Sportsmanship - running up the score or showing mercy?

[Fairman]

As a HS Coach I've had two diametrically opposed experiences with this question.

One game against the top team in the division, we had a freshman on the mound, loosing 5-0, she lost the grip and ball rolled toward second. The umpire called an illegal pitch and advanced the runner from third to home. I called time and talked to the umpire he called in the field ump. When it became apparent that they were confused they asked the opposing team about the rule and the entire coaching staff said they 'didn't know the rule'....the run scored and they went on the win by 15 and the game was over in 2 1/2 innings. The umpires called me before the bus left the parking lot and apologized for getting the call wrong, it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome but it was rather noble of them. Those coaches lost my respect forever, his kids didn't learn much, the bus ride was longer than the game and my starters only got 1 at bat while a sub never saw the field.

Same season different team: they were up by 8-0 and the coach pulled most his starters and let his subs play. When we started to come back and scored some runs he reinserted his starters and finished the game. They won it 10 to 7. We played all seven innings, we got through our line-up 3-4 times and his subs got some innings.

The second coach could have run up his stats and crushed my team but instead he allowed a full game to be played, my kids were able to hold up their heads and his younger kids got some playing time. It was a win all around.

BTW: The first team got crushed in their first playoff game much to my delight.

 

[The Dude]

Perhaps a good first tie-breaker for seeding purposes in travel ball tournaments would be 'runs allowed' as opposed to 'run differential'. Although I would definitely quell an offensive onslaught in a game that appears to be out of hand, I would never want my team to not be at it's defensive best at any point in time during any game.

 

[raidian70]

I have on both ends of the spectrum. I will admit that to me when I have been on the losing end, the step off the base. Is a bigger slap in the face than playing the game the right way. My kids should have an opportunity to make the outs and if not it is my fault and will certainly give a renewed focus at the next practice. But...If you stealing, scoring on passed balls, and taking as many bases as possible that is wrong too. It is a fine line and especially tough if you don't have a fence on the field.
My daughter as a pitcher has had this happen to her when she has struggled at times and it certainly didn't help her to learn how to get out of a tough spot. But it did motivate her all winter in her workouts.

 

[bucketime]

Lot of good opinions out there; I too have been on both ends I did leave base early one time to end inning (about 12u) and the other team felt insulted. I feel if it is 95 degrees outside and I have to just mercy and get off that field and get my players out of sun...guess what..we are going full force. And on my losing end guess what I just got my butt kicked lesson learned...no surgar coating...that's life and that's college softball if that is the route they want to go. And if you lose and want to complain about getting your butt kick; what are you teaching your players???? To whine?? Trust me we were a good team not an "Elite" team and we had our butt handed to us a time or two. Don't enable your players teach them ..hey that's life poop happens.

 

[MD 20/20]

When I think of this scenario, I think back to the year that my team started. We were 9 playing 10U. Pitching was 9, catching was 9. We were far weaker, slower, etc than almost every team that we played that summer. We won some games where it was a lesser team or a younger team but we got drilled most weekends.....ALL WEEKEND!!!! There was a particular game that I remember, we were playing another team from western PA and they are up like 17-1 and the coach is still stealing, taking extra bases, cranking runners home, and it is obvious that this game was never out of his hand. Why do this. I understand that it's travel ball, but I don't care what the tie-breaker is, get your run-rule and get off the field. Save your players energy.

I have always thought that every manager should go through a summer like we did. It really put things into perspective as far as sportsmanship, gamesmanship. I also don't think that everyone giving their opinion on this has been through this. To say that your team has had opportunities to make plays is not always the case. Sometimes you are simply overmatched by a better team. "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap". Now I'm not saying your team is chicken crap, and neither was my team, but when my 9 year old pitchers were the speed of BP, and every girl in the line-up is going gap after gap, there isn't a whole lot we could do about it. When coaches let off the gas, I knew it and thanked them for it after the game. Years forward, I have been fortunate enough to be on the other side more often. I will never forget the helpless feeling I had and will never do that to another team. I let my foot off the gas, The other coach realizes and always thanks me as well. I've never met a coach who was pissed that we let off the gas.

 

[OH Scrappers]

But when do you "let off the gas"? Last year in school ball our team was up 9-1 going into the last inning, we change a lot of positions, we "let off the gas". Next thing you know it is 9-7 and we need to bring in our starters again to get the 3 outs. Parents of the kids that got pulled out when the starters came back in were ticked off that their DD didn't get to finish the game, it was a nightmare. The following game we are up 6-0 and a parent from the other team came over and started screaming at us that we were running up the score and showing bad sportsmanship????? It was the 4th inning and I saw what happened last time I "let off the gas". It is just a very slippery slope. Your there to teach the ladies to win with respect and dignity, but little Suzie who been on the bench all year and gets a chance to play, crushes a ball, should I hold her to only a single or let her get that stand up triple she may never hit again? It is a very interesting dilemma.

Trust me I have been on the other end of this also and it sucks, but I really had no problem with a coach continuing to play hard when the he/she had the game in hand. The only thing that bugs me is when the other team has the game in hand and then argue calls with the umpire. I mean really, your up 14-0 and your arguing balls and strikes? Come on man!

 

[spartansd]

I think one thing you can do in tournament play is cap the run diff at 8 or 10 runs. So there is little incentive to win by 20.

So then it comes down to runs allowed. Which is a team stat.

We rarely have this issue anymore. But we typically only play really good teams. And the games are usually 1-run affairs. But when we were coming up the ranks and with different orgs (playing B level) this is always a bigger issue. At the top levels you usually do not get into games with such big spreads. But at the B level it happens mostly because of the lack of consistency. One day your pitcher is a wreck the next day she is Jenny Finch. IMO typically the largest difference between A and B is consistency of play and players. Talent is not necessarily the biggest difference.

As far as how to handle it. IF you have a pitcher that can throw strikes then that is the best remedy. Change out and keep going. Walking off bases should only be used to end a long inning. I like the bunt everyone approach also. Work on something. When on the other end use it as a motivation tool. This is when you find out if the focus is on winning or getting better. The team focused on winning crumble but the team focused on getting better will enjoy the challenge of trying to get a run or holding the other team.

 

[MD 20/20]

But when do you "let off the gas"? Last year in school ball our team was up 9-1 going into the last inning, we change a lot of positions, we "let off the gas". Next thing you know it is 9-7 and we need to bring in our starters again to get the 3 outs. Parents of the kids that got pulled out when the starters came back in were ticked off that their DD didn't get to finish the game, it was a nightmare. The following game we are up 6-0 and a parent from the other team came over and started screaming at us that we were running up the score and showing bad sportsmanship????? It was the 4th inning and I saw what happened last time I "let off the gas". It is just a very slippery slope. Your there to teach the ladies to win with respect and dignity, but little Suzie who been on the bench all year and gets a chance to play, crushes a ball, should I hold her to only a single or let her get that stand up triple she may never hit again? It is a very interesting dilemma.

Trust me I have been on the other end of this also and it sucks, but I really had no problem with a coach continuing to play hard when the he/she had the game in hand. The only thing that bugs me is when the other team has the game in hand and then argue calls with the umpire. I mean really, your up 14-0 and your arguing balls and strikes? Come on man!

Let off when you have your run-rule in hand. Get them off the field. save their energy for the next game.....


School ball now is a slightly different story. I think you better know your team, your opponent, if you plan to empty your bench, what part of their order is coming up.....All of the variables. Every school team is different with different talent levels. any parent who's complaining about a score being "run-up" in a 6 run game is not worth the breath to argue with. Or you cold pull them aside and quietly discuss the previous days game, either way, I'm sure they will hear what they want to hear.

 

[JoeA1010]

But when do you "let off the gas"? Last year in school ball our team was up 9-1 going into the last inning, we change a lot of positions, we "let off the gas". Next thing you know it is 9-7 and we need to bring in our starters again to get the 3 outs.

It's a good question. I am a strong proponent of not running up the score, but I don't ever want to find myself in a close game because my team let off the gas. I think the answer is that, as a coach, you just have to know when the other team is so outmatched that there is no chance they are going to come back. And you can err on the side of caution and keep playing hard when you're aren't sure.

 

[backstop09]

As a HS Coach I've had two diametrically opposed experiences with this question.

One game against the top team in the division, we had a freshman on the mound, loosing 5-0, she lost the grip and ball rolled toward second. The umpire called an illegal pitch and advanced the runner from third to home. I called time and talked to the umpire he called in the field ump. When it became apparent that they were confused they asked the opposing team about the rule and the entire coaching staff said they 'didn't know the rule'....the run scored and they went on the win by 15 and the game was over in 2 1/2 innings. The umpires called me before the bus left the parking lot and apologized for getting the call wrong, it wouldn't have made any difference to the outcome but it was rather noble of them. Those coaches lost my respect forever, his kids didn't learn much, the bus ride was longer than the game and my starters only got 1 at bat while a sub never saw the field.

Same season different team: they were up by 8-0 and the coach pulled most his starters and let his subs play. When we started to come back and scored some runs he reinserted his starters and finished the game. They won it 10 to 7. We played all seven innings, we got through our line-up 3-4 times and his subs got some innings.

The second coach could have run up his stats and crushed my team but instead he allowed a full game to be played, my kids were able to hold up their heads and his younger kids got some playing time. It was a win all around.

BTW: The first team got crushed in their first playoff game much to my delight.

I'm not real sure about this one. The umpires supposedly asked the other coaches about a rule? Really?? You say the other team didn't know how the accidental "pitch" should be treated. Well, did you ever stop to think that maybe they didn't know? There are many people, coaches and fans alike who get confused when this happens. If you were so sure about the rule, call time and pull out your rule book. This isn't a judgment call, it's an application of a rule issue so you are within your rights to make sure that the rule is applied correctly. It's a ball on the batter and still a live ball so wouldn't the runner have scored anyway? If this really supposedly did happen in Ohio HS ball, how did the game end after only 2 1/2 innings - regardless of the score. Our run rule is 10 runs or more after the losing team has batted at least five times.

 

[crystlemc]

I'm not real sure about this one. The umpires supposedly asked the other coaches about a rule? Really?? You say the other team didn't know how the accidental "pitch" should be treated. Well, did you ever stop to think that maybe they didn't know? There are many people, coaches and fans alike who get confused when this happens. If you were so sure about the rule, call time and pull out your rule book. This isn't a judgment call, it's an application of a rule issue so you are within your rights to make sure that the rule is applied correctly. It's a ball on the batter and still a live ball so wouldn't the runner have scored anyway? If this really supposedly did happen in Ohio HS ball, how did the game end after only 2 1/2 innings - regardless of the score. Our run rule is 10 runs or more after the losing team has batted at least five times.

Fairman lives in PA, not OH.

 

[SB Fan]

Great posts. Run differential cap would help. Max of +10 for seeding purposes, etc.

 

[Fairman]

We are in PA.

This particular coach that 'didn't know the rule' has coached for almost 20 years in a successful program including a pair of daughters one of which pitched. He knew the rule, his professional pitching coach knew the rule, h--l the concession stand knew the rule. The umpires who also ump baseball just were confused.

Proving something doesn't exist in the rule book is a very difficult thing. The umpires remember seeing something about it so we'd go to pitching and then to the batter, and then to the runner and then we'd go here and then there it would take 15 minutes.

I decided that getting out the rule book, holding up play and most of embarrassing two decent umpires that I'll be sure to have again (and again) was not something I wanted to do. When my program becomes more competitive maybe they'll remember that I wasn't an idiot when a rule is critical.