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the3dm
thanks - you listed most of what i asked
more info the better !!
straightleg
thanks - you listed most of what i asked
more info the better !!
straightleg
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Did you notice that he said he provides the info at tryouts? He posted them here because you asked. Like I said up top, you can call or pm pretty much any coach on here holding tryouts.
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Why make people e-mail, pm or call coaches when they can put the information right there in the try out text. I guess that would be saving everyone a little time. One of the main things I would really like to see is their feelings on kids playing other sports. If they feel that you need to make all of the offseason works (offseason if there is such a thing anymore) then maybe you need to pass on that org. The org's take the time to write the tryout information: take a little more time after writing the information and ask yourself is there anything in their I would like to know. Put yourself in the players position because they read the tryout information, not just the parents. You can never have to much information about something that involves your kids.
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The fact is that it is almost impossible to calculate the actual costs of a team - only the basics. ?Here are some points for thought.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO TRAVEL
Stay away from the major travel organizations, such as the Lasers, Ohio Ice, Buckeye Heat, Heart of Ohio, and Stingrays. ?The orientation of those programs is generally toward qualifying for national tournaments, which means they will spend at least 3-4 weekends on the road, with all of the associated costs. ?These organizations are also most likely to play close to a year-round schedule, including fall and winter tournaments and frequent practices.
Travel, after fees, is the MAJOR EXPENSE for most travel families. ?The only other one that might come close is lessons (pitching, hitting, catching).
TOURNAMENTS
Tournaments come and go, or sometimes they just move locations or weekends.
No team can guarantee all of the tournaments they will attend, or what they will cost. ?Some are "invitationals" that look to limit the field. ?Other times, qualification for a national tournament will dictate what tournament you play in, but you don't know where it will be until after the first of the year. A coach can describe what tournaments they would LIKE to enter, but there is no firm guarantee that a team can get into the most competitive tournaments, unless their organization sponsors that tournament.
SPONSORSHIPS AND FEES
Some teams get sponsors. ?Some teams do fundraising. ?Some teams just say "Here is the bill" and let you write a check. ?Don't believe that some programs cost less than others. ?The money just comes from different places. ?The major expense of a travel team is tournaments and uniforms. ?The number of tournaments has the biggest variable. ?Ballbags and such aren't free, they are in those fees somewhere. ?Maybe there is a team that is so sponsor-laden that they can they can charge a tiny fee and let the girls play a competitive schedule, but don't count on it. ?(If you are out there, PM me!)
PRACTICE
The wider the area you draw from, the more practices are going to cost, in real terms. ?We have parents now who are driving over an hour (each way) for a two-hour practice. ?Gas must cost at least $20 for that trip, plus the time. ?If you just have to drive to the other side of Bugtussle, it is probably not a big deal. ?(And do you have access to free fields and indoor facilities, or do you have to pay for them?)
But the more you practice, the better you get.
SYSTEMS
Do you have a system you follow as a team? ?Those things cost money too, and extra practice,. ?But those teams are generally better.
If you are a players shopping for a team based on what it costs, I wouldn't want you at my tryouts. ?(No worries, I am not a coach, and don't make player decisions. ?So, this is MY opinion.)
The real question is what are you looking to buy?
It is fair to call any of the coaching contacts ahead of tryouts and see if the experience that that team is trying to create matches what you are looling for. ?Then, you can ask about the costs.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO TRAVEL
Stay away from the major travel organizations, such as the Lasers, Ohio Ice, Buckeye Heat, Heart of Ohio, and Stingrays. ?The orientation of those programs is generally toward qualifying for national tournaments, which means they will spend at least 3-4 weekends on the road, with all of the associated costs. ?These organizations are also most likely to play close to a year-round schedule, including fall and winter tournaments and frequent practices.
Travel, after fees, is the MAJOR EXPENSE for most travel families. ?The only other one that might come close is lessons (pitching, hitting, catching).
TOURNAMENTS
Tournaments come and go, or sometimes they just move locations or weekends.
No team can guarantee all of the tournaments they will attend, or what they will cost. ?Some are "invitationals" that look to limit the field. ?Other times, qualification for a national tournament will dictate what tournament you play in, but you don't know where it will be until after the first of the year. A coach can describe what tournaments they would LIKE to enter, but there is no firm guarantee that a team can get into the most competitive tournaments, unless their organization sponsors that tournament.
SPONSORSHIPS AND FEES
Some teams get sponsors. ?Some teams do fundraising. ?Some teams just say "Here is the bill" and let you write a check. ?Don't believe that some programs cost less than others. ?The money just comes from different places. ?The major expense of a travel team is tournaments and uniforms. ?The number of tournaments has the biggest variable. ?Ballbags and such aren't free, they are in those fees somewhere. ?Maybe there is a team that is so sponsor-laden that they can they can charge a tiny fee and let the girls play a competitive schedule, but don't count on it. ?(If you are out there, PM me!)
PRACTICE
The wider the area you draw from, the more practices are going to cost, in real terms. ?We have parents now who are driving over an hour (each way) for a two-hour practice. ?Gas must cost at least $20 for that trip, plus the time. ?If you just have to drive to the other side of Bugtussle, it is probably not a big deal. ?(And do you have access to free fields and indoor facilities, or do you have to pay for them?)
But the more you practice, the better you get.
SYSTEMS
Do you have a system you follow as a team? ?Those things cost money too, and extra practice,. ?But those teams are generally better.
If you are a players shopping for a team based on what it costs, I wouldn't want you at my tryouts. ?(No worries, I am not a coach, and don't make player decisions. ?So, this is MY opinion.)
The real question is what are you looking to buy?
It is fair to call any of the coaching contacts ahead of tryouts and see if the experience that that team is trying to create matches what you are looling for. ?Then, you can ask about the costs.
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So what is next, tryouts via email and the internet?
Part of the tryout is the coach interacting with the girls and the parents.
All of the above mentioned topics can be used to engage the coach in meaningful conversation.
You have to do your research but you need to get out of the computer chair to get it done.
Part of the tryout is the coach interacting with the girls and the parents.
All of the above mentioned topics can be used to engage the coach in meaningful conversation.
You have to do your research but you need to get out of the computer chair to get it done.
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Many times organizations do not know 100% the fee. Why because there are so many variables. Many times the fundraisers that are done as an organization like working a stand at local events, or car washes, or reverse raffles will cover much of the cost, but with the unknown of how much tournaments will be charging, and the cost of uniforms/equipement increasing, it's a guessing game. I don't know any organization or individual team that can eat the cost for under stating fees.
We have it good here. How about going to California, Texas, or Florida where it cost you just to tryout for the top teams. For example, in 2004 the Corona Angels were charging $1000 a non-refundable fee to just tryout. What they do guarantee you if you make the team and stay within the organization is a division one scholarship. Corona Black $500 to tryout, with an immediate deposit if offered a postiion on the team for good faith monies.
I know as a parent, having been there myself, that it is difficult to make choices when finances need to be considered. You have to ask yourself three questions.
1. What level of desire does my daughter truly have to play softball :
. Is this more my desire than hers? :'(
2. If my daughter truly wants to play college ball, have I had some type of unbias point of view to confirm this is possible,and if so at what level would she most likely have a legitemate chance. Is it worth the effort and cost to go for a team that meets the needs of getting my daughter noticed.
3. What will the cost provide my daughter? Additional training, coaching level, type of coaching style, is this about a team or a group of individuals, and did I see chemistry between the girls at tryout and the coach?
If for any reason you cannot answer the first question from your childs point of view, you really need to reconsider whos playing ball for whom. :-[
I can't tell you how many times over the years I have seen kids playing for their parents, not for the love of the game.
Thoughts to ponder . . .
We have it good here. How about going to California, Texas, or Florida where it cost you just to tryout for the top teams. For example, in 2004 the Corona Angels were charging $1000 a non-refundable fee to just tryout. What they do guarantee you if you make the team and stay within the organization is a division one scholarship. Corona Black $500 to tryout, with an immediate deposit if offered a postiion on the team for good faith monies.
I know as a parent, having been there myself, that it is difficult to make choices when finances need to be considered. You have to ask yourself three questions.
1. What level of desire does my daughter truly have to play softball :
. Is this more my desire than hers? :'(2. If my daughter truly wants to play college ball, have I had some type of unbias point of view to confirm this is possible,and if so at what level would she most likely have a legitemate chance. Is it worth the effort and cost to go for a team that meets the needs of getting my daughter noticed.
3. What will the cost provide my daughter? Additional training, coaching level, type of coaching style, is this about a team or a group of individuals, and did I see chemistry between the girls at tryout and the coach?
If for any reason you cannot answer the first question from your childs point of view, you really need to reconsider whos playing ball for whom. :-[
I can't tell you how many times over the years I have seen kids playing for their parents, not for the love of the game.
Thoughts to ponder . . .
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We have been told that we are one the cheapest concerning fess. Sideliner is correct though. Travel cost per team is about the same, money comes from different sources. Average cost to run a team per year is approx. 10G. We charged $450 this year and that included 2 uniforms, helmet, embroidered visor, and hoodie. We played 1 fall tournament, 1 winter tournament and winter league at spano. 7 tournaments this summer and we are going to nationals. We rented spano for 10 total weeks and another hitting facility for 8 weeks. We rely a lot on fund-raisers. Unfortunately, for 2009 we will need to raise fees to cover steeper prices everywhere else. But we are going to give the parents a way to earn a portion of their fees back. Keep in mind that every year coaches probably dump a G or 2 on their teams as well.
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Just my opinion but....if I were looking to join a team or attend a tryout...the most important aspect for me anyway would be to have a good gut feeling that my daughter would learn from these coaches and that she would be on a competitive team with other girls wanting to continuously improve their game. Most teams will always provide a detailed breakdown of the tourneys they have targeted and what team fees will be right out of the gate. Perhaps newer teams still feeling their way into the travel ball world might fail to realize the importance of printing this type of information but my guess is they would be very open in answering all questions of parents interested in their teams. No deception required....I have also seen teams work with parents who may not be able to come up with that kind of money upfront.....again I think it has to be a mutual feeling that the player and parent would be beneficial to the team as would the organization to the player and family.
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"So what is next, tryouts via email and the internet?" ? ?;D
That's a good idea!! ?Let's just post our player profiles and skill videos, and teams can make offers.
That's a good idea!! ?Let's just post our player profiles and skill videos, and teams can make offers.
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I did tryout a 12u player two years ago via email. Her family was moving to our area from MI so I had her mom send me MPEG video of her daughter going through a tryout with the organization she was leaving. She will be coming back for her third year in 2009.
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Straightleg, you have the first half correct. Figure out what you want.
Few (if any) travel teams are trying to hide information about fees and plans, the fact it, the correct answer is "It depends...."
A community team or an travel team that wants to compete above rec level without breaking the bank or doing overnights can come closest to answering the question up front.
If your family is not ready to pay - EACH YEAR:
$500-700 in fees
$100-300 in supplemental fees for practice fields, etc.
$1000-$2000 for lessons for position players (maybe less for just batting lessons)
$100-400 for personal equipment
$500-$1500 (and up) for travel related expenses and gas
Then, here is your answer.
Top-level travel ball is not for you. Look for a community team, or a "travel" team that only goes to one or two away tournaments and takes picks up practice when school ball is over, with a few winter batting lessons thrown in.
The money comes from your pocket, or you fund-raise to make it, or you get sponsors. But the cost is the same.
Few (if any) travel teams are trying to hide information about fees and plans, the fact it, the correct answer is "It depends...."
A community team or an travel team that wants to compete above rec level without breaking the bank or doing overnights can come closest to answering the question up front.
If your family is not ready to pay - EACH YEAR:
$500-700 in fees
$100-300 in supplemental fees for practice fields, etc.
$1000-$2000 for lessons for position players (maybe less for just batting lessons)
$100-400 for personal equipment
$500-$1500 (and up) for travel related expenses and gas
Then, here is your answer.
Top-level travel ball is not for you. Look for a community team, or a "travel" team that only goes to one or two away tournaments and takes picks up practice when school ball is over, with a few winter batting lessons thrown in.
The money comes from your pocket, or you fund-raise to make it, or you get sponsors. But the cost is the same.
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Vipers coach - good post.
I run across a team that I want my dd to play for. good coach's, tons of defense. good practice. most likely a asa team.
she made tryouts last year. I like the team - the coach's know I like them, and I want my dd playing for them
She tells me, she plays 3 sports and wants 5-6 tournaments. ? ?That is not what a asa team wants
What I look for is a place for her to play, like lots of other parents, that want to make there dd happy.
Info on tryouts makes it easier for me to find her a place
Straightleg
I run across a team that I want my dd to play for. good coach's, tons of defense. good practice. most likely a asa team.
she made tryouts last year. I like the team - the coach's know I like them, and I want my dd playing for them
She tells me, she plays 3 sports and wants 5-6 tournaments. ? ?That is not what a asa team wants
What I look for is a place for her to play, like lots of other parents, that want to make there dd happy.
Info on tryouts makes it easier for me to find her a place
Straightleg
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many good points and a topic that could go on forever...
The Static have several ways of handling this and varies slightly between head coaches. ?My team (10u for 2008 and 2009) takes an approach that is pretty good (of course no bias here). ?
Upfront fee is around 325.00. ?Like the others, we have 7-8 tourneys, spring/summer league, Insurance, 3 SETS OF uniforms, insurance, indoor traning, and all the wrappings that everyone else has...
The cool thing is we share our financials with each parent all year long and at year end all monies go back to the players equally. ?Non-profit is non-profit and it's about the players. ?Gaining sponsors and fundraisers allow the team the oppurtunity to reduce the total expense and that is huge. ?Most fundraise as a necessity and if everyone understands that every single dime is for "them" they will contribute much more. ?I stole this from one of our other Static coaches and it works.
Perception is huge and is in bed right next to the first impression and our tryout information covers this when we close our day at tryouts.
The Static have several ways of handling this and varies slightly between head coaches. ?My team (10u for 2008 and 2009) takes an approach that is pretty good (of course no bias here). ?
Upfront fee is around 325.00. ?Like the others, we have 7-8 tourneys, spring/summer league, Insurance, 3 SETS OF uniforms, insurance, indoor traning, and all the wrappings that everyone else has...
The cool thing is we share our financials with each parent all year long and at year end all monies go back to the players equally. ?Non-profit is non-profit and it's about the players. ?Gaining sponsors and fundraisers allow the team the oppurtunity to reduce the total expense and that is huge. ?Most fundraise as a necessity and if everyone understands that every single dime is for "them" they will contribute much more. ?I stole this from one of our other Static coaches and it works.
Perception is huge and is in bed right next to the first impression and our tryout information covers this when we close our day at tryouts.
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It is true! When my DD switched beginning of this year from a large elite Cincy organization to the Static 12U black we were surprised by the lower fees and openness. Financials are passed out regularly with the Static. Never, not once with the other org. Not that its a real big deal, never looked at it anyway but nice that they offered! We're paying less fees, why question that! Sponsors and fundraisers are a huge help. And they refund unused fees!! All non-profit, about the kids, organizations should be this open and honest! Why not.
Sponsors and fundraisers are a huge help. And they refund unused fees!! All non-profit, about the kids, organizations should be this open and honest! Why not.
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I understand and hear what you are saying on the cost and expence of travel. it is important and we would all be a fool to think it isn't. However if you let location and $ be the determining factor you will probably get what you pay for. Disapointment is allways lurking around the corner. My suggestion woudl be go to as many try-outs as you can - it will be great practice for your daughter. you can view the other potential players and parents , coaches . This is very important when planning to spend all of your spare time over the next year with them. Believe me there will be some that you will attend and leave saying I don't care if it is Free your not playing for that team.
If you don't want to travel then there are alot of good rec teams out there that are cheap to play for, you will be home every weekend and travel localy.
Travel ball is expensive $500-$700 and probably more in some cases and less in others. not a big enough diff in my book to not get the right team that is the right fit. I think they don't advertiset it so much because those that are true travel ballers and been doing this for awhile know what it cost and maybe they arn't looking for players where this is an object.
If you don't want to travel then there are alot of good rec teams out there that are cheap to play for, you will be home every weekend and travel localy.
Travel ball is expensive $500-$700 and probably more in some cases and less in others. not a big enough diff in my book to not get the right team that is the right fit. I think they don't advertiset it so much because those that are true travel ballers and been doing this for awhile know what it cost and maybe they arn't looking for players where this is an object.
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Last year at our inaugural tryouts, we provided an information packet for anyone coming to the tryouts. This year we will do the same but will include specific tournaments we attended and the berths we earned. We try to think of all the questions we would ask as a parent and put them in black and white for the parents to read while their daughters are trying out. At the end we had an optional information/discussion session. We ended up staying way past the end of each tryout just talking to the girls and their parents. Our emphasis of communication on all levels helped earn us a few commitments last year. As far as finances went, open book and our budget was out there for all to see. We also requested that anyone receiving an offer, pay an initial $100 of the fees to secure their slot. After that, parents could pay monthly but some paid everything up front.
This worked very well for us and we will continue with this process.
This worked very well for us and we will continue with this process.
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Outcastfastpitch
dido... We like doing that too and it shows parents what you are about.
Multiple tryouts should be mandatory if you are a parent looking for a "fit".
dido... We like doing that too and it shows parents what you are about.
Multiple tryouts should be mandatory if you are a parent looking for a "fit".
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This is an interesting topic and one that has no end. I have often wondered why the fee structure is a big deal at all. consider this..... it is much like buying a used car. there is a retail price, a wholesale price and a dealer price level. now of course we would all like to be able to get it at the dealer price. however lets consider this this used car is a little special. it looks awesome, drives like it's on rails, and makes you feel like a million dollars to have it parked in your driveway. now what is the value of that car? what if there are only so many like it and you just have to have one of them? in the end this is what looking for a solid travel team is like.
there are plenty of teams out there. some charge little or nothing and some charge over $1,000.00. which one is better? it's hard to say. the big difference here is this. more often then not the ones that cost alot do so for a reason. its called "supply and demand" they are not chasing the family or player that is already concerned about the cost from the first moment of the tryout. they want the family and player that is more concerned about being able to compete and make the team that they know will be competitive next season and help get the player closer to their goal. this family and player while concerned about the price is much more concerned about the situation and the possibilities. thats why there are so many teams anymore. some just want to play and thats fine. others expect to win and that is why they really get better. there is room for everyone and that is the way that it will always be. if and when price alone is the factor then this game will have taken a step backword in my opinion.
I encourage everyone who is looking for a quality team to play with to focus on what the team plans on doing and what they have done. what they have done is often the best indicator of weather or not what they are doing will take them where they want to go. ask what tournaments they intend to play. this does matter, do not over look it. you must also understand what tournaments matter in the state and surrounding areas. ask about the coaches qualifications (or if they even have any other then being sally's dad) and that they kept the scorebook last year. ask if the organization (if they have one) make the coaches attend clinics etc. in order to better prepare themselves to help your daughter develop as a player. these are critical if you are really serious about this sport. if you are not and you are lony looking for a social atmosphere then i would stick with a team that is close and cheap. it will undoubtedly be the best fit.
This is not an easy process, but then again neither is buying a hot used car that is in high demand. just like the unique car, good teams are in high demand. be prepared, do your homework and you may find that you could be the right fit for the right team or organization. the upfront costs are only a small portion of what travelball will cost you. by paying a little up front to be on a quality team, you may not mind so much the 100's of dollars you spend over the weekend if you are playing in the last game of the tournament. it does hurt much more when you spents the same 100's of dollars and were out early on saturday. just a thought.
best of luck to all
there are plenty of teams out there. some charge little or nothing and some charge over $1,000.00. which one is better? it's hard to say. the big difference here is this. more often then not the ones that cost alot do so for a reason. its called "supply and demand" they are not chasing the family or player that is already concerned about the cost from the first moment of the tryout. they want the family and player that is more concerned about being able to compete and make the team that they know will be competitive next season and help get the player closer to their goal. this family and player while concerned about the price is much more concerned about the situation and the possibilities. thats why there are so many teams anymore. some just want to play and thats fine. others expect to win and that is why they really get better. there is room for everyone and that is the way that it will always be. if and when price alone is the factor then this game will have taken a step backword in my opinion.
I encourage everyone who is looking for a quality team to play with to focus on what the team plans on doing and what they have done. what they have done is often the best indicator of weather or not what they are doing will take them where they want to go. ask what tournaments they intend to play. this does matter, do not over look it. you must also understand what tournaments matter in the state and surrounding areas. ask about the coaches qualifications (or if they even have any other then being sally's dad) and that they kept the scorebook last year. ask if the organization (if they have one) make the coaches attend clinics etc. in order to better prepare themselves to help your daughter develop as a player. these are critical if you are really serious about this sport. if you are not and you are lony looking for a social atmosphere then i would stick with a team that is close and cheap. it will undoubtedly be the best fit.
This is not an easy process, but then again neither is buying a hot used car that is in high demand. just like the unique car, good teams are in high demand. be prepared, do your homework and you may find that you could be the right fit for the right team or organization. the upfront costs are only a small portion of what travelball will cost you. by paying a little up front to be on a quality team, you may not mind so much the 100's of dollars you spend over the weekend if you are playing in the last game of the tournament. it does hurt much more when you spents the same 100's of dollars and were out early on saturday. just a thought.
best of luck to all
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This thread is an "oldie but goodie"...What's changed since 2008? Thoughts?
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I know one thing that's changed is us. We are far better consumers at tryouts than we were at our dd's first run-through -- asking questions, knowing what subjects to pursue, etc.
