Tom, I really like some of the points you made above. The level of play and Team is a factor on the speed and overall quality of pitching. So you really cant just say all 13 years average this or all 14 year old pitchers average that. I recently watched a good video about how to increase speed. The 3 points were : Snap , Arm Speed and Leg drive. It went on about how important Leg and core strength is. Every pitcher works on SNAP and Arm Speed . However , I would bet the Elite pitchers Hitting 58,59 and dare I say 60 spend just as much time in the weight room as they do pitching. The difference in a good pitcher and a Elite pitcher is the off season work. A good strength and conditioning program 2-3 times a week . will go along way.
Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitchers "Stuff"
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daboss
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Small in stature with a big heart and great attitude. If this is your daughter, any coach should be happy to have her pitch for them! I know I would. Maybe she's max'd out and maybe not. Time will tell. One thing is for sure, a kid with a good attitude is always going to be trying and will give it her all every pitch.
What pitches she can work on that can be effective is the curve, drop, and screw. The spin pitches don't care what size you are. If she can spin them and hone a command of them the pitch will prove itself valuable in her arsenal. Deceptive pitches like the change up can of course be a weapon. Shoot for about 35% speed difference and as she masters it, try working on locating it on the corners. Even a "too slow" change up can have its moments if well placed. A good instructor will want to teach all the pitches to her regardless if she can master them. The knowledge alone can be positive. Few girls master all the pitches. Few girls accurately throw all of them well every game. they warm up and pick the top 3-4 that are working that day and let those pitches define her in that game. The next day may be different. Learn them all, then decide what works.
Odds are she'll never have the hand size for it but there is one pitch that is a lost art------------the knuckle ball. In my short time coaching I have only seen one girl ever throw it with enough control and frequency that it was effective. Some instructors will teach a palm ball to be used as a change up but few girls can throw it with accuracy. Normally it takes a large hand and long fingers to attempt a softball to knuckle. Here's a pitch that will effectively make the pass from circle to home in the low 40's in speed and leave a girl shaking her head after seeing one.
Look gang, we've all seen that average girl win big games just as we have seen the best get rocked at times. It's not the normal but does happen. The original post is from a content parent that has been forthright in asking the questions presented to us. As usual, a dominating debate over speed erupts. Let's be encouraging to these people that will probably be an asset to a program somewhere if nothing else because she has heart. 5 foot tall and bullet proof can have a wonderful career in this game. they simply need to find their spot in the big picture. Good luck.
What pitches she can work on that can be effective is the curve, drop, and screw. The spin pitches don't care what size you are. If she can spin them and hone a command of them the pitch will prove itself valuable in her arsenal. Deceptive pitches like the change up can of course be a weapon. Shoot for about 35% speed difference and as she masters it, try working on locating it on the corners. Even a "too slow" change up can have its moments if well placed. A good instructor will want to teach all the pitches to her regardless if she can master them. The knowledge alone can be positive. Few girls master all the pitches. Few girls accurately throw all of them well every game. they warm up and pick the top 3-4 that are working that day and let those pitches define her in that game. The next day may be different. Learn them all, then decide what works.
Odds are she'll never have the hand size for it but there is one pitch that is a lost art------------the knuckle ball. In my short time coaching I have only seen one girl ever throw it with enough control and frequency that it was effective. Some instructors will teach a palm ball to be used as a change up but few girls can throw it with accuracy. Normally it takes a large hand and long fingers to attempt a softball to knuckle. Here's a pitch that will effectively make the pass from circle to home in the low 40's in speed and leave a girl shaking her head after seeing one.
Look gang, we've all seen that average girl win big games just as we have seen the best get rocked at times. It's not the normal but does happen. The original post is from a content parent that has been forthright in asking the questions presented to us. As usual, a dominating debate over speed erupts. Let's be encouraging to these people that will probably be an asset to a program somewhere if nothing else because she has heart. 5 foot tall and bullet proof can have a wonderful career in this game. they simply need to find their spot in the big picture. Good luck.
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cobb_of_fury
Member
My DD has had to work hard at pitching it's didn't come easy for her but she loves it.
She was blessed with big hands and she figured out a bazaar knuckle change. She somehow holds it with her pinky, index and thumb. She can throw it on the corners for a strike and it is not only a very good change up but dances too -
That is not meant as a brag - it's just that she has worked hard and innovated when necessary. She's 15 and just now getting her speed past mid 50's so that's still a work in progress.
That why if your daughter is willing to work she will be fine.
Well Said! My daughter is an 11U pitcher and she throws hard for her age. In line with the elite girls a year ahead of her but it is hard work to get anything in pithing and she has a drive that I never had from TBall to College. She puts in 4 days a week to pitching and lessons and that is where success comes from. Core training, strength and agility, and work on mechanics weekly is needed all year around when many other positions are taking time off . So, If your daughter or any player loves to pitch and is willing to work hard at it then give them all the tools you can provide to succeed. There is no sure fire road to success, but a love and drive to work extremely hard will typically spell success.
Good luck and keep working hard!
FastBat
Well-Known Member
I would suggest after a FB and change, then something that moves vertical; like a drop. After that, something that moves horizontal; like curve or screw. They should be true spins, not two different spins that are mixed like a curve/drop, until she can throw a drop and a curve separately.
coachjwb
Well-Known Member
Not bragging (well maybe a little), but my DD broke her D3 school's career wins record with 3 and only 3 pitches ... a very average fastball in terms of speed but which she could place pretty well, a knuckle change she was willing to throw on any count (daboss, you would have had to add her to your short list!), and a whole lot of drop balls (and a good infield defense!).
cobb_of_fury
Member
This is the key to success for girls who can not "blow the ball by 'em"
As a coach I enjoyed seeing a 3 Pitch inning more than striking out the side - for a lot of reasons.
But Speed is easier to coach...
(if you want we can start the annual SPEED -V- LOCATION debate now)
FastBat
Well-Known Member
I love a knuckle change! I think I've only seen one, very recently someone showed me, but it looked like it floated and wobbled in the air, no spin. I don't think I could ever get used to seeing it, kind of distracting, the ball shouldn't look like that.
I also love a good drop! That pitch produces easy grounders and throws off the batters, they just can't get all the bat on it; especially because so many batters like to get under the ball. But, I'm also a fan of keeping the ball low.
coachjwb
Well-Known Member
100% agree about keeping the ball low, especially if a pitcher doesn't have overpowering speed. While you have to keep the opposition guessing some, when I coached my daughter in HS and travel ball, we called for about 80% low locations, and I know her college catchers called a low game for her as well.
FastBat
Well-Known Member
Well, I don't actually coach my dd or call her pitches, so I'm unsure what she throws half the time. But, I think all the coaches that call have done a nice job. Plus, it gives her an opportunity to have a cooperative relationship with another adult and stay close with the catcher. I just didn't want to take credit for calling her pitches!
Knuckle ball caught my eye. My DD is 2nd year 12u and a few months ago got tired of not being able to consistently throw her flip change for strikes so asked the pitching coach to learn a new change-up. The coach suggested a horse-shoe change and taught her how to throw it. While I was catching it I noticed that once in a while the pitch would come in with practically no spin and dart just like a knuckle ball. Her pitching coach had never seen that happen with that pitch before. TOTAL LUCK. But she was able to help my DD learn how to control it to make it happen and now it is my favorite pitch in the whole world. She can make it happen nearly every time now and she can control it quite well -- 80-90% strikes or within about 3 inches of the knees (depending on which direction it darts). Right about 40 mph. People watch it and marvel. Being she's only had it a few months and it's the off-season we haven't had much exposure with it against real batters... one indoor tournament with her travel team and the first game her coach only called a few change-ups. The second game was against a top-notch team and our coach must have saw what was happening because my DD said he started calling nearly all change-ups. It seemed to work very well. Lots of slow ground balls and only one hit. But she only pitched the last couple innings of the game. Her school team has had a few games now and those girls haven't touched it, but the competition is really green. I can't wait to see what she can do with it when the travel season starts. Like I said, it was just pure luck that she just happened to somehow do that naturally.
Has anyone seen that with that pitch before? Googling, I can't find anything.
IMHO - when you move up in ages, the best hitters will instantly see the spin difference and adjust to at least foul it off. Now if she can do the same spin all the time, when her velocity increases, hitting it might be a true adventure.
I was reviewing some of the USSSA elite tryout and data for pitchers. I came across this one for the 13 year old age group : 61,62,61 ...Fast ball : This was from the Atlanta area tryout : http://www.usaeliteselect.com/usaes/TournamentMain/#/?eventID=275801&gdSport=32&ScoutingReport=0
PA and Ohio tryouts are in May
http://www.usaeliteselect.com/usaes/SpecialProgram/#/?gdSport=32&program=futures
PA and Ohio tryouts are in May
http://www.usaeliteselect.com/usaes/SpecialProgram/#/?gdSport=32&program=futures
