Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Transition to 43 foot pitching rubber

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All the talk about moving the 14U rubber back to 43 feet and the "struggle" many report (and I expect) our pitchers to have making the transition lead me to do some rudimentary physics calculations to see what we are actually dealing with.

I wanted to know how much more the ball is going to drop in that last three feet and what the pitcher is going to have to do to compensate.

The pitcher in this example averages 52mph with her fastball (I am using a fastball so I did not have to adjust for "drop or curve spin"). She is 12U so pitches from a 40 foot rubber (39 feet to the front of the plate). She lets go of the ball approximately 3 feet in front of the rubber and usually 24" above the ground.

So... the ball has to travel 36 feet to get to the front of the plate. Twenty-four inches above the ground at the plate is a strike for most batters so I used that for the pitch location.

Moving her back 3 feet to 43 feet (39 feet of ball travel), how far above the ground would the pitch be? 20.1 inches according to physics; almost four inches lower! That's more than I actually expected. How does she adjust this? She will have to release the ball a little later to create a greater "up angle". The initial "up angle" of the ball at release was 5.75 degrees from the 40 foot rubber. To get the pitch from the 43 foot rubber to cross in the same place, the "up angle" will have to be 6.23 degrees. That's less than half a degree, which does not seem like a huge "physical" change.

How much do pitchers change this angle during a regular at bat? Assume an average strike zone to be 18" to 42" off the ground. To hit the top of the zone from 40 feet with this pitch, the up-angle has to be 7.45 degrees. To hit the bottom of the zone it would have to be 3.04 degrees. A range of 4.41 degrees of initial up-angle being adjusted by the pitcher. The move back is saying you have to adjust only 0.48 degrees.

My conclusion: Physics suggests that the pitcher actually has to do very little differently after moving back 3 feet. AND, the changes that are needed are already being performed, on a MUCH larger scale, in their pitching today. As with most things with teenagers, I'm guessing the "struggle" is primarily between the ears.

 

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Excellent post. This is something that I have agreed with for sometime. Daughter never struggled because of the distance, but the thought of the distance. If I told her it was 35 ft and it was 40 she didn't know? and did fine, on the other hand if she knew it was 40 she always over compensated and nothing found it's way to the plate. She is 12 now and has only been pitching for a few yrs but still is a part of her practice routine.

 

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An ohh, for the umpires out there: This example pitch from a 43 foot rubber will drop another 4.5 inches by the time it reaches the catcher's glove. (and that's WITHOUT drop spin).
And for the hitters: you get a whole 39ms more time. (.039 seconds)

 

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Don't forget the average speed will be a little slower from 43' because the ball will decelerate a little more over the longer distance.

The "struggle" is because the pitchers have developed muscle memory to hit a few specific spots consistently. Good pitchers do not make a lot of "adjustments" on the fly - they mainly execute what they've practiced. It takes a fair amount of practice to develop the proper muscle memory from 43'.

The pitchers on our team spent 8-9 months (Sept-May) only throwing from 43' and did not have a problem switching back and forth after that - it only took a few warm-up pitches to reconnect with the proper muscle memory.

 

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Another difference is the available degrees available to throw a strike. I don't have my math hat on but using your setup you have X degrees from the point of release to be a strike. Move back any distance and the available degrees are reduced.

 

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my DD had no problem with adjusting from 40-43' never even bothered her in the least.

 

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Don't forget the average speed will be a little slower from 43' because the ball will decelerate a little more over the longer distance.

Assuming the pitch started at 52mph, when it crosses the plate (from the 43' rubber), it will be going 51.76mph.

 

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Another difference is the available degrees available to throw a strike. I don't have my math hat on but using your setup you have X degrees from the point of release to be a strike. Move back any distance and the available degrees are reduced.

True. To hit the 18" to 42" range from 40' the available degrees for this 52mph pitch is between 3.04 and 7.45 (range of 4.41) but from 43' the available degrees are 5.49 through 8.43 (range of 2.94; a 66% reduction). Great point!

 

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A cousin of that is the angle to hit the upper and lower bounds of the strike zone being reduced.

It gets difficult when you move all the way back to the center field fence and pitch from there. Not much margin for error.

 

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My head hurts...

 

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IMO 14u and older should not be affected at all.

 

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Personally would like to see 12U go to 43'ft, but stay with the 11" ball, so the only adjustment when coming to 14U is the ball size. These little hands need time to grow and a lot still need to grow during 14u, so ok with the 11" ball being used there too. Would truly help kids work on spins and stuff at the younger ages and keep these $300 bats under control to decrease injuries and keep pitching speeds consistent. JMO

 

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too many decimals and variations! lol I think many girls already pitch from further distances when training IE: practicing at 40' for the 10u's that will be pitching from 35' in games - practicing at 43' for 12u's pitching from 40' in games and 45' for 14u and up etc... plus long toss is part of many pitchers work outs. Question, does a 3rd baseman or shortstop have any problems throwing a ball to 1st base from 3' difference on one play to the next? No they dont - our brain and body will make the adjustment without even thinking about it. They will be fine at 43' but get ready for more hitting and make sure your D is ready to go!

 

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Was just talking to a friend about this earlier today. I think, for the vast majority, the only obstacle would be purely mental. As Dan said, many pitchers we know personally, use long toss as a tool anyway, so that should really aid in the adjustment. Also, there have been a couple times where TD's have forgotten to move the rubber and she has pitched from that distance and done just fine. She just has to make sure her movement is working.

 

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Don't forget the average speed will be a little slower from 43' because the ball will decelerate a little more over the longer distance.

The "struggle" is because the pitchers have developed muscle memory to hit a few specific spots consistently. Good pitchers do not make a lot of "adjustments" on the fly - they mainly execute what they've practiced. It takes a fair amount of practice to develop the proper muscle memory from 43'.

The pitchers on our team spent 8-9 months (Sept-May) only throwing from 43' and did not have a problem switching back and forth after that - it only took a few warm-up pitches to reconnect with the proper muscle memory.

Somewhat disagree with your comment about adjustments. Just as hitters do, pitchers are making fractional adjustments every pitch. By college, a pitcher has thrown every useable pitch in her arsenal many thousands of times. But as the math suggests, a fraction of a degree difference in the release point makes a few inches difference at the plate - possibly the difference between a looked-at strike or a ball. There are essentially eight points pitchers are initially taught to visualize and throw a fastball to. As pitchers progress, spins cause those "visualization points" to change significantly depending on spin, pitch speed, etc. Notice I said "visualize" and not "aim". A good pitching coach should know the difference.

A successful pitcher must learn to make adjustments - or they will fail. By 14u, pitchers should be incorporating spin and movement into nearly every pitch they throw. Learning to slightly adjust release point and power line is critical. Once they start throwing movement pitches, they will need that skill the rest of their pitching career. Adding 3' to the distance is something every pitcher goes through. Look at it as a challenge - I'm betting that after one season at 43' they will wonder what the big deal was.

 

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Assuming the pitch started at 52mph, when it crosses the plate (from the 43' rubber), it will be going 51.76mph.

Are you saying a pitch released at 52 MPH only decelerates .24mph on its way to the plate? A pitch decelerates multiple miles-per-hour from release to the plate whether it is from 40' or 43'. I would accept a .24mph difference between the average speeds over the 2 distances.

 

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many instructors teach their students to work at 43' or more to build strength so this "might" be lesser of an issue for some. I like the unification across the board for the 14u's being at the same distance. Yes you have those at 13u that are lost in the midst and yes it's not perfect for all. Just like when some grow faster than others and have to deal with all the issues with that. At 10u we had a pitcher that had trouble gripping the 11" ball due to large hands and when moved up to 12U life was much better for her so it happens on both ends of the spectrum. So, not perfect but at least consistant for the travel sanctioning where the girls play 70-100 games. And for the 20-30 games in school ball jammed into 6-8 weeks... less of a factor when you consider it all.

 

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True. To hit the 18" to 42" range from 40' the available degrees for this 52mph pitch is between 3.04 and 7.45 (range of 4.41) but from 43' the available degrees are 5.49 through 8.43 (range of 2.94; a 66% reduction). Great point!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

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OMG - 8 am. first cup of java, trying to read thru this thread having trouble.... seems like i am in school, algerbra... bad memories.... OH my head is starting to hurt! gotta go to ESPN arcade and play some return man!!!

 

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My conclusion: Physics suggests that the pitcher actually has to do very little differently after moving back 3 feet. AND, the changes that are needed are already being performed, on a MUCH larger scale, in their pitching today. As with most things with teenagers, I'm guessing the "struggle" is primarily between the ears.[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed reading your entire post and 100% agree with your conclusion. With your permission, I'd like to copy this and post it on my board in the pitching studio giving you full credit of course. Great bunch of work!!!