ump appeal

[coachmsd]

It was a 1 run game and i had a girl running to third, she over ran the base and then got back on the base, the girl tagged her and the ump called her out. I asked the ump if I could appeal the call, the ump said no she was out. Has anyone ever heard of an appeal being denied?

 

[BretMan2]

First a technical point. This is not an "appeal" play, not by the rule book definition of the term. An appeal play is a play where no decision can be made until requested by a coach or player. For instance, a runner missing a base or leaving too soon on a caught fly ball are appeal plays. What you're doing here is asking an umpire, who has already ruled on the play, to check with his partner to see if there was anything he missed.

Umpires are under no obligation to check with their partner for help just because a coach asks them to. If they were in position, saw the play, and are sure of what they saw, then all you have here is a simple judgment call that was this umpire's responsibility to make- and he made it.

Why did you want him to get with his partner? Did you think that there was something out of the ordinary that the umpire missed? Was he out of position? Was his view blocked? Was it a swipe tag? Was the ball dropped on the tag? Or...did you just not agree with the call and wanted to fish for a second opinion?

Umpires may go to their partner for help, but it should be reserved for plays where something was out of the ordinary, not on a routine judgment call. If every umpire had to check with his partner on every close play where somebody didn't like the outcome, it would make for a looong game!

 

[coachmsd]

his view was blocked

 

[BretMan2]

Okay, then.

If I'm the umpire and I know that my view was blocked, and I know that this caused me to not see the tag, then I will check with my partner.

How do you know that his view was blocked? It's kind of hard to know what another person is seeing from a different position on the field and from a different angle than you're seeing it.

Of course, I can't comment on what anybody else saw, or what somebody else thinks somebody else saw. I can give you the basic protocol of how umpires can handle this. Again, they're under no obligation to check just because somebody asks, but if they know that they missed something, they should ask.

 

[number5]

To play off this topic, a play at first. The ump at first calls the girl out. The coach from the other team asked to question the call with the ump at first. Blue holds his ground and says runner is out at first. Just a routine play. Blue behind the plate then walks out to talk to his partner, blue behind the plate over rules his partner. Can blue behind the plate take it upon himself to make the call if he was not asked to intervene? Just to clarify. Blue said she dropped the ball. First baseman is right handed so all he could see was the back of her glove while the first base ump saw the ball. First baseman dug the ball out of the dirt.

 

[Comp]

No umpire ever has the authority to overrule the call of another umpire. The call always belongs to the umpire who made the initial call. As Bretman has already stated, the umpire can be asked to go to his partner for assistance if the coach thinks they may have missed something, but there is no requirement which forces an umpire to do so. An umpire should also not "volunteer" information to their partner unless requested by the partner.

In your situation above, the plate umpire did not have the authority to overrule the call and should not have involved themselves in the call unless the umpire who made the call asked for assistance. And even then the call still belongs to the umpire who made the call and it is theirs to either keep or change based on the additional information they may have gotten from their partner.

 

[ech92]

I understand that there proper ways to ump a game and umps don't want to step on each other toes and so on . Here is what bugs me , isn't the goal of every ump to ultimately get the call right ? Is it more important for the ump to not look bad than to be corrected by his partner . I will never understand how one ump with a better view can not just say that he seen something different and just get the call right . Why also should we even have to appeal a play , I mean if the umps saw a girl miss a base or leave early why can't he just call her out once she reaches the dug out or the play comes to a stop ? This drives me nuts ! Is this just me ?

 

[TR_Out]

I have found that we (coaches) can do a lot to help ourselves in these situations. Last weekend, runner on 1st, line-drive hit to 2nd-baseman and is caught. 2nd throws immediately to 1st, runner dives back to bag. Ball is there WAY before runner. Field Umpire calls, "SAFE". I call time, am awarded it, and trot out to the field umpire and said, "Sir, would you mind terribly asking your partner if maybe he saw that one differently?" Umpire says, "Coach, you ask me just about anything that nicely and I am likely to oblige." Runner was "Out on the Appeal" to use his words. (Sorry Bretman, not my words. LOL) It's a "more flies with honey" kinda thing.

 

[Comp]

I understand that there proper ways to ump a game and umps don't want to step on each other toes and so on . Here is what bugs me , isn't the goal of every ump to ultimately get the call right ? Is it more important for the ump to not look bad than to be corrected by his partner . I will never understand how one ump with a better view can not just say that he seen something different and just get the call right . Why also should we even have to appeal a play , I mean if the umps saw a girl miss a base or leave early why can't he just call her out once she reaches the dug out or the play comes to a stop ? This drives me nuts ! Is this just me ?

So, you have a base umpire that is absolutely sure he saw control of the ball and and out on the batter/runner at 1st. But, you have a plate umpire that is equally sure he saw F3 bobble the ball. Whos call do you go with? Flip a coin? And, what do you do when the overruling umpire is actually wrong in their application of the rules? (Have actually seen this happen. Original call was correct, plate umpire stepped in and overruled with a missapplication of the rule. And by the way he no longer umpires for that association anymore.)

If an umpire thinks he has missed a piece of the play they should ask for help from their partner, or if a coach asks about something and the calling umpire has a doubt they should go to their partner. But, I cant tell you how many times I have had a coach ask me to go for help because they didnt like the call, or "I think your partner had a different angle." I dont need to go ask my partner if he had a different angle, I already know he did. If the coach has a specific question about a call and I may have missed something I am more than happy to go ask my partner. But, Im not going to go ask him if he had a different view every time a coach comes out fishing.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

FWIW, some umpires will subtly signal their partner whether they agree with his call or may have seen something differently. IOW, an umpire may have already checked with their partner while you're making your request.