Playing for Money or Travel Expense Money - Right, Wrong, Concerns, Rules don't touch it!

[TheSoftballZone]

TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1"

$7500.00 in Travel Expense "TE Funds" Money
Travel Expense payout structure is based on 15 Teams in each age group

When - May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Entry Fee $450


Age Groups - 14u, 12u and 10 under


Location - Riverside Park Zanesville, Ohio


Playing under ASA rules thru out the tournament
​

Registration links will be available on the forum by October 26th.
We will take a maximum of 54 Teams

4 Game Guaranteed - weather permitting
2 games in Pool Play for seeding into Double elimination brackets
2 umpire per-game
3 umpire per-game once we're in semi finals all age groups
Game Time Limits 80 minutes
ASA Run ahead rule & Mercy rule in effect
Championship Games 7 innings
6 Softball Diamonds
6 Lighted diamonds
Great Concessions Stands
ASA UIC on site all weekend
ASA Commission on site all weekend
TD on site all weekend
2 TD assist on site all weekend
Game Time Limit PP, BP 1:20 minutes - complete the inning
Pool Play can end in a Tie Ball Game

Before any Championship Game is Started - Both Coaches will be told the total TE Funds and payouts structure for their Championship game based on total Teams in his/her age group and added funds from gates. If both Coaches agree they can divide the TE Funds or make some other type of deal on the TE Funds before the start of the Championship game.
*Championship game will start at Schedule Time with or without any agreements made*
​

"The follow Travel Expense payout structure is based on 15 Teams in each age group"
"Read How does it work for other other possible payout structures"

14 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
14 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout
12 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
12 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout
10 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
10 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout



As part of the TE Funds payout agreement winners and runner-ups will carry OFC/TSZ Banner and display it during events they attend until the 2017 Main Event #2.

"How does it work"

For ever team enter per age group $150 Dollars will be placed into a Travel Expense Tournament Fund. TE Funds will be paid out to the Winners and Runner-ups in each age group.
* We will increase the runner-ups TE payout based on teams enter per-age group plus gates. My Goals is to have a minimum of $1000.00 for the runner-ups.

If we fail to meet the minimum of 15 Teams in any age group, pay out structures will be on the followed. Teams x $150 = $$$$ with 75% going to the winners in the age group and 25% going to the runner-up.

Example 12 teams x $150 = $1800 in TE Funds $1350.00 going to winner and $450 going to runner-up.


The Goal of "Main Event #1" is to give back to the Girls Fastpitch Softball Community only! Allot of tournament have great causes that they support and that Fantastic. I just prefer to support Girls Fastpitch Softball that my causes. And the other Goal is promote the Ohio Fastpitch Connection @ thesoftballzone.com domain. I'm sure just hosting a event that paying out TE $$$$$$ will help promote this site just from people talking about this tournament.

Jeff Baker will have a Booth setup and will be Broadcasting 2 games a days on Diamond #1. Jeff will also being doing at least one Championship game as well.

A portion of the gates will be given to Stay In Softball

I really wanted to give out Team sponsorship's for this event but after talking it over with "ASA Ohio State Commissioner - Warren Jones" he said I couldn't do that! But I could host a event if I was paying out Travel Expense Funds/Money. So that what were doing. If you have any questions about playing in this event I suggest you do your own research before enter. Warren Jones said he would be happy to talk with to anyone that had any concerns about playing in this event. You can Contact Warren at 419.651.3335

Registration will be available by October 26th.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

We will also have a Booth setup for people to donate used equipment for Stay In Softball.

 

[coachjwb]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Wow! You and I had talked about this concept, Ricky, but the details are above and beyond what I was expecting. If it helps Stay in Softball, the Forum, and some teams to recover expenses, count me in 100%!

 

[Irish196]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Wow- just reading this - that is awesome Ricky. I just forwarded the info on to several people. I imagine this will fill up pretty quickly. Thanks!! BTW, the 27th is Meg's birthday.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Thanks Karen and Jeff, Karen we will see once we have the entry forms available for the Teams.

 

[tourn_director]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1"

$7500.00 in Travel Expense "TE Funds" Money
Travel Expense payout structure is based on 15 Teams in each age group

When - May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Entry Fee $450


Age Groups - 14u, 12u and 10 under


Location - Riverside Park Zanesville, Ohio


Playing under ASA rules thru out the tournament
​

Registration links will be available on the forum by October 26th.
We will take a maximum of 54 Teams

4 Game Guaranteed - weather permitting
2 games in Pool Play for seeding into Double elimination brackets
2 umpire per-game
3 umpire per-game once we're in semi finals all age groups
Game Time Limits 80 minutes
ASA Run ahead rule & Mercy rule in effect
Championship Games 7 innings
6 Softball Diamonds
6 Lighted diamonds
Great Concessions Stands
ASA UIC on site all weekend
ASA Commission on site all weekend
TD on site all weekend
2 TD assist on site all weekend
Game Time Limit PP, BP 1:20 minutes - complete the inning
Pool Play can end in a Tie Ball Game

Before any Championship Game is Started - Both Coaches will be told the total TE Funds and payouts structure for their Championship game based on total Teams in his/her age group and added funds from gates. If both Coaches agree they can divide the TE Funds or make some other type of deal on the TE Funds before the start of the Championship game.
*Championship game will start at Schedule Time with or without any agreements made*
​

"The follow Travel Expense payout structure is based on 15 Teams in each age group"
"Read How does it work for other other possible payout structures"

14 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
14 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout
12 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
12 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout
10 under $2,000.00 Winner maximum payout
10 under $500.00 * runner-ups minimum payout



As part of the TE Funds payout agreement winners and runner-ups will carry OFC/TSZ Banner and display it during events they attend until the 2017 Main Event #2.

"How does it work"

For ever team enter per age group $150 Dollars will be placed into a Travel Expense Tournament Fund. TE Funds will be paid out to the Winners and Runner-ups in each age group.
* We will increase the runner-ups TE payout based on teams enter per-age group plus gates. My Goals is to have a minimum of $1000.00 for the runner-ups.

If we fail to meet the minimum of 15 Teams in any age group, pay out structures will be on the followed. Teams x $150 = $$$$ with 75% going to the winners in the age group and 25% going to the runner-up.

Example 12 teams x $150 = $1800 in TE Funds $1350.00 going to winner and $450 going to runner-up.


The Goal of "Main Event #1" is to give back to the Girls Fastpitch Softball Community only! Allot of tournament have great causes that they support and that Fantastic. I just prefer to support Girls Fastpitch Softball that my causes. And the other Goal is promote the Ohio Fastpitch Connection @ thesoftballzone.com domain. I'm sure just hosting a event that paying out TE $$$$$$ will help promote this site just from people talking about this tournament.

Jeff Baker will have a Booth setup and will be Broadcasting 2 games a days on Diamond #1. Jeff will also being doing at least one Championship game as well.

A portion of the gates will be given to Stay In Softball

I really wanted to give out Team sponsorship's for this event but after talking it over with "ASA Ohio State Commissioner - Warren Jones" he said I couldn't do that! But I could host a event if I was paying out Travel Expense Funds/Money. So that what were doing. If you have any questions about playing in this event I suggest you do your own research before enter. Warren Jones said he would be happy to talk with to anyone that had any concerns about playing in this event. You can Contact Warren at 419.651.3335

Registration will be available by October 26th.

I think this is a very slippery slope and for a second I thought I was reading a Tim Cleaver post. I know this is all well intentioned for the reasons you mentioned but the thought of playing for cash for youth programs is at odds with my beliefs of what the youth game is about-- that is learning sportsmanship, seeing the benfits of hard work, not only by personal accomplishments but also by any scholarships garnered, lasting friendships, wholesome family time, etc. I have also seen what the play for cash scheme has done to men's slowpitch tournaments--that is they become cut throat! I believe you need to think this through and try to foresee any un-intended/adverse consequences. I think you can accomplish all your goals without the Travel Expenses angle.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

I think this is a very slippery slope and for a second I thought I was reading a Tim Cleaver post. I know this is all well intentioned for the reasons you mentioned but the thought of playing for cash for youth programs is at odds with my beliefs of what the youth game is about-- that is learning sportsmanship, seeing the benfits of hard work, not only by personal accomplishments but also by any scholarships garnered, lasting friendships, wholesome family time, etc. I have also seen what the play for cash scheme has done to men's slowpitch tournaments--that is they become cut throat! I believe you need to think this through and try to foresee any un-intended/adverse consequences. I think you can accomplish all your goals without the Travel Expenses angle.

Thanks for your feedback. You almost have your hands tied on what and how you can accomplish what I'm trying to do. And speaking of Tim he battle cancer right now. But believe me when I say my intention is to give back to the Softball cummuity.

 

[coachjwb]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Tourn director ... I have to admit that I felt pretty much the same way as you in the past. While I still do have some concerns, I have talked with Ricky several times about this concept and thought about it a lot and gotten more comfortable with it since then, especially in light of Ricky's intentions and approach here. There are definitely some watch-outs and no doubt some things that can be done up front to reduce the chance of issues. The really important take away for me is that it doesn't have to be an either-or ... by that I mean that the values you stated around sportsmanship, work ethic, teamwork, etc. are definitely most important and ought to still be able be at the forefront and not at odds with the fact that the winners are able to reduce their season's travel expenses.

I am sure there will be a lot more discussion around this subject ... and I know that Ricky will be listening to input and be willing to tweak some things if need be.

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Guys I applaud Ricky for giving back to the game. This does make me nervous for the reasons Bob stated. I got my start in the game in slow-pitch and when the sanctions started paying cash prizes around the middle to late 2000's, the game got nasty and cut-throat. People who were normally pretty good folks turned a different face when you put green out as a prize. This is when I decided it was time to go where the players genuinely play because they love playing and not for a big prize at the end.

I have heard of things like checks for prizes bouncing and TD phones all of sudden out of order when it came time to collect. Checks for entry fees not being made good on because someone thought they got hosed by an officials call, etc. Guys getting accosted at the park by people thinking that they had all of that cash on there person while there. It made me think of getting my Conceal/Carry for tournaments at Berliner because it gets a little scary there at night and that is where the bulk of our slow-pitch events were held. It also made me think if i had to go to that extreme just to host a ball tournament, maybe things were a little out of control.

Now before anyone calls me a hypocrite, USSSA does award travel expense reimbursement in the USA Select Elite program to the tune of $2400 for the fall event winners. That check comes right from the USSSA home office and may have a couple of stipulations with it.

I will keep my distance and watch from afar since I am always up for ways to improve our events and Ricky has genuinely always treated me very fairly.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

Guys I applaud Ricky for giving back to the game. This does make me nervous for the reasons Bob stated. I got my start in the game in slow-pitch and when the sanctions started paying cash prizes around the middle to late 2000's, the game got nasty and cut-throat. People who were normally pretty good folks turned a different face when you put green out as a prize. This is when I decided it was time to go where the players genuinely play because they love playing and not for a big prize at the end.

I have heard of things like checks for prizes bouncing and TD phones all of sudden out of order when it came time to collect. Checks for entry fees not being made good on because someone thought they got hosed by an officials call, etc. Guys getting accosted at the park by people thinking that they had all of that cash on there person while there. It made me think of getting my Conceal/Carry for tournaments at Berliner because it gets a little scary there at night and that is where the bulk of our slow-pitch events were held. It also made me think if i had to go to that extreme just to host a ball tournament, maybe things were a little out of control.

Now before anyone calls me a hypocrite, USSSA does award travel expense reimbursement in the USA Select Elite program to the tune of $2400 for the fall event winners. That check comes right from the USSSA home office and may have a couple of stipulations with it.

I will keep my distance and watch from afar since I am always up for ways to improve our events and Ricky has genuinely always treated me very fairly.

I'm receiving allot of emails about the event. Mostly cover rules to prevent teams or organization from cheating. The major concern from emails I'm receiving is stacking team (s) or organizations combining two or three teams into one team just to play in the "Main Event" only. Some very interesting emails. I would really like to see more debate on the forum on this concept and tournament.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

I copy the thread and put this up for debate. Do you just think it wrong to put up money as a reward for teams winning a event? Why do you think it wrong? Why shouldn't someone be able to give back to the teams by given them Travel Expense Funds? How would you accomplish given back or putting the money back into the girls softball community as a tournament director?

I'm not talking about Teams or organizations that put on event to support or raise funds for its own organizations or teams.

 

[okiedad1961]

Ricky, Since you've been in contact w Warren Jones,I'd like to know what was result of ASA huge Money ball tourney they put on this summer and what were concequences of the event ,maybe some ideas of how it went could give you some clues.

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Paul I haven't really followed that event ASA Money Ball http://m.teamusa.org/USA-Softball/Play-ASA/Youth/USA-Junior-Olympic-Cup/Tournament-Info but they had 28 teams paid the $5,000 dollar entry fee to play in that event. And from checking the team names they were some of the best teams in the country.

I'm not really sure if you could even compare what I'm doing and ASA did as even close to the same..

 

[HITTER23]

Re: TheSoftballZone Presents "Main Event #1" $7500.00 Travel Expense Money. May 27th, 28th and 29th of 2016

I think this is a very slippery slope and for a second I thought I was reading a Tim Cleaver post. I know this is all well intentioned for the reasons you mentioned but the thought of playing for cash for youth programs is at odds with my beliefs of what the youth game is about-- that is learning sportsmanship, seeing the benfits of hard work, not only by personal accomplishments but also by any scholarships garnered, lasting friendships, wholesome family time, etc. I have also seen what the play for cash scheme has done to men's slowpitch tournaments--that is they become cut throat! I believe you need to think this through and try to foresee any un-intended/adverse consequences. I think you can accomplish all your goals without the Travel Expenses angle.

Guys I applaud Ricky for giving back to the game. This does make me nervous for the reasons Bob stated. I got my start in the game in slow-pitch and when the sanctions started paying cash prizes around the middle to late 2000's, the game got nasty and cut-throat. People who were normally pretty good folks turned a different face when you put green out as a prize. This is when I decided it was time to go where the players genuinely play because they love playing and not for a big prize at the end.

I have heard of things like checks for prizes bouncing and TD phones all of sudden out of order when it came time to collect. Checks for entry fees not being made good on because someone thought they got hosed by an officials call, etc. Guys getting accosted at the park by people thinking that they had all of that cash on there person while there. It made me think of getting my Conceal/Carry for tournaments at Berliner because it gets a little scary there at night and that is where the bulk of our slow-pitch events were held. It also made me think if i had to go to that extreme just to host a ball tournament, maybe things were a little out of control.

Now before anyone calls me a hypocrite, USSSA does award travel expense reimbursement in the USA Select Elite program to the tune of $2400 for the fall event winners. That check comes right from the USSSA home office and may have a couple of stipulations with it.

I will keep my distance and watch from afar since I am always up for ways to improve our events and Ricky has genuinely always treated me very fairly.

I'm receiving allot of emails about the event. Mostly cover rules to prevent teams or organization from cheating. The major concern from emails I'm receiving is stacking team (s) or organizations combining two or three teams into one team just to play in the "Main Event" only. Some very interesting emails. I would really like to see more debate on the forum on this concept and tournament.

I think it made the mens tournaments more competitive with more on the line to win. I was winding down playing when this really got going full force and it did take the tournaments to another level. I would say it got harder to win than say it was "cut throat". Tournaments that would draw local teams now were bringing in teams serious about winning from all over the tri state area. Because there was more to play for besides a t shirt or berth.
As for the down side , theres that in everything you do. Those examples Bob & Mike was stating were there before pay out tournaments. You guys and i both know infamous TD stories from around S.W. Ohio slow pitch. And there will always be that team who tries to bounce a check or back out of paying here and there. What happened to them? They get banned by that sanction and word gets around and they dont end up getting in any more tournaments.
Most of these tournaments give award money in check form to get around the security issue. And isnt Berliners reputation already good for muggings and breakins? This isnt going to change that either way.

 

[okiedad1961]

Paul I haven't really followed that event ASA Money Ball http://m.teamusa.org/USA-Softball/Play-ASA/Youth/USA-Junior-Olympic-Cup/Tournament-Info but they had 28 teams paid the $5,000 dollar entry fee to play in that event. And from checking the team names they were some of the best teams in the country.

I'm not really sure if you could even compare what I'm doing and ASA did as even close to the same..

Thanks for the link Amazing a non big name won it ,Quite a payday Outlaws Gold 2-4 in the event.

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Ricky....the entire softball community is extremely appreciative of what you are trying to do, to give back to the softball community. Maybe I haven't thought this all the way through, but I have my share of concerns. Money is the root of all evil. When there is this much $ on the line, are ethics in jeopardy? The stakes are already pretty high when they are playing for big berths, the title, the pride...toss in a couple grand for the winner and...oh boy. I am thinking about that bang/bang play at the plate that doesn't go your way. You could not pay me enough to ump that final game and I LOVE to call games.
Looking forward to reading more debate on this, and more input from guys like JWB.

 

[wvanalmsick]

Ricky,

Have you talked with OHSAA? When we talked to them back in the Tim Cleaver days, they told us that this would make the girls (if there are some in 7-8 and 9-12 grade) ineligible for school sports (Softball).

 

[TheSoftballZone]

Ricky,

Have you talked with OHSAA? When we talked to them back in the Tim Cleaver days, they told us that this would make the girls (if there are some in 7-8 and 9-12 grade) ineligible for school sports (Softball).

After check the OHSAA
GUIDANCE ON BYLAW 4-10- AMATEUR – 2015-2016

I see nothing that would effect a players eligibile since the Team will get the Travel Expense funds.

Here a link if anyone care to read the BYLAWS http://www.ohsaa.org/eligibility/4-10GuidanceAmateur.pdf

 

[wvanalmsick]

After check the OHSAA
GUIDANCE ON BYLAW 4-10- AMATEUR – 2015-2016

I see nothing that would effect a players eligibile since the Team will get the Travel Expense funds.

Here a link if anyone care to read the BYLAWS http://www.ohsaa.org/eligibility/4-10GuidanceAmateur.pdf

They can except travel expenses IF the cash is not contingent upon the team's finish. In this case, the team has to finish 1st or 2nd in order to obtain the award.

Ricky, when I researched this about 5 years ago, I talked with Dr. Roxanne Price at OHSAA. She told me that, in the eyes of OHSAA, this type of tournament would violate the athlete's amateur status. Just relaying what I was told 5 years ago. The by-laws haven't changed and the people haven't changed. The "the team is getting the money, not the individual" argument was also dismissed by OHSAA. That was the argument that Tim used and Dr. Price shot him down.

1. Competing for money or other remuneration. An exception to this prohibition can be made if a student, who is competing in the amateur division within a competition where prize money is available,signs a written declaration prior to the competition in which the student agrees that he or she will not accept any prize money. A student may accept allowable travel, meals and lodging expenses provided that these expenses are not contingent upon the student’s individual or a team’s finish or performance or given as an incentive to achieve a specific goal or performance. Receipt of expenses received by the athlete shall be reported to the OHSAA so as to determine whether or not the expenses are in excess of those reasonable amounts for travel, meals and lodging. Click here to access the written declaration form: http://www.ohsaa.org/eligibility/Bylaw4-10-2RequestRetentionofAmateurStatus.pdf .

 

[TheSoftballZone]

OK at least it will make a great discussion for tonight show.