (although that helps), but MUST be high enough to avoid the heart of the plate. After a diet of low pitches, an up pitch looks so temptingly like a meatball that many batters just can't resist.

So - a "strike-out" pitch can be ANY pitch that a pitcher can spot with pinpoint accuracy, but it must be one that follows a series of skillfully planned pitches, and one that the batter is NOT expecting. It could be a change-up, a rise or up-pitch, or even a drop curve. IMO, the most successful strike-out pitches must look like strikes to the batter, and they're usually close to or within the umpires strike zone.

 

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I'm copying this one and giving it to my dd. Nice post Sammy.

 

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Strikeout pitch and out pitch can be 2 different things. My DD's favorite pitch and out pitch from 14-U through college was her knuckle change. She did strike a fair amount out with it through high school, but her main goal then and in college was to get a ground ball or pop up with it. When she absolutely needed a strikeout, she would usually go with the drop.

I like the mindset of the quote and without telling all my own secrets I especially like the last sentence. I favor the drop because if they do get any bat on the ball it's probably going to be a ground ball, normally with very little zest to it. The best thing to do is try to study the body language of the individual batter and throw what you think will either freeze them or get them to chase a moving pitch. I like the drop because it almost always starts out its trajectory with a flight plan in the strike zone, making an aggressive batter think swing before recognizing the potential of the pitch.

 

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I think you also need to factor in what the umpire is calling. Some umps will give you an outside pitch but not the inside or a low strike but not the high strike, some will call a breaking pitch and some will only call the glove. Sometimes this changes in the middle of the game so pay attention and talk to your battery between innings.

You have to factor in the umpire. When you are looking for that 3rd strike in a critical situation do not throw a drop (or a curve, etc...) if the ump hasn't been calling that pitch all game. If the ump loves that inside screw then you have to bring it. If the ump is giving you 6" off of the plate on a good breaking curve then that will be your out pitch that game. You have to work with what you have and that includes the umpires.

 

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I'm with Sammy.

It doesn't take the older girls, and coaches, long to figure out if a certain pitcher throws a certain pitch with 2 strikes on the batter. If you have tendencies, then the other team will exploit those tendencies. So, you want to exploit the batter's tendencies.

 

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12U change up and location isn't important
14U drop ball away to righties and on the hands to lefties
16U location with any pitch, otherwise most try the high fastball with 2 strikes and Pitchers start hammering the inside corner
18U location with any pitch, seeing more screw balls to righties and curves to lefties to stay on the hands, otherwise some have rise balls, the thing about 18 is the count doesn't matter, a coach will call any pitch at any time and early in the count they try to find the hitters weakness by moving the ball aroun and the goal is to get grounders and pop ups as K's are tough against the top teams.

 

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12U change up and location isn't important
18U location with any pitch, seeing more screw balls to righties and curves to lefties to stay on the hands, otherwise some have rise balls, the thing about 18 is the count doesn't matter, a coach will call any pitch at any time and early in the count they try to find the hitters weakness by moving the ball aroun and the goal is to get grounders and pop ups as K's are tough against the top teams.

That is what we have seen as well at 18U the past 3 years... The 18U teams do not strike out much they manage to put bat on the ball.
We have been blessed the past few seasons with strong pitching that can hit their spots with decent velocity 58-62mph, good drop or drop curve mixed in with a screw or back door curve to get a ton of ground ball outs or pop ups for the out pitch..
Like someone posted earlier, pretty much anytime in the count ANY pitch can be called..

 

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12U - Drop ball on the outside corner... unless we have that one umpire, then it's fastball, belly-button high, and 6-8 inches outside (called strike three every time!). LOL

 

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Wait till opposing coach yells "watch for the change" then bring high heat.

 

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In my experiences nothing beats a good change up, good arm speed and good location. Problem is not many spend enough time on the change up and it ends up just being a show me pitch. The kid that has command of it and can throw it in any count is nasty especially a kid that throws hard.

 

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In my experiences nothing beats a good change up, good arm speed and good location. Problem is not many spend enough time on the change up and it ends up just being a show me pitch. The kid that has command of it and can throw it in any count is nasty especially a kid that throws hard.

I agree. IMO, the change-up (in some form) should be practiced at every young pitcher's workout routine. The reason many kids can't master the back-hand change is because they don't start early enough, and don't practice it dilligently. It is an amazing thing to watch a hard throwing 12u pitcher with solid command of a backhand change-up. A "slow-arm" change-up may occasionally work at 12u, but a good hitting 16u team usually leaves dents in the scoreboard in center field with that pitch.

I think the backhand is the granddaddy of all change-ups, and is also the most deceiving. Sure, it's harder to master, but when thrown properly, a pitcher can actually throw it with MORE intensity and arm speed than her fastball, but the grip and release typically bleeds off more than 20% of the velocity. Believe me when I say that a great change-up drives Mike Larabee nuts!

 

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My dd love to set up a batter. When she would see a batter the 2nd time, especially that would swing hard at anything that would come in hard she would set them up with one or two knuckleballs to start off with and then the 3rd pitch could be almost anything because the batter is confused and usually po'd. When younger dd would catch older one she would even call a 3rd change up. Coach kept telling them that was cruel. LOL

 

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I agree with Sammy that the backhand is the grandaddy; however, DD's pitching coach has her working on a "different" change-up that, when she hits it, it's been described as "sick". The grandaddy is more traditional and maybe even more effective (due to the "deception" reasons Sammy stated) but this new one is a lot of fun to watch. Only time will tell if it is as effective for DD. Winter indoor league though indicated it has a lot of promise for an OUT! Pitch.