ASA Tournament Teams/Coaches......what format do you like best?

[Captain_Thunder]

We were in a game in the pouring rain and we got down 4-0 while our team was on defense cuz we couldn't even grip a ball because it was coming down so hard. They delayed the game to be played the next day and decided AFTER that instead of it being the first of a double elimination game that the tournament would now be single elimination and that this game was now our elimination game. We came back the next day and outscored our opponent 8-0 and thought we won except that they reverted back and we lost 4-2...WOW! Even the umpire congratulated us on the win but TD came out to parking lot to tell us that we lost. I am sorry but that in NO way is fair. FAIR would be to finish the inning and NOT to revert back to the prior inning after 60 min time expired that was originally supposed to be 80 mins. They made it an elimination game AFTER the game was delayed...how is that fair? We won BIG but still lost and had to go home...lol.

Sonny, that does suck! Innings should be able to be finished.....but if weather makes that impossible to get entire tourney in, by a Sunday evening - then you either have that rule for EVERY Team, or you cancel the event - what would have been better for ALL the teams????
My question for that game - did they get to bat that inning? If shoe was on other foot & a team goes ahead of you in the top of an inning & game is called - Then there is a legit unfairness.........I think that is why this rule isn't used by anyone unless weather related or time constraint.....

Are those results posted on ASA???
I usually find ALL results here http://gfp.tournamentasa.com/
I was wanting to see the individual scores, pool play & bracket

 

[TheTruth99]

What time of the year are you looking at? If it is early season, I would want more pool games with unlimited batting order so that I can get the whole team more playing time to get them ready for the main part of the season.

I know that's not a choice but something to chew on.

Also, the type of tournament and the caliber of the teams will drive the format. If it is a sanctioned qualifier for a regional or National berth, then there will be a format that has to be followed, no matter which sanctioning body. If it is a showcase with no berths on the line, then you are open to whatever format you want.

Since you are new to the scene, I would suggest you contact Mike Craig, the State USSSA Director. Mike has done hundreds of tournaments and he can help you get going. USSSA is a good sanction to get started in holding tournaments, especially with Mike giving you advice.

WOW go figure a usssa umpire promoting ussssa lmao Alos hundreds

 

[ngill]

I would love a 3pp into double elimination with at least hour & 20 finish the inning . Something I wish they would go back to was a true seeding #1 thru what ever . I dont like the predetermined brackets A vs bracket B and so on . I know it takes a little more work & lots of tiebreakers to work thru but if you have 16 teams I want them seeded 1 thru 16 based off their 3 pp games . Also love roster batting !

I'll touch on a number of points brought up in the thread.

Prefer double elimination. 2pp - 3pp would be better. Actually think seeding #1 thru whatever is not the way to go. Teams should always be in groups for pool play. You only focus on your group and how you finish in your group. Seeding 1 thru whatever means you are thinking about runs allowed and runs scored because you know there will be ties. So you may not try new things (pitch less used pitchers, try new position combinations, pick-offs, etc.) that may cost you a run or two and a higher seed. Then, having the spots in the bracket pre selected you know exactly where you play as soon your pool games are done and don't have to wait until all games are done.

Longer the game times possible the better. However never want drop dead of any type. If there is a concern about game times shorten the finish the inning time. If time is short, I would rather have 50 minute finish the inning than 60 minute drop dead. Also, if time is short be sure umpires are ready to start games ASAP.

In terms of seeding into Gold and Silver brackets for pool. I understand the reason for it, more teams a chance to play teams similar to themselves and to "win", but I am not a big fan of it. An option to allow lower seeds better opportunity to play similar opponents early in bracket is to give pool winners or higher seeds automatic byes deeper into the bracket play. Similar to what many conferences like the big ten does for their basketball tourney where the top 4 get double byes. That eliminates those first round highest seeds vs lowest seeds first round mismatches. Mainly an issue for single elimination brackets. If double elimination the losers bracket provides that opportunity (thus reason I prefer double elimination in the first place).

 

[wvanalmsick]

WOW go figure a usssa umpire promoting ussssa lmao Alos hundreds

I am not an umpire for any sanction.

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

I'd just like to see 7inn guarantee every game in pool and bracket ............. A lot of these teams their players can't go 7inns.
More realistic for college coaches!
Like the 4gg format ....pool....winner moves to on side loser moves to other ... Then seeded into double elimination bracket!
Dayton metro does a nice job with this format! Players would also like championship t-shirts instead of trophy's in upper divisions...or even the rings!
Wish we could get away from timed games and play the whole game! JMO

 

[Simpsoj]

Ahhh. Sorry, I thought you were a newbie.

Yes there are some coaches who will manipulate pool games but how else would you seed teams into bracket play (other than a blind draw). You could make one of your pool games absolutely meaningless. It wouldn't count for anything to do with seeding. Just 2 teams playing ball. We do this at Stingray's. 4 pool games, the last one is against a team from another pool and is not used at all for seeding. Gives teams a chance to play all the girls and it also gives the tournament staff about 2-3 hours to finalize the pool results and set the brackets. You are not holding up the tournament waiting on figuring out the seeds.

Newbie in some ways but information is always good to have, even if it's in my back pocket! That 3rd game thing is kind of novel, in my opinion! However, I think if you have someone working on the ASA site it calculates everything for you and you just fill in the brackets! I only saw a few minutes of demonstration but I think it will work nicely given that someone does that work for you/us.

My major interest is what do teams/coaches want to play. It appears that pool play is a "must" and I understand that.

Thanks for the replies.......much appreciated.

Jim

 

[Simpsoj]

I'd just like to see 7inn guarantee every game in pool and bracket ............. A lot of these teams their players can't go 7inns.
More realistic for college coaches!
Like the 4gg format ....pool....winner moves to on side loser moves to other ... Then seeded into double elimination bracket!
Dayton metro does a nice job with this format! Players would also like championship t-shirts instead of trophy's in upper divisions...or even the rings!
Wish we could get away from timed games and play the whole game! JMO

LOL.....love the Lombardi quote! It would be nice to have complete games all the time. It might be possible with small divisions but would require that teams continue to hustle in and out, limit warming up each inning and it would make for a longer more drawn out tournament. Something I'll consider if I/We get some small divisions and have 3-days to play it!

 

[Coach Sonny]

Sonny, that does suck! Innings should be able to be finished.....but if weather makes that impossible to get entire tourney in, by a Sunday evening - then you either have that rule for EVERY Team, or you cancel the event - what would have been better for ALL the teams????
My question for that game - did they get to bat that inning? If shoe was on other foot & a team goes ahead of you in the top of an inning & game is called - Then there is a legit unfairness.........I think that is why this rule isn't used by anyone unless weather related or time constraint.....

Are those results posted on ASA???
I usually find ALL results here http://gfp.tournamentasa.com/
I was wanting to see the individual scores, pool play & bracket

I say that it should either be true "drop dead" and score is what it is but much prefer finish the inning in those scenarios. Our team shouldn't be penalized for having a big inning that lasts too long.. The other team could just purposely not get us out to get the win if that is the way it is done. This facility had lights so I think they could have made it work. The tournament director posted that on their FB site. I could not find it on the ASA site but it is required to be on there so I hope to se it inputted soon.

 

[coachjwb]

Several random thoughts ...

* Agree that this game was meant to go 7 innings, so that is always the ideal. But understand why it's not often possible. Championship games should always be though.

* The phrases "drop dead" and/or "revert back" should never be in any tournament rules.

* Some will disagree with this, but any format where a team may have to play more than 4 games (absolute 5 max) in one day should be avoided. It's generally not good for the physical or mental health of the players (or coaches or parents for that matter). Double eliminations are obviously most likely to create this, but it also means that if you're doing single elimination for more than 16 (or 32 teams), that elimination needs to start Saturday instead of Sunday. Everyone likes the thought of playing lots of games, but I think that it's short-sighted and unwise.

 

[ngill]

I'll touch on a number of points brought up in the thread.

Prefer double elimination. 2pp - 3pp would be better. Actually think seeding #1 thru whatever is not the way to go. Teams should always be in groups for pool play. You only focus on your group and how you finish in your group. Seeding 1 thru whatever means you are thinking about runs allowed and runs scored because you know there will be ties. So you may not try new things (pitch less used pitchers, try new position combinations, pick-offs, etc.) that may cost you a run or two and a higher seed. Then, having the spots in the bracket pre selected you know exactly where you play as soon your pool games are done and don't have to wait until all games are done.

Longer the game times possible the better. However never want drop dead of any type. If there is a concern about game times shorten the finish the inning time. If time is short, I would rather have 50 minute finish the inning than 60 minute drop dead. Also, if time is short be sure umpires are ready to start games ASAP.

In terms of seeding into Gold and Silver brackets for pool. I understand the reason for it, more teams a chance to play teams similar to themselves and to "win", but I am not a big fan of it. An option to allow lower seeds better opportunity to play similar opponents early in bracket is to give pool winners or higher seeds automatic byes deeper into the bracket play. Similar to what many conferences like the big ten does for their basketball tourney where the top 4 get double byes. That eliminates those first round highest seeds vs lowest seeds first round mismatches. Mainly an issue for single elimination brackets. If double elimination the losers bracket provides that opportunity (thus reason I prefer double elimination in the first place).

And let me add, for timed games, umpires should have countdown timer hanging on a fence available to see. Not go by time on a watch or phone.