? the need to travel around the country for tourneys

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I am not knocking anyone, just stating facts. If anyone can `t handle the truth, that is their problem.
My kid was considered one of Ohio`s best coming out of high school. When she was at Ohio St. we saw just how good the west coast kids are, because she played WITH several. Coming in they were better prepared to face college pitching. Why? Because they had faced better pitching their entire summer careers. They may have had better training and they played more games because of the weather out west. Lots of things made them better as freshmen. However I could site many cases where our Ohio kids eneded up being as good or better by their Jr/Sr years in college.

 

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I am not knocking anyone, just stating facts. If anyone can `t handle the truth, that is their problem.
My kid was considered one of Ohio`s best coming out of high school. When she was at Ohio St. we saw just how good the west coast kids are, because she played WITH several. Coming in they were better prepared to face college pitching. Why? Because they had faced better pitching their entire summer careers. They may have had better training and they played more games because of the weather out west. Lots of things made them better as freshmen. However I could site many cases where our Ohio kids eneded up being as good or better by their Jr/Sr years in college.

Dont wory about it, you can describe a train wreck to someone in great detail, and it still dosent do the event justice........... its something they have to experience for themselves, if you live in a small safe secure world and never see beyond your own front yard as far as softball goes , that is your world and what you relate to.Unfortunatly that is normal for 50 to 75 % of the softball parents and programs in the state........ the only way it changes is for teams to travel outside their own zone of safety and experience the real world............ as normal Punchout your pretty much right on the money

Tim

 

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I am not knocking anyone, just stating facts. If anyone can `t handle the truth, that is their problem.
My kid was considered one of Ohio`s best coming out of high school. When she was at Ohio St. we saw just how good the west coast kids are, because she played WITH several. Coming in they were better prepared to face college pitching. Why? Because they had faced better pitching their entire summer careers. They may have had better training and they played more games because of the weather out west. Lots of things made them better as freshmen. However I could site many cases where our Ohio kids eneded up being as good or better by their Jr/Sr years in college.

Yeah, ... Anyone who wants to be the best, or at least in the same conversation would want to examine why the best is the best ... and honestly assess, and reassess. Playing softball for fun, school pride, etc is just fine also!!! ... No need to get hung up on it, right?!?

Also, it is not like anyone here is saying that Ohio softball is "bad" either, right? It is a discuassion about assessment, personal goals, what it would take (and why) to get into the conversation with the individuals (and states) that have a few advantages and are at the VERY top of the sport.

If "YOU" were recruiting, where would you spend your time, considering quality, and depth? Where would you rank Ohio softball at the pre-college level, at this point? Definitely behind CA & AZ. Who else is "clearly" ahead of us ... FL? TX? AL? TN? GA?

IN, IL, PA also seems to produce strong teams and players. Ohio seems to me to be "Top 10", maybe as high as 5th or 6th from time to time? Opinions?

We have taken some teams to Indiana, the East Coast, the South ... and POUNDED some State Champs who did not know what hit them, or even where Ohio was on a map, exactly.

One year at 12u (we were 11u) we destroyed some older 12u team from New Hampshire that was the ASA State Champs, banners, bumper stickers, tee shirts, flags waving everywhere ..... it was at 12u, they were older all 12's ... one of the moms was very nice and told me that they NEVER play that bad, she wasn't sure what happened?? ... I didn't have the heart to tell her we were younger than them and all 11's, just simply MUCH more talented, and NOT the best team in Ohio that year either. The following year as older 12u at ASA in CA, I felt just like that N.Hampshire mom as we watched the 2 best teams in CA (Lakewood Ladies & Victory USA went on the play in the Final) beat us handily on our way to a top 10 ASA finish. Proud as heck that year, but we knew the difference between the very very best, and us. That year the Slammers were the talk of the tournemnt, beating the L.Ladies (defending ASA Nat'l Champs) 1-0, before running out of gas, finishing 5th. Slammers actually could have won it that year, with 11-12 players that mostly all lived within 20 minutes of each other.

Moral of the story, it's just understanding where you stand, deciding on what you want, and working and getting it ... Whatever that is for you. Secondarily, Ohio is VERY good, but there is better out there at the moment, and we can handle that reality without sticking our heads in the sand.

 

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good post pic. I'd place Ohio in the top 4 to 6 . We have a lot of depth that some other states don't have , and place teams in the top 10 pretty constitiently . MD

 

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good post pic. I'd place Ohio in the top 4 to 6 . We have a lot of depth that some other states don't have , and place teams in the top 10 pretty constitiently . MD

Thanks Dan, just an opinion. I agree with you, there are probably 3-4 states clearly ahead but weather and population sure helps those states. Ohio usually shows up at most big tournaments with a team or two that makes some noise.

No pressure in 2010 ... but we are all counting on you. .... (keep it fun).

 

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This has been a good thread for me to come up with. Reading it has offered me some entertaining material. Most of you guys can't decide with side of the fence you are on. I think you just like to see your posts on the web. Nothing wrong with that. I get that way my self sometimes but you should keep track of the point you are actually trying to get across. Thanks for the reading material.

 

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This has been a good thread for me to come up with. Reading it has offered me some entertaining material. Most of you guys can't decide with side of the fence you are on. I think you just like to see your posts on the web. Nothing wrong with that. I get that way my self sometimes but you should keep track of the point you are actually trying to get across. Thanks for the reading material.

I can see the point they are making, go reread. Indeed some do seem as though they only post to see their names...and to argue. ;&

 

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One poster, I believe it was Punchout, but who can keep everybody straight?, mentioned about how Ohio girls find they are not as ready for D1 as west coast girls because of the continual high level of competition they face.

I talked with the BGSU coach last winter. She is from the south, and coached college ball in Arkansas at her previous stop, if I remember correctly. She said it is possible for midwest girls to compete on a national level, but it takes coaches about 2 years in a college program to bring Ohio/midwest softball players up to the level that Calif. girls play at.
Once west coast girls get to college they are basically a finished product, the BGSU coach told me and a couple of other dads. She said a reason she took the BGSU job, is that she found the Ohio girls far more coachable, easier to work with, and with far less (almost none) diva or personality issues than the west coast girls, in her experience.

One other thing, she said the way to play like a big girl, is to play the big girls. So she is in the process of upgrading BGSU's schedule.

 

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I think the BGSU coach's approach is one that many here in Ohio can use, and in fact, are using. Like Klump says, we lose developmental time because of our climate. It's the cumulative affect of playing 100 to 200 games a year compared to our 50 to 100.

 

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The Bowling Green coach is right , but i am not so sure about the west coast kids not being coachable. I got to know a lot of them over the years, and for the most part they are great kids who were mostly recruited by the big time schools out west, but knew Ohio colleges offer full rides to them. Many times it is a financial decision. They are advanced when they get to college. I have seen a few who did not adjust very well to hitting instruction that was against every thing they were taught out west. For the most part, if it isn`t broken, don`t fix it. Our best Ohio kids are full of potential and they prove it once they get the training in college. However they are up against the west coast kids who have already received great training, are able to use their skills year round and the numbers of kids just like them out west are staggering

 

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I think Simpson and Sito are VERY good pitchers Are they in the same catagory as the Finches, and Ostermans?. I don`t think so(not many are) Personally I think both of them are playing in conferences below their talent level. The MAC plays good softball with its top teams. The horizon League is somewhat below the MAC. I think either kid could have played at least in the Big Ten. I am sure they have their reasons for attending the schools they did. Life is not all about softball, being happy and getting the education of your choice needs to be first. Some kids find both at very competitive sports schools, and others are more comfortable getting their education at smaller schools.
You are right about the athletes surrounding pitchers. A pitcher can only hide a teams weaknesses for so long. Both pitchers instantly gave their teams a better chance at being successful.I know Simpson has another really good pitcher to help her from the Columbus area.
Having a kid who pitched in the Big Ten, I know the difference between a very good pitcher and a great pitcher. My kid was very good in summer and high school as a player. She was not as good as the best pitchers in the Big Ten (All but one was from the west coast) She got hurt before getting to her potential as a pitcher (although she did shut down a few top ten teams)but hitting wise she caught up to the west coast kids as she moved to center field.
I have seen great hitters like Vanderink come to Ohio St, not really ready for college pitching. But she and other Ohio girls developed to be excellent hitters. Vanderink becoming an All American is case in point.
Katie Chain is one of the best pitchers to come out of Ohio. She set all the Ohio St pitching records. Those records have since been broken by, you guessed it, two west coast kids (Juarez and Reeder) Juarez should have been an All american and Reeder did become an All american.
I have no doubt if our Ohio kids had the same advantages as the west coast kids with the proper training, the great competition to play against constantly, and the weather to play in year round, they would be more ready come their freshman year in college.

Time out! When you start talking about Finch and Osterman they are ONE of a kind ATHLETES. Not just pitchers. Add Abbott to that sentence. Texas will probably never see another Osterman. I havent seen one and I have been here right at 15 years now. I have a young lady who is a student that may one day meet that potential but right now that is all it is. Potential. Ohio may one day produce a pitcher of that quality and if it happens that young lady will not have a problem finding a D-1 program to play with anywhere in the country. Talent will always rise to the top and be found. Regardless of location.

The kids in the south and west have a real advantage. Out west the coaches are in their 4th generation.Their players are now coaches. In the south its now about 3rd generation. Coaches and teaching/training methods do make a difference. So does the fact they can play year around and most of these kids play just one sport. Softball.

What you dont hear about are those who drop that are still excellent players but for personal reasons lost interest, burn out, social issues, financial hardships, other sports. All factor into the success and or failure of a softball player. For every 5 who enter a rec program there might be 1 who makes it to HS ball and then of those HS kids maybe 3 or 4 will get a college offer. Either JR college or D-1 - 3. Thats here in Texas. Whats that ratio in Ohio? How many girls play nothing BUT softball? Very few would be my guess. How many of them train year around for softball? Very few would be my guess.

You have to understand that competition drives these girls to new levels. Not only external but internal competition. If you dont have that competitive environment its hard to motivate a player to get to the level of those in other parts of the country. As for Ohio State. Their coach came from the west coast and still has west coast ties. She is going to do everything she can to bring west coast talent to Ohio. Because she knows the level of skill those players have due to full time commitment to the game.

To play this game at the highest level you have to have a commitment to the game. It requires complete focus. Not part time focus. Thats just the way it is in the south and west for those who are serious about the game.

 

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Time out! When you start talking about Finch and Osterman they are ONE of a kind ATHLETES. Not just pitchers. Add Abbott to that sentence. Texas will probably never see another Osterman. I havent seen one and I have been here right at 15 years now. I have a young lady who is a student that may one day meet that potential but right now that is all it is. Potential. Ohio may one day produce a pitcher of that quality and if it happens that young lady will not have a problem finding a D-1 program to play with anywhere in the country. Talent will always rise to the top and be found. Regardless of location.

The kids in the south and west have a real advantage. Out west the coaches are in their 4th generation.Their players are now coaches. In the south its now about 3rd generation. Coaches and teaching/training methods do make a difference. So does the fact they can play year around and most of these kids play just one sport. Softball.

What you dont hear about are those who drop that are still excellent players but for personal reasons lost interest, burn out, social issues, financial hardships, other sports. All factor into the success and or failure of a softball player. For every 5 who enter a rec program there might be 1 who makes it to HS ball and then of those HS kids maybe 3 or 4 will get a college offer. Either JR college or D-1 - 3. Thats here in Texas. Whats that ratio in Ohio? How many girls play nothing BUT softball? Very few would be my guess. How many of them train year around for softball? Very few would be my guess.

You have to understand that competition drives these girls to new levels. Not only external but internal competition. If you dont have that competitive environment its hard to motivate a player to get to the level of those in other parts of the country. As for Ohio State. Their coach came from the west coast and still has west coast ties. She is going to do everything she can to bring west coast talent to Ohio. Because she knows the level of skill those players have due to full time commitment to the game.

To play this game at the highest level you have to have a commitment to the game. It requires complete focus. Not part time focus. Thats just the way it is in the south and west for those who are serious about the game.

I agree with most of what you say. I can list All American pitchers from the west coast all day long if you want me to. I know of no All American college Division One pitchers from Ohio. Every year the west coast fills their rosters with pitchers at UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Fullerton, Northridge, Az, Az St.etc that are better than Ohio Pitchers.
As for only playing softball to become a great player, that is completely false. Go to UCLA`s roster and well over half played other sports, ranging from track, basketball, volleyball etc while in high school.
Nearly half of your Texas Longhorns also were multisport athletes.

 

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Time out! When you start talking about Finch and Osterman they are ONE of a kind ATHLETES. Not just pitchers. Add Abbott to that sentence.
I think we can add Hollowell, Fernandez,Mowatt and many others to a list of great west coast pitchers.

 

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Anyone know what the ratio of college D1 softball player from a particular state to the state population?

We did a whole study on this last fall .. we wanted to better understand where the girls are going to play by division, where they were coming from and how it relates to the population, weather, number of players, etc.. very interesting stuff...

We mentioned it to Mike Candrea at dinner when he was here back in November and it turned into an hour conversation, Jay had all the facts on the top of his head still.. Mike was so interested that he asked Jay send him the report/data to review... I will dig up the ratio's we came up with an post here.

 

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Here you go.....Here are the current rosters of the two most successful college softball programs ever. YOU tell me if you see ANY midwest kids on either roster

http://www.arizonawildcats.com/sports/w-softbl/mtt/ariz-w-softbl-mtt.html

They combine their best players and get UCLA, Arizona etc...We combine our best players and we have Kent St. , Bowling Green and Miami.

I asked Candrea this very question - recruiting mid-west vs west coast players ... it has nothing to do with there not being as talented players here as out west but several factors ..

1. There are more highly talented players out west - in terms of recruiting efficency - he can see more D1 caliber players in less time and for less effort out west ... recuriting trips are shorter when they fish in their backyard.

2. West coast competition is much stronger among players .. there are more elite players and the BEST players have to perform to get on the best teams and have the best opportunities.. here the 'elite' players stand out and well above most of the other girls around them - iron/sharpens/iron. The elite kids 'live' in the 'elite' fishbowl everyday, every practice - every tourney. They have an easier transition to Arizona 'level' softball where they are surrounded by the best there.

3. He usually does not over recruit a lot of freshman and keeps his roster tight - Mike said that his 2011 class is the largest he has ever brought in - I think he said the roster is over 20 players .. said it makes his job harder to manage that many girls - in the past he brought in less but had to have few 'misses' - there was no room for error.

Deb Hartwig told us that she thinks the mid-west player is a better all around player than the so-cal kid.. she said that they are getting so specialized out west that it is hurting many kids chances.. travel teams are looking for 'just' runners, situation players/hitter, etc ... She said if she was to get back into coaching she would probably look to the mid-west more for talent.

 

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Dang Doug, you are really bored if you are going back to 2009 threads to respond too...

 

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LOL .. I did not even notice.. I was searching for some stuff and landed in the middle of the thread - did not even look at the date... and yea, I was bored.. anyone else ready for spring and the season to start?

 

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tangy-mike, thanks for mentioning the topic/thread was from 2009 because I was ready to jump on the thread and leave. Thanks Doug for taking the blow for me.
Yes, we are ready for Spring- DD has asked me twice this winter if we can move to S California so she can play ball. It's tough this time of year.

 

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DD hasn't asked for a move yet, surprised though. The other day, just asked when college softball starts.

 

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You get what you play for