ASA Tournament Teams/Coaches......what format do you like best?

[Simpsoj]

Being new to tournaments I wonder if you can help me with the type of format that teams like best. We hope to host several tournaments in the Cincinnati/Hamilton area next year and we've been wondering about what teams/coaches like best. Consider the perfect tournament for you, what would the format be?

If you have the opportunity to have the ?perfect? tournament what would it be:

1. Pool play + Two and out
   1. Short 1hr games or something else for pool play
2. Two and out ONLY
3. Three game guarantee
4. Pool play + 1 and out
5. Something else? (Please be specific)

 

[mogsoftball]

3 pool + single elimination (4 game guarentee)
80 minutes finish the inning

that's pretty standard

 

[hititwhereitspitched]

One that I've grown to like, used at Hope's Turn at Bat in Mayfield. It's 60 minutes, finish the inning, plus one more full inning. Seems to take a lot of the guess work out of the equation.

 

[SonicMojo]

The general preference, though not the general practice is:

8u, 10u, and 12u: 2 pool play, followed by double-elimination
14u, 16u, and 18u: 3 pool play, followed by single elimination

There's a thread about this somewhere on here.

 

[Creek01]

I enjoy the ASA style schedule. 2 pool games seeding you into double elimination. At least 1:15 finish the inning in pool play. 1:30 finish the inning bracket play. Showcases I prefer to still to have a bracket. It doesn't feel right to play 5 games and just go home. I like what Stingrays do. 4 pool play into single elimination.

 

[Coach Sonny]

I also enjoy two or three pool into a double elimination format. 75 min pool games and 90 min bracket...all finish the inning. The DUMBEST thing I have seen is the revert back to the prior inning rule I have seen in Indiana USFA events.

 

[Static_97_North]

2 pp and dbl elimination with 90 minutes.

 

[Dawgsdad]

2 pool play games but 3 would be great then into a double elimination bracket with 75 minutes and finish the inning.

 

[BA824]

Definatlty prefer double elimination after 2 or 3 game pool play. Also at least 1:20 minute time limit finish the inning

 

[wvanalmsick]

What time of the year are you looking at? If it is early season, I would want more pool games with unlimited batting order so that I can get the whole team more playing time to get them ready for the main part of the season.

I know that's not a choice but something to chew on.

Also, the type of tournament and the caliber of the teams will drive the format. If it is a sanctioned qualifier for a regional or National berth, then there will be a format that has to be followed, no matter which sanctioning body. If it is a showcase with no berths on the line, then you are open to whatever format you want.

Since you are new to the scene, I would suggest you contact Mike Craig, the State USSSA Director. Mike has done hundreds of tournaments and he can help you get going. USSSA is a good sanction to get started in holding tournaments, especially with Mike giving you advice.

 

[ech92]

I would love a 3pp into double elimination with at least hour & 20 finish the inning . Something I wish they would go back to was a true seeding #1 thru what ever . I dont like the predetermined brackets A vs bracket B and so on . I know it takes a little more work & lots of tiebreakers to work thru but if you have 16 teams I want them seeded 1 thru 16 based off their 3 pp games . Also love roster batting !

 

[Mike_Craig_-_Ohio USSSA]

First: Thanks Bill for the kind words. I think this is one of our umpires out of the Hamilton area, so we should be in good hands here.

Second: I am thinking of hosting an early season invitational type event with 4 pool into single-elim for 10u & 12u teams. Thoughts?

Third: Do teams really like Double-Elim formats? It seems like for every coach who tells me they love them, the next guy or gal says I like the 3 pool-single elim format better. One thing I do notice is the coaches who love them are usually the higher end coach with a strong team which makes total sense.

Fourth: Just a general question on format for a state tournament. I am thinking of the 3 game guarantee bracket for a state tournament. If you have ever seen these, they are the ones that look exactly like double-elim except the the losers bracket has another round of games built into it for the 0-2 teams to continue advancing thru the losers bracket. Once out of the second round, it is straight double-elim and a team making a big run still has to double-dip the winners bracket champ (some people get these brackets confused as a triple-elim bracket but they are not true triple-elim because the teams further in the losers bracket do not stay alive when they lose for the second time). I guess the old slow-pitch director in me thinks you want to come out with your best and get as far in that winners bracket as possible if not undefeated and someone has to beat you twice to win the event. I get pool games and they are a necessary "evil" so to speak, but when you get to state tournament time teams are not looking for scrimmages but want to cut to the chase and get after it right away. At least the better ones.

Any thoughts as this is a great place for me to learn "true" team mentality on the subject.

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

One of the things I have seen taking place more often is the creation of Gold, Silver & even Bronze brackets (call them what you want). Seeding the teams based upon their pool play performance.
The berths are awarded only to top finishers in the top bracket, but more teams stay at the park later. This means more in concession sales, but also more games, umpiring fees, game balls.
This game is supposed to be about the girls and that format usually allows more teams to play more games, and teams who might otherwise go 3 & out could potentially be playing ball at 6 PM on Sunday. You honestly have to love that!
The smiles on their faces when these girls are grabbing hardware for finishing 2nd in the silver division (10th overall if 16 teams are in that total age division) is just priceless!
Their pictures are blasted all over Facebook and they smile just as wide with their trophies for a job well done.
You have to admire that.
A potential drawback of that format is that the 4th best team (predictably the 4th best team) could draw the 1st & 2nd best team in pool play, go 0-2 & wind up in the 2nd division, not getting a shot at the title. Sure that is possible.
Bottom line, I want competition at it's highest level and I want the game to end when my team is ahead, whether that is 1:15, or 1:30.

 

[Simpsoj]

wvanalmsick,

I know Mike and have worked tournaments with him in NSA, maybe USSSA soon too. However, I just UIC'd/Ran my first ASA National Qualifier and want some input from teams as to what they like. My commissioner isn't big on pool play.......he doesn't like the teams manipulating outcomes etc. which I understand. However, I think the girls and coaches like to have a couple games to warm up so I thought I would ask! Thanks for the input!

 

[Simpsoj]

I also enjoy two or three pool into a double elimination format. 75 min pool games and 90 min bracket...all finish the inning. The DUMBEST thing I have seen is the revert back to the prior inning rule I have seen in Indiana USFA events.

That's what we almost did at Tealtown.......we managed to get out of that thought process though!! Thanks again for coming Sonny......!!

 

[Coach Sonny]

That's what we almost did at Tealtown.......we managed to get out of that thought process though!! Thanks again for coming Sonny......!!

I am so glad that you guys put together a fall ASA/USA "A" Qualifier in Southwest Ohio. You drew teams from NC, MI, TN, OH, KY and IN...it was great to play such a variety of teams from so many different areas. Thanks Again! Sonny

 

[Simpsoj]

I must say it was fun to see the level of play that showed up. Frankly, I think the Ohio teams showed very well! The 12U winner was local so that was nice and the 14U's from OH played well. I enjoyed it. Hope to have a little better handle on a few things next year but it was a learning experience for me. Come play with us again......we will have at least two more next year. Hopefully more!!

 

[Captain_Thunder]

wvanalmsick,

I know Mike and have worked tournaments with him in NSA, maybe USSSA soon too. However, I just UIC'd/Ran my first ASA National Qualifier and want some input from teams as to what they like. My commissioner isn't big on pool play.......he doesn't like the teams manipulating outcomes etc. which I understand. However, I think the girls and coaches like to have a couple games to warm up so I thought I would ask! Thanks for the input!

Are the result for that Qualifier posted anywhere?
Usually all the ASA results can be found on line - but it seems all the info for that event was pulled off.......Please let me know where it is hiding......

The DUMBEST thing I have seen is the revert back to the prior inning rule I have seen in Indiana USFA events.

If you have to do Drop Dead, can't see any fairer way to do, then to revert back.......But unless, it is fall or really bad weather issues, I don't think any TD starts out with this option!!!
I played my last event EVER at TealTown this summer!!! The grounds crew DOES NOTHING to get the fields ready if it rains, or is calling for rain! Played in a 60 minute Drop Dead there on a Sunday, for what was supposed to be a 3 day event.......Doesn't matter the organization - it happens due to weather......
But NO ONE should waste their team's funds to play at TealTown!!!! Cause if it ain't sunny, then you are the fool for playing there..........

 

[wvanalmsick]

wvanalmsick,

I know Mike and have worked tournaments with him in NSA, maybe USSSA soon too. However, I just UIC'd/Ran my first ASA National Qualifier and want some input from teams as to what they like. My commissioner isn't big on pool play.......he doesn't like the teams manipulating outcomes etc. which I understand. However, I think the girls and coaches like to have a couple games to warm up so I thought I would ask! Thanks for the input!

Ahhh. Sorry, I thought you were a newbie.

Yes there are some coaches who will manipulate pool games but how else would you seed teams into bracket play (other than a blind draw). You could make one of your pool games absolutely meaningless. It wouldn't count for anything to do with seeding. Just 2 teams playing ball. We do this at Stingray's. 4 pool games, the last one is against a team from another pool and is not used at all for seeding. Gives teams a chance to play all the girls and it also gives the tournament staff about 2-3 hours to finalize the pool results and set the brackets. You are not holding up the tournament waiting on figuring out the seeds.

 

[Coach Sonny]

Are the result for that Qualifier posted anywhere?
Usually all the ASA results can be found on line - but it seems all the info for that event was pulled off.......Please let me know where it is hiding......

Results from the ASA/USA Home Plate Classic National Qualifier Milford Ohio.

14-U Tournament Finish
1. Team NC
2. Ohio Emeralds
3. Valley Extreme
4. Worth Cobras
5. Cincy Static Neon
6. Static Elite
7. Ohio Classics
8. Cincy Slammers
9. Doom Barns
10. Louisville Lady Sluggers
11. Batbusters
12. Gators
13. Doom Romans
14. Frost Falcons
15. Dooms 2
16. OFC Heat
17. Knoxville Speed


If you have to do Drop Dead, can't see any fairer way to do, then to revert back.......But unless, it is fall or really bad weather issues, I don't think any TD starts out with this option!!!
I played my last event EVER at TealTown this summer!!! The grounds crew DOES NOTHING to get the fields ready if it rains, or is calling for rain! Played in a 60 minute Drop Dead there on a Sunday, for what was supposed to be a 3 day event.......Doesn't matter the organization - it happens due to weather......
But NO ONE should waste their team's funds to play at TealTown!!!! Cause if it ain't sunny, then you are the fool for playing there..........

We were in a game in the pouring rain and we got down 4-0 while our team was on defense cuz we couldn't even grip a ball because it was coming down so hard. They delayed the game to be played the next day and decided AFTER that instead of it being the first of a double elimination game that the tournament would now be single elimination and that this game was now our elimination game. We came back the next day and outscored our opponent 8-0 and thought we won except that they reverted back and we lost 4-2...WOW! Even the umpire congratulated us on the win but TD came out to parking lot to tell us that we lost. I am sorry but that in NO way is fair. FAIR would be to finish the inning and NOT to revert back to the prior inning after 60 min time expired that was originally supposed to be 80 mins. They made it an elimination game AFTER the game was delayed...how is that fair? We won BIG but still lost and had to go home...lol.