Top tier programs vs mid level.

[Outwork]

@ g3automotive. Which organization does your daughter play for? It's obvious that you have an ax to grind against the Outlaws. To be clear, Mine is with the Nightmare - so we have no affiliation with the Outlaws . It's a little annoying when people bash on orgs like the Outlaws or Lasers especially when it's apparent they have an agenda spurred usually by their daughter getting snubbed by that organization.

 

[G3automotive]

I have asked the simple question multiple times with no answer ???? still no answer ..... im not bashing anyone just asking what has the ohio outlaws done to get repeatedly mentioned as a top tier org. in ohio ?????

so I guess I will go and answer your questions ....

#1 .quote."While I'm sure your criterion for "top tier" is very sophisticated":
Answer .... yes it is ! its called WINNING

#2. My kid plays for the Lasers

#3. having 1 team in a org that plays at a high premier level does not make the org a top tier org .just fyi

#4. not bashing just tiered of all the koolaid drinkers on ofc .....

I could keep going but I think u get my point . feel free to answer my questions

 

[crystlemc]

The criteria that was initially used in this thread was college placement. Not necessarily "winning". Correct?

 

[MaddKennaMax]

The criteria that was initially used in this thread was college placement. Not necessarily "winning". Correct?

Exactly! In the older age groups I would say that while winning is nice, it takes a back seat to getting the girls recruited. That is usually the ultimate end game from 14u up.

 

[G3automotive]

The criteria that was initially used in this thread was college placement. Not necessarily "winning". Correct?

what ? WOW.... I think I just blacked out .....

 

[crystlemc]

Maybe when you wake up, you should go start at the beginning. Try to keep up. People were talking about top tier organizations for getting your kid to college.

 

[BulldawgsDirector]

To the original topic: to each their own! Let the players/ parents decide what is best for there kid based on their goals and move on! Top tier/ mid tier/ rec tier... there is a place for everyone.

To bash people that clearly have more knowledge of the recruiting process and most likely the game of softball (let alone online etiquette) is completely counter productive if you are trying to get good players. I'm sure the Waxahatchee Fighting Lama's are a contender, but the Beverly Bandits may be a better option for young Miss Bustos to be seen by 'Bama.

 

[G3automotive]

who is bashing ???? and I just want a simple answer to a very straight forward simple question !!!!! no one wants to step up and say what makes them a top tier org ... ? I say winning is what sets my bar ...

crystlemc says its all about college placement not winning that makes you a top tier org ? (I think)

so again for the 5th time can some one answer the question ..... its not a bash just state the facts !!! people keep throwing the name ohio outlaws out there on these treads about being a top org in ohio and I wanna know what makes them a top org ...? I asked on another tread an no one answered there either it went silent......


if some one asked what makes bandits or lasers a top tier org. the posts and the list wood go on for ever what they have done for kids an what they have won .....


bottom line the outlaws are a very young org that is working hard at moving up the food chain to be a top org and with teams an coaches they have picked up this fall they are for sure moving in the right direction ..... to lump them in the top tier now is alittle over board ...... next year or too this may be a different conversation .... hats off to them for working hard for kids to get better . yes its about the kids for sure....

 

[Really]

who is bashing ???? and I just want a simple answer to a very straight forward simple question !!!!! no one wants to step up and say what makes them a top tier org ... ? I say winning is what sets my bar ...

crystlemc says its all about college placement not winning that makes you a top tier org ? (I think)

so again for the 5th time can some one answer the question ..... its not a bash just state the facts !!! people keep throwing the name ohio outlaws out there on these treads about being a top org in ohio and I wanna know what makes them a top org ...? I asked on another tread an no one answered there either it went silent......


if some one asked what makes bandits or lasers a top tier org. the posts and the list wood go on for ever what they have done for kids an what they have won .....


bottom line the outlaws are a very young org that is working hard at moving up the food chain to be a top org and with teams an coaches they have picked up this fall they are for sure moving in the right direction ..... to lump them in the top tier now is alittle over board ...... next year or too this may be a different conversation .... hats off to them for working hard for kids to get better . yes its about the kids for sure....

Your joking right. You can't even put these two organizations in the same sentence.

 

[G3automotive]

but you have no problem putting the outlaws and the lasers in the same sentence ...?

 

[brownsfan]

Ok, I've had enough of this. my dd's former pitching coach who was well-respected in NE Ohio before getting a promotion to Chicago. She was on the Laser org. She told us when we were at 11U, to go to Stingrays, Lasers,Classics, and Buckeye Heat. At the time, the Outlaws were still coming of age. That was four years ago.

Now, if I was relocating from a another state to Ohio, and my dd was 13U-I'd use this forum as a place to start:

http://www.goldfastpitch.com/verbals/verbals-by-travel-team/

This has been sorted by travel team. That would be my starting point.

 

[travelmom1127]

This is just my opinion... when I think of top tier organization I think of Beverly Bandits, Indiana Magic Gold, Alabama Thunderbolts and ect... With that being said I do agree the Lasers are a wonderful organization with a few top tier teams but top tier is when you are the best of the best top to bottom. With every age group just totally dominating!! College prep orgaizations focus on getting your child to the school of there dreams whether it be D1-D3.

 

[crystlemc]

I'm not sure why you are so riled up about the Outlaws. Yes, it is a newer organization. Yes, they have some proving to do. However, for the girls that want to play college ball, the Outlaws are continually working for those girls, furthering college contacts, providing info, and trying to put them in the best showcases on the best fields to be seen by the college coaches best fit the girls and their goals. Ultimately, it is all about the girls. And on that front, I think the Outlaws are doing a great job. Am I saying the Outlaws are the only game in town, or even the best game? No. I am saying they are providing a very valuable resource that many outstanding players choose to take advantage of. I see no Outlaw affiliated people bashing the Lasers or anyone else. The Lasers are a top notch organization. Have been for many years. They are a good fit for many great players. The Stingrays are a great fit for many great players. Why the need for biased comparison?

And yes, my daughter is an Outlaw.

 

[crystlemc]

Oops. Double post.

 

[MaddKennaMax]

I'm not sure why you are so riled up about the Outlaws. Yes, it is a newer organization. Yes, they have some proving to do. However, for the girls that want to play college ball, the Outlaws are continually working for those girls, furthering college contacts, providing info, and trying to put them in the best showcases on the best fields to be seen by the college coaches best fit the girls and their goals. Ultimately, it is all about the girls. And on that front, I think the Outlaws are doing a great job. Am I saying the Outlaws are the only game in town, or even the best game? No. I am saying they are providing a very valuable resource that many outstanding players choose to take advantage of. I see no Outlaw affiliated people bashing the Lasers or anyone else. The Lasers are a top notch organization. Have been for many years. They are a good fit for many great players. The Stingrays are a great fit for many great players. Why the need for biased comparison?

And yes, my daughter is an Outlaw.

Well said Crystal. My oldest daughter is an Outlaw as well and my youngest plays for the Buckeye Heat. We couldn't be happier. There are several good orgs out there. It is all about finding the best fit for your daughter.

 

[tjsmize3]

... I just want a simple answer to a very straight forward simple question !!!!! no one wants to step up and say what makes them a top tier org ... ? I say winning is what sets my bar ...

people keep throwing the name ohio outlaws out there on these treads about being a top org in ohio and I wanna know what makes them a top org ...? I asked on another tread an no one answered there either it went silent......

....

The reason you are NOT getting a response is because know one knows what you want. Are you really asking for someone to come on here and post the Outlaws W-L record for each team in the organization game by game, as well as the million other factors that put the W-Ls into perspective (i.e strength of schedule, who was on the DL, who didn't play so others could be seen...). If your interested in the W-Ls I believe you can go onto the organization's website and see for yourself, but how do you compare what one team does at an OH tournament when the Outlaws were playing at Boulder for example??? No one wants to get on here and have that petty tacky discussion but you! The answer to your question is that some people are looking at the Outlaws organization and seeing that the strength of schedule is second to none in OH, that they tend to perform respectably in the strong tournaments that they enter, and that the talent on these teams is "top tier" based strictly on the amount of D1/D2 money being given to them and who it's coming from. In many people's eyes that gets them in the discussion. Interestingly, if you go to the US Club Rankings, you will find they us a similar criteria. As a parent with 2 daughters who have played (or are playing) softball in OH, I am proud of the Laser's accomplishments. I think that organization is filled with great talent, great softball parents and great coaching. I could care less to get dragged into a debate about who's dog is bigger between these two organizations. Here's the stat I want to know... if you walk around at games acting there the way you do on here, it would be interesting to see how many great Laser kids lost scholarships due to your inability to represent your organization with class?! A lot of schools get turned off to that in a hurry!

 

[vikingsix]

but you have no problem putting the outlaws and the lasers in the same sentence ...?

I am not affiliate with any organization any more. One of my daughter's played with the Lasers Aqua back in the day before I left Ohio (and moved to Illinois)

But to me, most of the nonsense (or entertainment) on this board seems to be a: Lasers vs. (teams outside of Ohio) OR Lasers vs. (anyone inside of Ohio who tries to "move up the ranks" as you put it) OR whatever parent is pissed that their kid isn't part of the above!

BUT- At the end of the day, its supposed to be about the girls right? does it matter if their jersey says "LASERS" or "BANDITS" or "OUTLAWS"?? or, are you THAT opposed to anyone else possibly being viewed as "entering" into the upper echilon so you cannot dare put OUTLAWS in that group now right? Let me ask you -does this (the Outlaws being put in the same group as the Lasers) detract from the fact that your daughter is on the Lasers? does that detract from her prestige?

There are other dynamics at play too- and this is what i see:
Some parents/coaches (for reasons i don't understand) don't like when the "good'" players leave "Ohio" and play for good organizations outside of Ohio such as the Beverly Bandits (Demarini or Premier); Chill (although i'm not sure Gerry even has any Ohio kids on his roster anymore- he prefers not to grow); Indiana Magic Gold; Indi Dreams, Indi Prospects, Louisville Lady Sluggers, Birmingham Thunderboltz, NJ Intensity, NJ Cheetahs etc. so they bash these teams because either (a) they think Ohio Lasers is the end all and no need to go outside of Ohio and/or (b) there kid can't make a team like that so well, you know.

Now, recently PGF has spread in the Midwest. With PGF comes a network of State Directors that meet in California during nationals and "talk" and set agendas, agree to send their "top teams" to each others showcases to ensure good talent at these showcases etc. etc. and yes, Ohio's State Director is Warren and he runs that Outlaws. to me, it seems that some people don't like this "band of brothers" for whatever reason. (i'm not going to debate softball politics, asa/pgf right now) They (Outlaws) have affiliated themselves with some of the best softball minds out there and in turn, put themeselves in a position to get their gold/premier/elite players recruited...thats a good thing right?

Others seem to take issue that the organization isn't 100% gold- that they offer both. I can't speak for the Outlaws but I do know the Outlaws has "gold/premier/elite" teams that compete in top showcases and they also have other teams that are geared towards D2/D3.

TO THIS i'd say, they are not the only organization that does this- a good example would be New Jersey Intensity. The KOD teams are the top teams (gold), and yes he has a couple other teams that are good too (equivalent to premier/elite), but and yes he has others that are not at that level. Not sure that is a bad thing either?

I'd ALSO ADD- the Lasers motto back in the day used to be 'age group' and you had one at each age group maybe 2 at most. 1993,1994,1995 (yeah i'm taking us way back)

Well, the Lasers went through a period where they added more teams (we all remember the fun on here during the OLD Lasers red days right?) and i'm sure that bothered people that they expanded and some thought well if you call yourself "elite" you can't expand so teams were axed and some of you might recall that the 1998 Lasers Green was axed a few years ago and this year the 1999 Lasers Silver was axed

You know whoelse has "multiple" teams and not all are premier? Alabama Thunderboltz AND the EC Bullets- to each their own right?

 

[Blue Ice]

Bottom line. Top- tier or Mid-level travel team, if your DD can handle the academics...there is a college team out there for your daughter (unless she is really bad).

DD's never played with anyone traveling to west of Mississippi and they received plenty of academic scholarship. LOL.

 

[G3automotive]

I'm not sure why you are so riled up about the Outlaws. Yes, it is a newer organization. Yes, they have some proving to do. However, for the girls that want to play college ball, the Outlaws are continually working for those girls, furthering college contacts, providing info, and trying to put them in the best showcases on the best fields to be seen by the college coaches best fit the girls and their goals. Ultimately, it is all about the girls. And on that front, I think the Outlaws are doing a great job. Am I saying the Outlaws are the only game in town, or even the best game? No. I am saying they are providing a very valuable resource that many outstanding players choose to take advantage of. I see no Outlaw affiliated people bashing the Lasers or anyone else. The Lasers are a top notch organization. Have been for many years. They are a good fit for many great players. The Stingrays are a great fit for many great players. Why the need for biased comparison?

And yes, my daughter is an Outlaw.

I can agree with this post .....

 

[Strohbro]

FYI vikingsix, Lasers Silver was not axed.