replacing players?

[lynnz0301]

My daughter joined her first 10u team this year. In the last tournament, even though we had all of the regular team members, her coach brought an extra girl. This girl had not been to any practices nor other tournaments. I came to find out that she is on a 12u team in the same organization. I'm a little upset because she replaced our regulars (who have practiced and paid to play) on the field. My daughter is the youngest and smallest on the team. She was essentially replaced. Before we decide to tryout for another 10u team I would like to know if this is a regular occurrence in travel ball? I thought once a team was set and the roster was created that was it. I didn't know you could just bring in extra players at anytime to replace players???

 

[Chad Strahler]

Yes you can and it does happen often unfortunately. If your going to continue to play travel you will see it and it's for many reasons I won't belabor right now. But I'd say just because your dd is small don't let that deter her. There are several small, very good ball players. Work with her at home as much as you can and make her so good she can't be replaced next year. Don't stop playing because of that, it's about life lessons also and if you do then your sending your dd the wrong life lesson pretty early in life

 

[lynnz0301]

She actually is already very good. She practices every day rain or shine. He didn't see her ability because he didn't even give her a chance. Seems this coach already had his core group of girls he was working with and she was just a body to fill a spot. He didn't put her in the outfield. He shoved her out there and forgot about her. I just don't want to invest tons of money in a travel organization of they are just going to replace players at will. That seems kind of shady to me. Why isn't it against the rules to have a player on the field that is not on the team and roster?

 

[daboss]

Wildcatz is making it as simple as they can and offering some great advice in the process. Life lessons play such a huge roll in every aspect of sports. Even in this case, you should be learning a few things as well if you didn't already know it. Make sure you are taking notes about all the things you want to know before committing to a team next season. As mentioned, it happens too often. This is one of the many reasons ASA adopted rules to try and stop such practices.

I suggest you talk to the coach before jumping to conclusions. There may be a reason you can accept. Over the years, I have found it necessary to call a kid and ask she sub for a team of mine. If I already knew the numbers were not in my favor for the weekend I would make sure we always had enough girls so we didn't need to forfeit. Didn't matter if it were injury or vacation, some times you have to plan ahead. If I asked a kid to come play, I made sure she got to play as much as the other girls. If they are willing to take the time out of their weekend to come to the park and help us out, I treated them as if they had been a part of our team the entire summer. You cannot ask a kid to come help out and put her on the bench to watch should the numbers end up dictating you have more than enough.

Parents plan vacations and some times those plans are changed. If a girl told me she wasn't going to be available a certain weekend then failed to let me in on the change of plans, there's a good chance she'll be the one that sits most of the weekend. I'll play the pick up girl. It's not as easy as you may believe to simply make the arrangements so I am not going to undo the effort once arrangements have been made. It
s only courteous to handle it this way. Now if the pick up player offers to bow out since we now have enough so be it.

There is always going to be a team's best player and a team's worst. There is always going to be a better player out there somewhere. The only sure fire way to know your child will not be the one sitting is to practice away from the park and help her hone her skills to a level that she is in constant demand to be an active player in the roster. Other than that, be sure you ask what the policy is for replacement players, or playing time in general, before joining a team and see if the answer is one you can live with. FYI, the older they get the more you'll see it in many organizations.

 

[lynnz0301]

I actually didn't expect her to play a whole lot in the games to be honest. She is only 8 on a 10u team. I just wanted her to gain some practice from an experienced coach. However, the girl he brought was not a "just in case" situation. It was a girl he was watching for the weekend and she wanted to play so he put her in a uniform and started her. She wasn't a sub. So I was a little discouraged by that. I agree with you on what you are saying. If a girl is asked to play because she might be needed and they take the time to come out than they should get to play. If that were the case I wouldn't have been upset at all.

 

[Pacerdad57]

I have to say it does happen much more frequently than it should. If you need a sub, by all means use a sub. I am of the opinion however that you don't bring subs to the games when you have at least 11 of your regulars in attendance.
why sit the girls that you as a coach deemed worthy of being on your team at the outset?
play with the ones ya' brung. It's an entirely different situation if you're dealing with injuries and
absences. But if you're bringing in subs be a use you think it gives you a better shot at winning or a
better chemistry, maybe you weren't so smart in your choices in the first go around.
especially when it ends up making no difference in the win loss columns.
it does create however a festering sore point with the players that have worked their buts off to play
ball for you and are suddenly discarded even if they are playing better than the subs.
hidden agendas suck, but there really isn't much you can do about it until next season, get opinions from
other parents, reputable coaches, instructors etc.

 

[ThompsonUSSSA]

IMO you should only pick up substitutes if the following happens:

1) You don't have enough healthy players to compete in a tournament.
*I believe this constitutes 10 players. 9 to play + 1 if an injury occurs.
2) If you don't have enough healthy PITCHING to get through scheduled games.
*example: Ok to pick up a pitcher if your looking at 4 or 5 games in a day and you only have 1 or 2 pitchers (or dealing with injured pitchers).


Picking up players for other reasons (ie "Winning" !) and players that have put in the work, paid team fees etc lose playing time for them is flat wrong. If you (the coach) committed to those players, and the players committed to you (fees, putting in required practice time and attending games...), then their is no reason other than having enough physical bodies (position players and/or pitchers) to get through.

Committment is a two-way street.

 

[sprat22]

In a fantasy softball world this would not happen, but in real softball world this does happen and will continue to happen as long as coaches want to win and parents want to win.

 

[Pacerdad57]

Great answer Thompson usssa.
All it does is kill the love of them game for kids that give it all they have.
you wanted them, you live with using them

 

[Danihughes]

This same exact thing happened to my 14u daughter this weekend. The coach brought a girl to play because instead of having 11 girls he was only going to have 9 on the last day of the tournament. However, he had enough girls from the team to play Friday and Saturday. He chose to start the girl who never practiced a single practice or played a single tournament over my daughter and another girl on the team who have been to every practice and every tournament. When questioned about it by me his response was "she plays better third base and SS" and then proceeded to yell at me about it not being rec ball. However, the girl In Right field played third base for him during school ball, and the girl at third base played SS for him through most of this season. IMO this was wrong on every level, because it destroys the continuity of the team as well as the moral because as a coach you have now told your girls that hard work, dedication and commitment mean nothing. My daughter played very well when she got to play and in my opinion made him look foolish, especially since they lost all 4 games. You can bet when she try's out for another team I am going to ask the coach his position on this type of scenario. Bringing girls up when you are going to be short and not enough players to play is one thing, but benching girls that give their time and effort and put everything into their team for a girl that didn't is wrong. My question is, am I wrong to feel this way? Is it win At all cost regardless of how it makes a girl feel?

 

[Jack Shaw]

I have no respect for coaches that do this. There are several out there. It kills the confidence of the players it happens to.

 

[Jack Shaw]

@ThompsonUSSSA you hit the nail on the head!

 

[Pacerdad57]

You are absolutely correct in your thinking in my opinion. We have had exactly the same thing happen
and it ends up souring the girls attitude towards the team. Why work hard and put your best effort out there if it means nothing. Wrong way for coaches to use subs.

 

[lynnz0301]

Very sorry this happened to your daughter dani! I agree with you in every level. A team is supposed to have each others back. A team is supposed to be a family. You can't have a team if it is that cut throat that players get replaced like that.

 

[ech92]

Our team took an extra player to Eastern Nationals last season for a couple reasons . The number one reason was I had 2 players whos parents had already made it clear they were unhappy and not returning the following season . They at this point were in many ways not showing any commitment to our team ( as stated before this is a 2 way street ) . Secondly this was a stud pitcher whom we were recruiting for the up coming season . With out this pitcher we would not have played more than 4 games , as it was with her we played 7 games . So I believe she actually bought everyone more playing time by getting us 3 extra games . By the way she joined our team this season . I would never ask a sub to play just because I wanted to replace a current player who is committed to our team .

 

[Westler33]

This is just all bad for the kids and their confidence like stated above. That is why there is a travel team for every skill level. find the best coach and best fit and enjoy a wonderful game.

 

[Pacerdad57]

Ech92, in essence this is exactly what you did. Somebody had to lose circle time to give way to the "stud" pitcher that you were recruiting g.
in season recruiting g can also hurt the team you are trying to read recruit from, hopefully they had that weekend off and didn't miss their pitcher, but that also affects the other team when a player goes back and goes on about the team she's found and is going to leave for.
anyway I look at it, I find it unfair to the players being subbed for if they are putting in the practice time and are committed to the team, especially finanacially. Play with what you picked in the first place always, with the exception of injuries or defections dropping your nunbers.

 

[coachjwb]

This is a tough one. I generally agree with most of the comments that you don't want to bench players who have been with you from the beginning for someone you pick up late. With that being said though, I think it can be a little different when you're talking about attending a nationals. First of all, I don't think you ever want to go to a nationals with less than 11 players if you can avoid it. If you get into the loser's bracket of a double elimination tournament, you can end up playing as many as 6-7 games in a day or I've heard of teams playing in as many as 10+ games in two days. If someone gets sick or injured, you can't ride 9 players through this many games or, even worse, risk getting down to 8. You're better off to pick up another player whose team isn't going to nationals and trying to get more games in for everyone. Now, coaches have to be a little careful as to how they use that extra player. If you ask them to come and in essence do your team a favor, you certainly need to play them and make them feel like they're part of the team. The few times I picked up an extra player, I would usually bat them at the bottom of the order the first game they played (and I would privately explain to them why), and I let them prove themselves to the rest of the team and "earn" their way up the batting order and/or on to the field. I also made sure the new player wasn't "replacing" the same person multiple games. Almost always, the girls were great and understood, but no doubt sometimes the parents still had issues.

 

[CARDS]

I do not know of anyone who would be opposed to bringing in a TRUE sub if a team had a player injured, or could not make a tournament.
IMO, when this happens the sub will fill the void to complete the roster EX: If 11 on team she would be 11.If a pitcher she would get the mound time of the pitcher she is replacing unless she was replacing one better and the current staff was better than the sub.
Generally; most teams have players that play more than one position and this situation should give some opportunity for committed team members to fill a void and start in their secondary position. (That they should be getting reps in practice for this reason)...
I did have a buddy call me in June with a horror story on a 18U Showcase team.
The Team had a great fall following up a fantastic 16U 2013 season. Several players dropped from the team after committing to a college so, they picked up three new girls for the summer. The team was not doing as well as the coach had hoped so he brought in 4 players that have already signed their NLI or were current college players and benched paying players that were on the team to showcase their skills.
A few years back I had an opposing coach ask how much we paid for our custom uniforms and how did I handle subs with the custom stuff. I told him I order one extra iset n case we need a sub and if we do need one we find a player that will fit in it... His response to me was he liked to keep it cheap and just wear t-shirts or razorbacks that way he could get plenty of jerseys for subs, keep the same color scheme and use them year in and out
I have seen this scenario play out more and more over in our last 4 years of showcase ball so, it is happening at all age groups.

 

[ech92]

Ech92, in essence this is exactly what you did. Somebody had to lose circle time to give way to the "stud" pitcher that you were recruiting g.
in season recruiting g can also hurt the team you are trying to read recruit from, hopefully they had that weekend off and didn't miss their pitcher, but that also affects the other team when a player goes back and goes on about the team she's found and is going to leave for.
anyway I look at it, I find it unfair to the players being subbed for if they are putting in the practice time and are committed to the team, especially finanacially. Play with what you picked in the first place always, with the exception of injuries or defections dropping your nunbers.

As I stated there were 2 girls who were no longer showing any commitment to our team ( 1 of them was a pitcher ) . Secondly the Stud pitcher was released from her previous team and was undecided on were she wanted to play the following year . Ill also mention that this girls family approach us about subbing for us . Last but not least we let the girls vote weather to bring her or not and guess what , everyone voted yes except the 2 girls whom we were having issues with .