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My vote is facemasks for all pitchers!!! Leave the rest alone!
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Leave it up to the individual. If you look at the amount of games and innings played vs injuries I think you might find it safer than driving a car. To answer the argument that one injury is to many: I coached lil' league bb in South Carolina many moons ago (15yrs ago). This was a 14u team that was not allowed to lead off, steal, slide and they even wore the masks on their batting helmets. I was like what the *%&#, I had never seen the safety mask on a batting helmet. To make this long winded story shorter, these were all teenagers preparing for HS ball and a bunch of parents and their lawyers felt that one injury was too much. If you know you have a weaker player in the hot zone, as a coach I would suggest the mask.
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In my opinion 
I think we are trying to advance these young ladies into college level players? I know this topic is about safety, and the way these girls learn is through trial and error ( Practice). I am not saying that they need to get hurt playing but they need to decide whats best for them. I watch alot of college softball and not usally do I see girls with game faces. This only tells me that they can field the ball very well. Maybe come away from a game with a little cut on the ( LEGS) from sliding I say teach the girls how to play ( DEFENCE) and we wont have to worry about having these conversations.
Now with that said, I do understand that there will be freak accidents and parents have to do what they feel is necessary for the well being of their child.. ( PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE). Well I am sure you all will let me know what you think
OHH, my vote was to leave it alone
I think we are trying to advance these young ladies into college level players? I know this topic is about safety, and the way these girls learn is through trial and error ( Practice). I am not saying that they need to get hurt playing but they need to decide whats best for them. I watch alot of college softball and not usally do I see girls with game faces. This only tells me that they can field the ball very well. Maybe come away from a game with a little cut on the ( LEGS) from sliding I say teach the girls how to play ( DEFENCE) and we wont have to worry about having these conversations. Now with that said, I do understand that there will be freak accidents and parents have to do what they feel is necessary for the well being of their child.. ( PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE). Well I am sure you all will let me know what you think
OHH, my vote was to leave it alone
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Chicoflip, come on, thats not real helpful. ?" If you can't take the ?responsibility... stay out of the diamond". ? Did you get that 12 year old Cindy? ?
They're kids, they're not responsible. ?Their not supposed to be. ?We are as adults and further more as their parents. ?This is and always has been a game designed and run by adults, for kids primarily.
How about a picture of a severely injured, or worse, pitcher instead of a dead horse? ?
Well, it did get further on the OFC than it would have on the Western PA site before it got silly.
Seriously, can someone answer why its 43 feet at the upper levels? I really am curious why its at that distance at those levels but not at the lower levels.
They're kids, they're not responsible. ?Their not supposed to be. ?We are as adults and further more as their parents. ?This is and always has been a game designed and run by adults, for kids primarily.
How about a picture of a severely injured, or worse, pitcher instead of a dead horse? ?
Well, it did get further on the OFC than it would have on the Western PA site before it got silly.
Seriously, can someone answer why its 43 feet at the upper levels? I really am curious why its at that distance at those levels but not at the lower levels.
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Pitcher training can counteract, and even control to some extent, how and where the ball is hit. You see it all the time in college softball, college baseball, and especially MLB. At ages 14u and below, keeping the ball LOW and changing speeds can make a pitcher nearly unhittable. Teaching pitchers and catchers to work a count and "pitch with a plan" goes a long way. A pitcher throwing the equivalent of BP in a game is unsafe and endangering herself. I saw MANY pitchers in summer doing exactly that!
Check college hitting stats. The big time hitters from 16u and 18u only get bigger and stronger in college after hitting the weights. And the bats get a LOT faster. A sub-60 mph pitcher that lacks great movement, change of speed and pinpoint accuracy is destined to get shelled in college. The extra 3' pitching distance for college gets equalized by the stronger hitters, but is balanced by better pitching - essentially a wash from 40'.
I agree that the sanctioning bodies hold the key. They can dictate the physical properties of the bats and balls. Finding a balance between technology and acceptable risk factors seems to be the way the bat manufacturers are headed.
Check college hitting stats. The big time hitters from 16u and 18u only get bigger and stronger in college after hitting the weights. And the bats get a LOT faster. A sub-60 mph pitcher that lacks great movement, change of speed and pinpoint accuracy is destined to get shelled in college. The extra 3' pitching distance for college gets equalized by the stronger hitters, but is balanced by better pitching - essentially a wash from 40'.
I agree that the sanctioning bodies hold the key. They can dictate the physical properties of the bats and balls. Finding a balance between technology and acceptable risk factors seems to be the way the bat manufacturers are headed.
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Vipers - For a senior member your comments do not seem to be real intelligent. We are talking 9-14 year old children before the are even in highschool let alone college. To say teach them DENFENSE (Someone needs to teach you to spell, it is a s not a c in defense. Practice, practice, practice, your spelling.) is crazy because they are kids, they make mistakes, just like your spelling mistake. Luckily for you, you won't sustain any injuries from yours. Have we all forgot the family from Michigan that lost their little girl from just this that we are dicussing. I am sure they wouldn't take your practice, practice, practice comment to kindly. I'll say it again as I did the ?last time this issue was discussed on this forum, seatbelts weren't rquired at one time, but think of all the lives they have saved. Even if your are a good driver you should still wear one.
My dd use to pitch and when she did she wore a mask. Now she catches and ALL catchers wear masks, not because they haven't practiced enough, it's just the smart thing to do.(and required)
The girls do think they look a little silly, I agree also, they do. But it is important to guide them to do what's right and to protect them because at this age they think they are invincible.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Mrs Ringer
My dd use to pitch and when she did she wore a mask. Now she catches and ALL catchers wear masks, not because they haven't practiced enough, it's just the smart thing to do.(and required)
The girls do think they look a little silly, I agree also, they do. But it is important to guide them to do what's right and to protect them because at this age they think they are invincible.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Mrs Ringer
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It is impossible to practice for a freak accident. That is why they call it a freak accident. That would be like saying you should learn how to dodge a bullet because someone might take a shot at you some day.
First of all there is a big difference between a woman in college and a pre-teen or teen. The college level players do not wear the mask for a number of reasons not the least of which is fashion related. On the other hand you have many young pitchers who are very well served wearing the mask, and i can tell you that I have seen first hand what can happen when a player is hit in the face both with and without one on. I never had a daughter who pitched but if I did I am sure that when she was younger and less expereinced she would have wore a mask. There is more to life then softball. I see nothing wrong with erroring on the side of safety while the player is young. As she matures in the sport and reaches an age where she can make a fair determination about weather or not to wear the mask then that would be up to her. Unfortunately it is coaches and parents with that type of attitude who keep pitchers from wearing the mask. Its all well and good until the child is having face reconstruction or worse yet fitted for a casket.
As far as practice, practice, practice...well exactly how do you accelerate that? Drill balls at the pitcher continuously. I can see where parents would really like that brilliant strategy.
The fact is these are skills that are learned over time and game experence. Some refer to it as learning the speed of the game. In my humble opinion you should not gamble with a childs health and welfare in an attempt to speed this process just because college level players are not doing it.
First of all there is a big difference between a woman in college and a pre-teen or teen. The college level players do not wear the mask for a number of reasons not the least of which is fashion related. On the other hand you have many young pitchers who are very well served wearing the mask, and i can tell you that I have seen first hand what can happen when a player is hit in the face both with and without one on. I never had a daughter who pitched but if I did I am sure that when she was younger and less expereinced she would have wore a mask. There is more to life then softball. I see nothing wrong with erroring on the side of safety while the player is young. As she matures in the sport and reaches an age where she can make a fair determination about weather or not to wear the mask then that would be up to her. Unfortunately it is coaches and parents with that type of attitude who keep pitchers from wearing the mask. Its all well and good until the child is having face reconstruction or worse yet fitted for a casket.
As far as practice, practice, practice...well exactly how do you accelerate that? Drill balls at the pitcher continuously. I can see where parents would really like that brilliant strategy.
The fact is these are skills that are learned over time and game experence. Some refer to it as learning the speed of the game. In my humble opinion you should not gamble with a childs health and welfare in an attempt to speed this process just because college level players are not doing it.
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Krm nowhere in my semi flippant response did I say that it was up to the 12u girl to be the one who decides what equipment she has to wear. If a parent cant lay down the rules for their own child why make someone else do it? :-?
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I agree that the parents or even a coach who feels he wants to enforce the mask rule rather than the sanctioning body. But I don't understand the comparsion between college and the younger levels. 14U and younger girls are in now way anything like a college girl (except size in some girls). These girls are going through all kinds of changes and adjusting to lots of hormones and physical changes that no matter how much practice they get aren't in complete control of yet. It takes time to adjust and it can cause many changes in them including their softball performance. But if it is ok for college girls to go without helmet mask and gamefaces then all girls should be able to go without them. Well that is as stupid as saying that since college girls can sit back and have an "adult" beverage or two after a win that all the younger girls should be able to....I mean they should be able to perform and react as well.Another thing that is different with college girls is that they are all closer to being the same size and strength (not that they are the same but closer than at younger ages). I have a cousin who's daughter is going to be 12 in May and she played 10U last year and is 5'7" and 140+lbs. Would you like her swinging a Rocket Tech or Synergy or etc. at your 10U daughter who is playing 3rd base and is a whole 4'8" and 65 lbs without a mask on? Not me...and the reality is that there are more and more girls of larger size but not all the girls.
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My apologies then chicoflip. When you said "stay out of the diamond" I assumed you meant the players since the parents aren't in the diamond. Even if they're coaching, they won't be in the diamond when their team is on the field, which is the area of play this topic is covering. My bad though. I apologize for misreading your comment.
I agree, for the most part, Sammy with the wash from 40 to 43 logic you give. But is not the same thing true about boys in baseball? The same would apply, wouldn't it. A 15u boy doesn't throw as hard as an 18/19 year old minor leaguer. And the 15u boy at bat doesn't have as much bat speed as an 18/19 year old minor leaguer. So the result is less speed from the pitch meets less speed from the bat resulting in less speed the ball comes off the bat. But then why do the boys at that age pitch from the same 60'6''? I guess thats the biggest mystery to me here. Why not move the mound back to 43? Its what is is going to be at the 18u and above level. So many people are against moving it back to what its intended to be in the first place. I guess I just need to accept that I'll never get it.
I am suprised at the numbers that suggest no change at all. I would've thought less people would think
there should be no change at all, which means nothing should be done to try to decrease the occurances of our 14 and 15 year old girls getting smacked in the head with a ball? But everyone has their opinion and is surely entitled to it. I'd hate to have to tell either of those 2 girls that got hit recently in PA that people decided to try nothing to make it less likely to happen. Thats not intended to be as judgemental as it may sound.
I agree, for the most part, Sammy with the wash from 40 to 43 logic you give. But is not the same thing true about boys in baseball? The same would apply, wouldn't it. A 15u boy doesn't throw as hard as an 18/19 year old minor leaguer. And the 15u boy at bat doesn't have as much bat speed as an 18/19 year old minor leaguer. So the result is less speed from the pitch meets less speed from the bat resulting in less speed the ball comes off the bat. But then why do the boys at that age pitch from the same 60'6''? I guess thats the biggest mystery to me here. Why not move the mound back to 43? Its what is is going to be at the 18u and above level. So many people are against moving it back to what its intended to be in the first place. I guess I just need to accept that I'll never get it.
I am suprised at the numbers that suggest no change at all. I would've thought less people would think
there should be no change at all, which means nothing should be done to try to decrease the occurances of our 14 and 15 year old girls getting smacked in the head with a ball? But everyone has their opinion and is surely entitled to it. I'd hate to have to tell either of those 2 girls that got hit recently in PA that people decided to try nothing to make it less likely to happen. Thats not intended to be as judgemental as it may sound.
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Ringer!
?I will say that no one has forgot about the family in mich. We all looked at our daughters in a different light after that news. I also would like to correct your spelling as well ( there is no N) in Defense ( before the F) and also the word discussing is spelled with an ( S) before the (C). So now that we have got all the spelling errors out. Like I stated before its an opinion! So before we go and throw stones, lets make sure our house is made out of wood instead of glass!!!
?I will say that no one has forgot about the family in mich. We all looked at our daughters in a different light after that news. I also would like to correct your spelling as well ( there is no N) in Defense ( before the F) and also the word discussing is spelled with an ( S) before the (C). So now that we have got all the spelling errors out. Like I stated before its an opinion! So before we go and throw stones, lets make sure our house is made out of wood instead of glass!!!
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TheRinger said:
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I voted for leave as is.. With saying this my DD pitches and plays third She is 16 and we as parents let her make the decision on wearing a pertective mask :-/ :-/. I am 50/50 on this because I just forked out $6000 for her teeth to look "pretty" and $200 on a new pair of glasses. The reason is she is a young adult and knows what she is comfortable with, As a parent and coach I encourage players to be as safe as can be, But I believe let the parents and players decide together as a family not to make any changes or make anything mandated..As for the seatbelt referance we ALL know that seatbelts save lives, but the problem is "most" people only starting wearing them when they were going to get a fine if they did not have them on, not because they saved lives...
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The spelling mistake is noted. Again it was a Mistake. I didn't get hurt, not even by the fact you directed you message to my husband not me. Not sure what the glass house comment means. I just know that my childrens safety comes first and at the ages we are talking about (really any age) your reaction time to catch a ball coming off the bat may not be there. We had a girl on our team last year take one to the face. It dropped her to the ground. Luckily she was wearing her game face or she wouldn't of walked off the field on her own.
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?MRS RINGER
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?MRS RINGER
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I'm actually surprised so many people have said to require the Game Face. I know this isn't a scientific poll, but I'm assuming we're going to see a proportional number of girls at pitcher and the corners wearing them this year. There would be no point in being in favor of requiring them for other people, but not making one's own daughter wear one.
I think those of us who say leave it as is understand there are injuries, and in the very rare case even very serious injuries, but we believe that preventing the rare serious injury is not worth the price of making girls wear the mask when they don't want to do so and their parents don't feel the need to require them to wear one.
If we had a girl getting hit in the face every other game, then I can see where it would be mandatory. But it's such a rare occurrence that it's a risk many families are willing to run in return for the comfort of not wearing a mask.
I think those of us who say leave it as is understand there are injuries, and in the very rare case even very serious injuries, but we believe that preventing the rare serious injury is not worth the price of making girls wear the mask when they don't want to do so and their parents don't feel the need to require them to wear one.
If we had a girl getting hit in the face every other game, then I can see where it would be mandatory. But it's such a rare occurrence that it's a risk many families are willing to run in return for the comfort of not wearing a mask.
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I agree that the game should be left the way it is. It should be left up to the parents to decide what, if any, extra protection their DD's should wear, not the sanctioning bodies. At all the 18u tournaments we played in last summer(and we played over 70 games) I saw 2 injuries to the face, and neither were pitchers. One was a 1st baseman and the other the centerfielder where the ball tipped off her glove and hit her in the face. ?I have seen more pitchers take shots to their knees/legs. Anyhow, for those that want to wear them ,great. For the rest of us, leave it our option.
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SBFAMILY said:
If I had to chose the lesser of two evils I would take protective gear over modifying bats and balls in a heartbeat. The reason being that adding protective gear does not change the game or the way it is played. Dumbing down the bats and balls does.
For those who think that moving the pitcher back three feet will protect them here are the facts:
A ball traveling at 100mph will cover 40 feet in 0.272727273 seconds. To travel 43 feet, 0.293181818 seconds. A gain of 2 1/100ths of a second.
To get an appreciation of how quick that is try out this online reaction time test:
http://getyourwebsitehere.com/jswb/rttest01.html
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I wish I had saved the studies that I read in NJ on why they looked at moving the bases back to 65 or the rubber to 43 and it came down to the bat or the balls. They proved that the only way you effect safety was to change bats or balls. Sorry , but they did prove the theory that a human cannot react to the speed a ball is moving at of the bat in an extra 3 feet. Hitter has a prior post on the human reaction time to a 58 MPH fastball on a hiting post that proves the same thing. So to prove this point. How many of you are watching what is happening to mens slow pitch? you now pay 5 bills for a bat and look at e bay on all the bat rolling sites. Now you have a player that is built like a NFL linebacker hitting a slow pitch softball with a loaded bat. Where does the third baseman play. Back in the well. So why did a third baseman get a broken leg at a slow pitch softball game? Because it was stated he had no chance to move his glove to block the ball at the speed it now is coming off the bat. So in fastpitch you have a girl playing at 30 or 35 feet, now we move the rubber back to 43 to give the offense more time to pound it down the third base line! Do we think she has more time to react? My dd is a pitcher, and its not the pitchers getting hurt as much as third. The study out east proved this in detail. You have three choices.
1. No change but wear safety equipment.
2. Change the bats, we see an attempt now to do this.
3. Change the ball, that was the easy way out to avoid more law suits.
1. No change but wear safety equipment.
2. Change the bats, we see an attempt now to do this.
3. Change the ball, that was the easy way out to avoid more law suits.
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Thanks Cshilt: I new this was posted somewhere and I thought hitter posted it, but couldn't find it.
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SBFAMILY said:
The formula is pretty simple: Feet / Speed / 1.46666666666666 = Elapsed Time
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