Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching Time Alittle or Alot?

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Need some advice. In 12U as a pitcher, would you rather be the third/fourth pitcher on a very good highly competitive team or the first pitcher on a feeder team? Reason I ask is what do you all think is important at this age to actually play a lot against ok competition or alittle against great competition? Thoughts please. Thanks!

 

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At 12u, pitching time!!! You are not showcasing to anyone and win/loss record does not matter, development does. Circle time should be the most important factor for a 10u-12u pitcher.

 

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At 12u, pitching time!!! You are not showcasing to anyone and win/loss record does not matter, development does. Circle time should be the most important factor for a 10u-12u pitcher.

Agree

 

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At 12u, pitching time!!! You are not showcasing to anyone and win/loss record does not matter, development does. Circle time should be the most important factor for a 10u-12u pitcher.

To add to Julie's post... Being on a lesser team and getting ton of circle time is going to build mental toughness OR it will break her. Mental toughness isn't something that is learned it's earned.

 

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o.k. here is my two cents: when my oldest used to pitch, she played on a team that had average defense at best....alot of infield popups were not caught, weak ground outs to ss & 2nd, and weak fly outs to RF and plays were not made...there were many a game where we gave them 5-6 outs an inning. It was frustrating to watch and i always worried if she would say screw it and stop pitching but she didn't....at 14u she made the jump to a strong team and all of that circle time and dealing with the errors gave her better mound composure. She doesn't pitch anymore (due to an injury that kept her out of the game for a year) but i don't regret my decision keeping her on a team that allowed her to get mound time.

 

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I think you also have to factor in your daughter's ability to play other positions. What will she be doing when she is not pitching? If all she wants to be is a pitcher then she needs to pitch ( I think everybody should strive to be a complete player ,but that is another debate). If she is going to be playing all the time and pitching 6-8 innings per weekend then I would definitely go with the higher level team. If she is primarily going to be sitting the bench when not pitching for the higher team then I would go the other way. I would lean towards the higher team is possible for 2 reasons.
1. It might motivate her to work harder to earn more pitching time. ( My daughter joined a higher level team 4 years ago at 14U and was told up front in the fall that she would not pitch just be a position player, this provided incredible incentive over the winter and by the end of the following summer she was a regular in the rotation)
2. It can be difficult to get onto the higher level teams if you wait until 14s and 16s when all of a sudden everybody wants to make that jump. If you are already established it not only helps you stay on the team, but if you need to change teams it certainly helps the resume when trying out elsewhere.

 

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DD has been in both situations. Top pitcher 12U rec and moved to travel as second year 12U where she was 3rd in line for pitching time but learned outfield and strong game basics-lessons she has retained through the years. 14U was lots of time in the circle and more outfield time. 16U has been shared time in the circle and only 1 "win" in the book for her because of the same situation alreay shared: "alot of infield popups were not caught, weak ground outs to ss & 2nd, and weak fly outs to RF and plays were not made...there were many a game where we gave them 5-6 outs an inning." She is probably the hardest working pitcher on the team because of this. DD has developed thick skin, mature mental coping skills, and a solid 'swagger' attitude along with the understanding that hits happen but the entire team on the field is responsible for defensive plays. However, she is tired of the errrors and really wants a solid team that wants wins as badly as she does.

 

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If you decide to move her to a higher level team to motivate her to practice pitching regularly and get stronger, make sure that the coach of that team is willing to at least put her in the circle to see how she has developed. If he isn't, don't go to that team. At 11U my dd worked her butt off, on her own time, to become as good or better than what her coach was using at the time. He never gave her a chance to show that she was much stronger. She obviously tried out for other 12U teams the next season and became a starting pitching from the get go. Ask questions and be smart about the choice you make.

 

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My advice would be to get the circle time. If she starts out as 3rd on most travel teams her innings will be limited. If she is in the 4th slot then she will see very little time (if everyone stays healthy). The only way that I would modify this is if the Coaching is superior.. not just wins/loses but actual pitching knowledge... since this is very doubtful I'd go for more innings at this age group.

I suspect that any coach that is hiring a 3rd/4th slot pitcher has already made assurances to the 1st and 2nd slot girls that will not renogoiated during the seaosn. Quite frankly, if I had it to do again...I would not sign my dd up for any team in the 4th slot and maybe not in the 3rd slot. She will not improve by watching others pitch.

 

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I think you also have to factor in your daughter's ability to play other positions. What will she be doing when she is not pitching? If all she wants to be is a pitcher then she needs to pitch ( I think everybody should strive to be a complete player ,but that is another debate). If she is going to be playing all the time and pitching 6-8 innings per weekend then I would definitely go with the higher level team. If she is primarily going to be sitting the bench when not pitching for the higher team then I would go the other way. I would lean towards the higher team is possible for 2 reasons.
1. It might motivate her to work harder to earn more pitching time. ( My daughter joined a higher level team 4 years ago at 14U and was told up front in the fall that she would not pitch just be a position player, this provided incredible incentive over the winter and by the end of the following summer she was a regular in the rotation)
2. It can be difficult to get onto the higher level teams if you wait until 14s and 16s when all of a sudden everybody wants to make that jump. If you are already established it not only helps you stay on the team, but if you need to change teams it certainly helps the resume when trying out elsewhere.

Good comments.

 

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Make sure the team has a good coach, or she will learn little about the game regardless of how much pitching time she's getting. Ask yourself, is this coach teaching proper bunt coverage, using defensive plays, teaching proper baserunning techniques, etc? You don't want her to be known as that kid that can throw heat, but can't cover home on a wild pitch, or throw someone out at first, etc.
I like the posts about developing a thick skin. It is hard to develop that if you are used to having a 4 run lead to start the game or a defense that never makes errors.

 

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Pitching time. It may get frusterating loosing a lot, but she will gain a lot of experience to go on to greater things.

What is she going to learn about pitching if she never pitches? She can count her trophies, but not her experience in the circle. Just lessons and backyard pitching only gets you so far.

 

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Thank you for this post! My DD is in the same situation this year. I was going to pose the same question. DD played 10U this season. Not much pitching time. Just started pitching a few months ago. We have a good opportunity to play 9U with her being #1 or #2. My concern is will it hurt her playing with younger girls to get more pitching time or do we find another 10U team where she may not be even #2. The comments so far have been very helpful.

 

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Need some advice. In 12U as a pitcher, would you rather be the third/fourth pitcher on a very good highly competitive team or the first pitcher on a feeder team? Reason I ask is what do you all think is important at this age to actually play a lot against ok competition or alittle against great competition? Thoughts please. Thanks!

You really need to balance several factors:

1. Getting enough pitching time in games that satisfies your needs (see msutt1's post).


2. Having enough pitching on the team so that your DD isn't overworked and has competition for the position.


3. Playing against an appropriate level of competition. If the competition is too weak, your DD won't be pushed to develop.

 

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I have to agree with the circle time. I have been told by some this year that a girl should have about 40% circle time in order to really improve but don't know if this would be possible as #3 or #4.,but obviously the more the better. I am looking for a team myself that will accept my dd as a #3 and hopefully get some good time in pool play or possibly a team that plays in a summer league as well as tourney. One thing to note is that a lot of the really good teams do not play in these leagues because it is often less competitive and the ones that do, play up.

 

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One addition consideration is the amount of games a team plays in a season. Some teams may play 80 - 90 games while others might only play 50 on average. That can be a big difference in the opportunities your dd may have to pitch.

 

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I would suggest to any pitcher's family that at 10u and 12u to focus on picking a team where you can get a LOT of pitching time - possibly a lower level team with only one other pitcher. A hard-working pitcher needs game reps to get experience, and perfect what they have worked so hard for in practice and lessons. Certainly winning is important, but winning only comes after the skills are honed. That circle time will help tremendously when you are young.

Then, at 14u shift your focus more towards teams that are attending showcases - if you have worked hard, by that time you should not short-sell yourself and doubt your ability. If you have college ambitions, you MUST be pitching to the best batters in your age group. Face it - a DI caliber pitcher at 14u is going to strike out most varsity high school kids her freshman year. That is NOT a big accomplishment. However, facing the top 14u hitters at top showcase tournaments and getting your team to the championship game on Sunday - now THAT'S an accomplishment!

There is something to be said for a pitcher learning to deal with the disappointment of losing. This will eventually get under the skin of A TRUE COMPETITOR, and start building a hunger for a more competitive team environment. This is why the best pitchers eventually migrate to the best teams. Actually, this phenomenon happens with ANY player - from shortstop to center field. So if your daughter is a true gamer, she won't be crying after losses - she'll be MAD! If your daughter is crying when things get rough, she should seriously consider NOT being a pitcher. The circle is not the place for timid kids who easily get their feelings hurt. The pitcher is carrying the whole team, so she better have a poker face and thick skin.

Regardless of what some may think, a competitive team starts with pitching. If you don't have it in the circle, it's going to be a long season. College coaches know this, and that's why pitchers are the first to be recruited. To get on the recruiting trail takes a TON of practice and a TON of innings in games. When just starting out, those games don't have to be all that competitive - preferable if they are not. But as skill increases, so should the "testing". You won't know how good you are if all you face are weak batters! But start small, and build on your skills. When you DO get to the recruiting age, you want to show DI college coaches that you are very capable of handling the best hitters - the ones you will be facing in college.

 

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My DD went through from 10u-18u being the #3, she also played SS/2ND and was very strong defensively. Looking objectively at her skill set with her desire to play college softball I kept her on competitive teams knowing for her to play college ball it would be her slapping and speed that got her there. So in 8th grade we stopped working on her pitching but she still would get #3 pitcher innings at the start of the year but by the end she would be 1st or 2nd in innings. Then during high school ball she was the #2 and SS for a few years or 2ND. Then it was off to college, her frosh year she was mostly a DP and some 2nd, her soph year got interesting she DP'd played 2nd and due to injuries pitched. This a D2 school in the GLIAC, she hasn't worked with a pitching coach since the 8th grade but got a few innings in the circle in college, I am hoping that's over with though lol.

So I'd say play for the highest level team your DD will actually play for, let her compete for innings. There is nothing wrong with making your DD compete for playing time. As a parent just make sure you understand if she is playing and starting for a lesser team, your schedule might be easier, your defense might be weaker and your offense might be weaker. Your weaker team might play quite a few less games on Sunday and 50% of the innings on that team might not be that much more then 20% for a stronger team.

Lastly, go with your gut. It seldom let's you down.