travel ball vs school ball

[default]

I was recently speaking to my daughter's pitching coach,who told me he had hired a pitcher from OSU"S program to help him.This player is from California and she told him that the elite softball players ?in Califonia ,don't play high school ball only travel ball.The main reason was there are no rules governing practices etc.. and they can play ?and practice year round . I am sure weather is a factor ?too., but it ?seems to makes sense. What are your thoughts? Has anyone else heard of this?

 

[default]

I think this is a very selfish approach. You have only 4 years, in what we all hope will be a long life for these student athletes, to be in high school. To choose to not play with your classmates and represent your school is very selfish and self centered. Will you get better as a player, who knows (& some on here might suggest you will decline based on coaching, competition, etc.). Will you get better as a person? Yes. Could you, if directed accordingly, become a better person, leader, friend? Most definitely! What a more powerful life's lesson could be taught to a student athlete (& a tool that they could carry on for the rest of their life) then that of leadership, coaching, teaching, etc. their fellow teammates (& also classmates). At the end of the day (or in this case their high school career), wouldn't it be wonderful if these outstanding players walked out of high school having the experience and the skills of being a leader, that they learned through playing high school softball, and take that with them for the rest of the lives.

Obviously, I could go on and on but we all know the differences between high school and travel softball. They both have a good deal to offer to the student athlete, grant it, it might not necessarily be all centered around softball. Allow for the possiblity that the contribution might be of a much greater cause - personal development - something that could effect these young ladies for their entire life and not just the next "x" amount of years.

Allow for the possibilities ... and seize the opportunity. Don't be selfish and blow off the only 4 years of high school you will ever experience in your entire life!

 

[default]

Oh boy, here we go. The rules that the OHSAA places on practices merely keep girls from practicing with their travel teams in March through mid-May or so. A girl can still receive individual instruction. So I don't think that's enough reason to not play high school ball.

The OHSAA rules also keep h.s. coaches from coaching their own players from August through March, so myself and all other high school coaches who enjoy the game are busy now coaching everyone except our own players.

 

[default]

our dd is home schooled. our school district does not allow home schooled kids play for their teams no matter how good that they are. no this isnt fair to our dd but that is how life is. if you want to keep them away from a district that has the police called to the schools every other day you get penalized for it. she'll play a lot more in travel ball and not be exposed to the drugs and violence.

 

[default]

I believe college softball could not exist without serious interest in high school softball around the country

 

[default]

I believe the player from OSU was in the vast minority, even in Southern California
From past experience with 18Gold teams in Southern Californian, every teammate of my daughter's on the Panthers Gold and Flash D Gold teams played on their high school team, including current Arizona/Team USA standout Caitlin Lowe, who played on national high school powerhouse Foothill High in Santa Ana
The CIF rule that is really stupid is the one that prevents a player from playing on a summer team that is coached by her high school coach.

 

[default]

Have looked at a number of college websites, and rosters over the last couple of years. Most of the players that I see there list High School softball accomplishments. I will admit to not scanning closely the top 10-15 programs in the country, but willing to bet it doesn't really change much. For all the credit we give to travel ball teams, the accomplishments of high school teams is more likely to be remembered. 3 years from now how many will remember the success of the C2N Ice team, or even be able to name 5 players from the team. Go to a high school reunion 20 years after a team wins a state title in any sport, and it will still come up in the evenings conversation, along with many fond memories even by people not on the team.

 

[default]

DogsDad,

You are right, all college sports list the High School accomplishments. The reason is that this practice was started in the early 1900s - well before travel ball was on the scene. This practice became "tradition" and traditon is not easily changed.

It is true that the media guides list the players High School but the vast majority were selected based on scouting reports from travel ball.

 

[default]

johnies
guess I wasn't that clear. I realize a majority of the recruiting comes from travel ball. What I was trying to point out, is that most of the college rosters that I have looked at are filled with players that play both high school and travel ball. I see very few examples of kids NOT playing on their high school team. The other point I was trying to make is this. I have seen your posts so I know you coach a 14U team. In 3-4 years if those girls are good enough you could win ASA Gold and within a short period of time that accomplishment would be forgotten by all but a handful of people. If your BW team were to win the OHSAA championship that accomplishment will likely be remembered fondly for years to come. It may only be BW fans that remember, but it will also be more then just the softball part of the community that will remember. You will have students and others from the community that travel to Ashland to watch the high school team, that wouldn't even drive to the high school to watch a league game.
Just for laughs, I will throw a couple of things out here about travel ball see how many you remember.
1) This week on spysoftball.com Hesse wrote that the founders of the Gordon Panthers were calling it quits. Gordon Panthers have to be considered over the long run one of the top 10 programs in the country. How many former players have you heard of that came from that program? Without looking can you name any that have come to Ohio to play college ball? When I read the story, I knew of 2-3 former players that had played at OSU, had no idea how many of the Olympians came through that program.
2) Here's one a little closer to home. Katie Chain has to be one of the more recognizable names in softball here in Ohio. What high school did she play for vs. what travel team/s did she play for.
Bottom line I hear rumors about top level players not playing high school ball and concentrating on their travel teams. I am sure it happens, but I don't see the evidence on the college rosters. I would be very careful about missing out on the High School experience (both good and bad) to concentrate on travel ball chasing that sometimes elusive scholarship.

 

[default]

You mean the Lasers, Maddogs, Ohio Mustangs, etc., haven't been around since the early 1900s? I know John Robarge has been around since at least 1895.

As we've discussed many times in the past, travel and high school ball each have their own purposes and each are great for their own purpose.

I found a short brochure in my school mailbox recently from the OHSAA. Of course it was typically condescending from the OHSAA, but it's worth reading, as it serves as a reminder of the purpose of interscholastic athletics. If I can find it, I'll post some quotes from it. The gist of it is that high school athletics are not to prepare athletes for college ball and not to ensure that kids get good or consistent instruction, but that kids simply get to learn certain values like teammwork, integrity, etc., while getting to represent their school in a sport. It discourages traveling beyond a school's immediate area for games (I'm still not cancelling our Florida trip), but I think this is in response to the Akron SVSM basketball tour.
I think it also discusses how the games shouldn't be about money, or something like that. Whatever it said, I remember wondering to myself whether the OHSAA is familiar with its own regional and state tournaments.

Anyway, there is certainly nothing wrong with that approach. But with that approach, the OHSAA must realize that kids who are serious about a sport will need to find in another place the things that high school teams won't be able to provide, such as year-round coaching, high quality competition and college recruiting help. As a result, the kids who are very serious about a sport will consider their travel ball teams their main teams and their individual instruction coaches their main source for instruction. The OHSAA and high school coaches (such as myself) can't be heard to complain when they're openly saying they don't want these responsibilities. I know many h.s. coaches complain because some girls resist their instruction on certain things, but when the girl is able to receive instruction year-round from someone else of the girl's choosing, and only March to May from the high school coach, we have made our own bed (or the OHSAA has made it for us).

 

[default]

Very well put (as usual) Joe!!
High School ball is for the mommies -- and newspaper clippings
Travel ball is for the real players and college scouts
BTW, on remembering Chain, I live in North Canton and the kids I have from Stark County on my 12U travel team don't know who in the heck she is (except for the catcher that lives next door to her family!!) -- I'll even bet that the majority of the high school team at North Canton Hoover isn't in tune with anything from the past, including the two OHSAA-sanctioned state title-winning teams!!!

 

[default]

Many sports organizaitons are suggesting that their elite players should decline playing for their school team in order to continue playing with their select team. ? The reasons are typically tied to college recruiting and players getting more of an opportunity at college scholarships. ? It is my opinion that these elite players get a great opportunity to lead their school team and bring the level of their school team to a higher level. ? Players rostered on the elite teams won't miss a chance to play in college because they played a couple of months on a school team and many travel (select) ball players won't get a college scholarship even if they skip the high school experince. ? My dd plays select softball but I am under no illusion that she is going to get a full ride to a softball powerhouse college or anywhere else for that matter. ? I do know however that competing with older girls for a position and being put into situations that are outside of her normal position on her travel team have helped her game and helped her to develope skills that will help her if she moves on to play
softball after high school or not.

 

[default]

Ladies should be plaing both travel and HS ball. The argument that college coaches do not scout HS ball is urban legend. While they recruit heavily during travel ball season because they are not playing themselves, good players are seen and known for their HS and travel seasons.

To promote one over the other for personal reasons is short-sighted and does not benefit the athlete.

 

[default]

Certainly I believe girls should play both. But other than a couple of fairly local Div. III coaches, I don't think I've seen any college coaches at a high school game, other than at State. I'm sure some Div. I and II coaches have gone to high school games, but it can't be seriously argued that travel ball isn't the place where kids are going to be seen.

 

[default]

I can understand the reasoning in California because of the weather. Of course a travel team that can play/practice year round together will be better than a team that splits after summer, only to return for a few fall ball games and scarce winter practices. If I lived in California and played on an A-List team, and they requested I not play school ball...I would focus on my schoolwork and refrain from my highschool team. But thats just me. Of course since I live here in Ohio, I play school ball every year.

 

[default]

Oldie softball player here who played 4 years for a D1 school and I'm still close with my college coach.....This very subject came up in a lunch not to long ago.

Summer travel ball is where college coaches get to see more players for less work. To travel to a h.s. game and watch 1 maybe 2 players is tough. Especially since the h.s. season conflicts with the spring college season. Whereas traveling to a high caliber tournament over the summer allows a coach to watch perhaps a dozen potential players.

To take it a step further....coaches go to these tournaments usually with perspective players already in mind. How do they know who to watch? Word of mouth, watching h.s. state ranking stats and who the hot players are on the top teams, and informational packets sent in to the coach. This packet always includes high school stats first followed by the summer travel team information.

A little off the subject. But what I'm trying to state is playing h.s. and summer ball are both important. If I were a college coach and a player was brought to my attention and she didn't play h.s. I'd wonder why and assume there is a story there.

 

[default]

ohihoosier i have a questoin for you. what about the girls who are home schooled? without travel ball they don't have a place to play or develope. i know that they are alowed to tryout for their schools but their districts don't seem to want them if they are not enrolled in their classes. how can they have their minds changed on this issue? thanks for your thoughts.

 

[default]

Tomuch -I feel your pain.

 

[default]

Guess I will weigh in on this one, some may recall the fun we had with this topic in the spring, for the record there are a huge majority of people on this site that never post publicly, but at that time the e-mail and responses I received to the thread ran about 12-1 in favor of trying to start an alternative to HS ball in the spring.

The reality is a player could play 25-30 games or more from april to the middle of may and practice a great deal more in a spring travel season, there are quality tournaments in Georgia and with some great teams from GA/AL/TN/FL during this time, the reality is that either their HS season is during the Fall or their HS Governing body allows players to play outside their HS team during the season. Face it you are talking about 5 weekends, with the rest of the time dedicated to practicing and perhaps playing other teams from the area that choose this route.

Not declaring what anyone should do just stating it is workable, and a viable alternative to another season playing for your HS team.

And just to clear up some info that was posted,regarding the players currently playing in college,in past years Calif HS allowed contact and interaction with your travel team it has only been in the last 2 years this has changed, as such this situation in Calif is in the process of shaking itself out, like in many things the past has no bearing on the present, any research into players currently playing in college and personal testimony while interesting is immaterial this is a situation that has changed and appears to be changing fairly rapidly.

Having said all this before I will end with I think if a PLAYER, NOT Mom or more likely Dad (I offer that because how many dads relish the idea of the press and the local noteriety their daughter gets when she routinely dominates the majority of rec ball players she plays against in HS, Think about it and be honest at least with yourself), continuing if a player wants to play HS ball, she should play if she doesn't then she should have an alternative, believe me I have talked to so many PLAYERS!! that are sick and tired of the attitudes they deal with and many have told me it seems they are coaching the team in some cases.

Well I guess I have stirred the pot enough, remember folks, adults, I said ADULTS, can agree to disagree about most anything, politics, religion, and softball. I respect the HS coaches and those that feel strongly about it, and I do understand your feelings, but I also hear and talk to players coaches and my friends from California and there is a change taking place, very definitely, and sticking our heads in the sand will not do a bit of good, at one point in the spring Joe A. offered his opinion that if HS softball doesn't want to lose these players they need to offer a better product than is currently offered.

nuff said by me for now!

 

[default]

cincystorm
You may very well have a point about what is happening elsewhere, and could easily come to Ohio. Certainly there are frustrated players, parents and coaches that would love an alternative to the present situation. I would like to pose another question here. What would happens to the sport if high school sports are weakened by players leaving, or worse yet collapse as schools continue to struggle with budgets etc? Will the rec programs follow, as parents look and say there is no high school program, I will find something else for my child to do? Ultimately all of our travel teams rely on rec players moving on to make up our teams (some directly, others by leaving other travel programs).