Tactical Game-Play?, Classy?, Morally Sound? - Scenario 1

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Given the "thread of the week", I was inspired. LOL. Injured player leaves team A playing with 8 and taking an out for each plate appearance.
Bottom of the last inning (time expired) and Team A is batting and puts up three runs, closing the gap to 5 but has two outs.
Injured player (automatic out) is "on deck". Team B asks, "Can we intentionally walk this batter to get to the automatic out?" The legal answer is no (for NSA at least) but this thread isn't about the "legal".
Release the Hounds; let's hear what you think.

 

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Tougher question if Team A closed the gap to 1 instead of 5, but regardless, no, I would not intentionally walk her in a youth game.

 

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You cannot in NSA: When a team is left with a vacant spot in the lineup because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order.

 

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You cannot in NSA: When a team is left with a vacant spot in the lineup because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order.

What happens if the batter does happen to receive ball 4 unintentionally? Does she stay at bat until she either strikes out, or hits the ball? Have never come across the situation in NSA.

 

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How can you not unintentionally walk someone? I can only think of three out of all my kid's walks that were intentional. Explain that rule to me and how it works.

 

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This is copied directly from the 2014 Fastpitch section of the NSA Rulebook (page 98 in the PDF version: When a team is left with a vacant spot in the lineup because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order. This would also include catcher obstruction to the previous batter or the previous batter being hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball. If the previous batter is walked or hit by a legal or illegally pitched ball, the vacant spot is skipped, the "AUTOMATIC OUT" is waived, and the next batter is the player whose name follows the vacant spot in the batting order. This only applies when there are two (2) outs.

 

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Ya learn something new every day. Thank You!

 

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Seems like a stupid rule to me, particularly at the younger age groups.

 

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Im glad that rule wasnt around when I played. I unintentionally walked thousands of hitters in my day.

 

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You cannot in NSA: When a team is left with a vacant spot in the lineup because of a player as described in Sec. 4 (b), the opposing team may not, with two outs, intentionally or unintentionally walk the previous batter in order to get the "AUTOMATIC OUT" created by the vacant spot in the batting order.

In my opinion that is a BAD rule. In effect they are giving the short handed team an advantage - when they should assume the penalty for only having 8. NSA seems to feel they need to legislate a moral code for a coach.

Personally I would not walk her - but we would not pitch her fat either.

 

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BTW - is that the same rule in NSA Adult leagues?

 

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Going back to the initial question, isn't it really a mute point. Server up a fat meatball. Even if she hits a grand slam you are still up by 1 with the injured play on deck out number 3, your team wins. And from the sounds of the rule if she gets walked intentionally or unintentionally you could lose.

A little twist on this thread. Found out last year, after the fact, if a team only has 9 and one is eject then they can NOT continue with 8 and forfeit the game. At least that is in ASA.

 

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Wow, great a thread that won't keep me up at nights..

I think its a dumb rule.

 

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Mark that has been a rule in both adult and youth for as long as I can remember in NSA. NSA has amended some things along the way that relate to it. We used to have the same "go down to 8 with no sub" rule in fast-pitch as ASA where the game is over if this occurs. The first youth tournament I had ended on this when a runner leveled the catcher late in the championship game to end it. Umpire tossed her as he should since she lowered her shoulder and destroyed this poor catcher and the team didn't have a replacement so game over and tournament over. This was in 2000. Now the coach can play with 8 and take an auto out every time up.

I do not know what the intent of the walk/unintentional walk rule was but when I played adult slow-pitch way back in the late 80's, I remember the rule.

We used to play league and sometimes a guy would have to get off to work or another game so we went down to 9. Auto out every time up after that.

NSA used to have a adult rule that you could not start a postseason game with less than 10 players. Now how would you like to be the TD to have to tell some poor team that drove 3-4 hours to play a World Series, that they just forfeited because some poor guy is lost on the freeway trying to find the park and he made 10?

BTW - is that the same rule in NSA Adult leagues?

 

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Wow, great a thread that won't keep me up at nights..

I think its a dumb rule.

The rule isn't the question. The question is "Is trying to intentionally walk a player to get to an automatic out considered good tactical game play? Is it Classy? Is it Morally Sound?

 

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It's grey area. "What is moral?"

Rules are rules. Like them or not - they're put on paper for a reason. It's part of the game. therefore, you should be able to consider it tactical.

However, Classless or Immoral could also be applied depending on who you ask.

 

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This reminds me of something that happened in a game that I was coaching.

Consolation semifinals of a double elimination tournament, coach comes over and tells me they will be taking an out for one of their players. It was a bad week for her to be at the ball field, I'm sure you understand. He told me while my team was batting. I watched my girls bat and thought about that. I wouldn't want to lose a game over something like that. I also wouldn't want any of my girls thinking they lost us a game. When my kids took the field on D I went to their coach and pointed out the guy keeping my book, I told him to work it out how ever, I just didn't feel right taking the out. I didn't want it.

So time is out, we are tied, they are batting and home team, 1 out, runners on 2 and 3, they are going to win the game. I tell my pitcher to walk the batter so we have a force. She didn't know what to do. She threw a pitch that was outside but easily could have been hit. I said no, little kid, roll it if you need to, she can't hit the ball, we need the bases loaded. She rolled a ball, from the other dug out area I hear "What's he doing???" She rolls another ball, I hear the same voice say "That's chicken $h17!!!" No, champ, it's smart. Taking the out would have been chicken $h17 in my opinion.

So the bases were loaded, next batter hits the first pitch, hard. I thought the game was over but my left fielder caught it inches off the ground on a dead sprint forward. Doubles up on the throw the 3rd, the crowd goes wild, and we are in ITB. We scored about 8 runs or something crazy like that in ITB and won the game. Momentum is one hell of a thing. We ended up winning the 1st game of the finals but lost the 2nd.

Thanks for starting this thread. Good memory, one of my favorites.