Hitting and Hitters Discussion Up in the box or back in the box

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Hitters are unique in the details of what they do and what makes them succesful . The biggest component of that is if they believe in their approach and what they are doing but that is on an individual basis.
I believe if you are talking a general rule that up in the box does not hold any advantage and is actually a disadvantage for the reasons Hitter mentions above. If you don't believe it do the Bonds drill and watch the player the first time they conitnue to move up after each hit .

It is worth it however when you here the opposing coach say she's the one that jacked the change up last at bat !!!!!

agreed

 

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In our opinion we have a basic philosophy that our hitters must determine what they can hit and that we want them to call balls and strikes so the umpires job will be easier by just having to determine safe or out.

We teach them to hit balls that are 5 inches in/out above and below the official strike zone...as no umpire is perfect except for Bretman. ;& They must know their happy zone as TSW called it and what you would swing at they might not however if they hit it and it lands safely in the brown, the green or parking lot it is all good. This is why the catcher after each inning is a source of information as to what the umpire is calling verses what you perceive they are calling and you the hitter must adjust and not complain...adjust.

Standing in front of the box thinking you are going to catch it before it rises, curves or drops puts more of a burden on the hitter to make choices quicker and it makes it easy on the umpire because if they swing it is a strike no matter where the ball is in my opinion.

 

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up in the box....for older pitchers who have moving pitches (skrew,curve,rise,drop curve, drop) you have a better chance of hitting the ball before it breaks... as a catcher when calling pitches, i look for where the batter is standing in the box...if she's all the way at the back , im gonna throw her a ton of moving pitches..most likely she'll never get near it.

 

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Back of the box is the drop ball. Here is a web site that you can use to train your catchers. Top Rise. From the experts!

http://www.windpitch.com/PitcherCatcherChart.html

 

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fair territory is bigger when you bunt AND swing when you are up in the box. A 60mph fastball travels at 88' per second. from the back of the plate to the back of the rubber is 40'. the travel distance to reach the front of the plate from a typical pitcher release point is about 35' so 35/88 = .397 second. if they are up in the box at 34' = .386 and back in the box at 38' .432 seconds. so we are talking about .046 of a second less time. thats less than 1/20th of a second. There are a lot of things a 16 year old girl can decide in 1/20th of a second (if she lieks a guy, if the new skirt works, what kind of ice cream she wants, etc..) - but whether to swing or not isn't one of them. I'll take the bigger playing field vs the more time theory. I'll also take my chances on the really fast ball being up front (cause that's what you'll get) vs the drop curve, or junk pitch movement or rise ball movement being up close.

 

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Then why don't major leaguers or team USA play in the front of the box if it is better to hit from there? You can't tell me we are smarter or more talented than they are? That is like saying I am a better real estate mogul than Donald Trump I just operate on smaller scale just doesn't make sense.
If it was better to Hit Cat's movement or Gerg Maddux from they very front of the box they would be doing it !!!!!

 

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In my opinion I agree with the bunt especially on a sacrifice however not on hitting. I hear it all the time from hitters that X pitcher was so slow and I like pitchers who pitch faster...then learn to adjust and dance with the pitcher. The real issue in our opinion comes from getting the hitter to understand timing and rhythm...blink your eyes twice as fast as you can and that equals about one second, now blink them once as fast as you can and that is about .50 seconds. Can you be at toe touch on a flexed knee prior to the ball being released? The timing issue really comes from allowing the hips not to stop until you can recognize spin, speed, release and when you do the back elbow lowering into the slot and the heel planting will determine your timing no matter where you stand in the box. It is not unusual for our hitters to have 5 or 6 foul balls and get a hit or a walk and they are not up in the box. Look closely at the high level college teams, NPF or MLB and consider why they do not use this tactic...good pitchers can exploit it and good hitters do not do it as the hitters will adjust and rotate as needed and drive the ball and in my opinion the coaches panic and move the kids up and unless they have practiced this it will not work very well in our opinion.

I will let someone else explain the Bonds drill...

 

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fair territory is bigger when you bunt AND swing when you are up in the box. A 60mph fastball travels at 88' per second. from the back of the plate to the back of the rubber is 40'. the travel distance to reach the front of the plate from a typical pitcher release point is about 35' so 35/88 = .397 second. if they are up in the box at 34' = .386 and back in the box at 38' .432 seconds. so we are talking about .046 of a second less time. thats less than 1/20th of a second. There are a lot of things a 16 year old girl can decide in 1/20th of a second (if she lieks a guy, if the new skirt works, what kind of ice cream she wants, etc..) - but whether to swing or not isn't one of them. I'll take the bigger playing field vs the more time theory. I'll also take my chances on the really fast ball being up front (cause that's what you'll get) vs the drop curve, or junk pitch movement or rise ball movement being up close.

Just do what the pros do bro! They know better then we do. Your post is fancy and sexy but im sure the pros have already been there and done that. Just do what the pros do and you'll be happy.

 

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fair territory is bigger when you bunt AND swing when you are up in the box. A 60mph fastball travels at 88' per second. from the back of the plate to the back of the rubber is 40'. the travel distance to reach the front of the plate from a typical pitcher release point is about 35' so 35/88 = .397 second. if they are up in the box at 34' = .386 and back in the box at 38' .432 seconds. so we are talking about .046 of a second less time. thats less than 1/20th of a second. There are a lot of things a 16 year old girl can decide in 1/20th of a second (if she lieks a guy, if the new skirt works, what kind of ice cream she wants, etc..) - but whether to swing or not isn't one of them. I'll take the bigger playing field vs the more time theory. I'll also take my chances on the really fast ball being up front (cause that's what you'll get) vs the drop curve, or junk pitch movement or rise ball movement being up close.

If you look at the difference time (.046) then what it really means is that the hitter has 12% more time to recognize the pitch. I like to see our hitters at least neutral or a little bit deeper then neutral to gain as much of that 12% as possible. I would never want to help the pitcher gain an advantage by reducing the distance an increasing her speed. In my opinion this gives the pitcher a decided advantage. The longer a hitter has to recogize pitch rotation then the better off they are in adjusting to it. Help your hitters by training them to recognize spin and they will adjust to the movement pitches much better.

 

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Great post and discussion on this topic. This gives you the consumer a choice if you got your moneys worth at the last clinic you attended. Why I posted Camps and Clinic. Did they discuss stance and if they did, what did they teach. Some good sources and posts on this subject above. That is why this Forum is great. We have many on OFC with knowledge on hitting. Read the post sources for hitting do you use. Ted Williams and many other sources were brought up. These OFC members spend time reading and building what they know about hitting. We may not always agree, But I know I respect what they post on here. As long as we all agree its about what is best for the kids, then we can all learn from posts like this one.

 

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At the younger ages I dont have a problem moving a girl back in the box when we face a faster pitcher, but as the get older and advance in there skills I think along the lines of middle of the box and adjust as a hitter.

 

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We have found that it does not matter where in the box.....for us anyway it is making sure we are not wrapping the shoulders too far but rather staying square with the plate.....each player is a bit different but when my daughter isn't square with her shoulders......everything is off.

 

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fair territory is bigger when you bunt AND swing when you are up in the box. A 60mph fastball travels at 88' per second. from the back of the plate to the back of the rubber is 40'. the travel distance to reach the front of the plate from a typical pitcher release point is about 35' so 35/88 = .397 second. if they are up in the box at 34' = .386 and back in the box at 38' .432 seconds. so we are talking about .046 of a second less time. thats less than 1/20th of a second. There are a lot of things a 16 year old girl can decide in 1/20th of a second (if she lieks a guy, if the new skirt works, what kind of ice cream she wants, etc..) - but whether to swing or not isn't one of them. I'll take the bigger playing field vs the more time theory. I'll also take my chances on the really fast ball being up front (cause that's what you'll get) vs the drop curve, or junk pitch movement or rise ball movement being up close.

Technically, you reduce the amount of fair territory available for yourself when moving up in the box. If you're up in the box, you have just left valuable real estate behind you (fair territory) at contact, an undesirable event in my opinion when swinging. Moving up in the box is fine for a sacrifice bunt for obvious reasons. A neutral setup in the box producing a double down the line is reduced to a gound out or a line out if the same exact contact is made by a batter up in the box. Why not give yourself more real estate and a few hundredths of a second more reaction time by setting up neutral to slightly deep in the box? It makes perfect sense to me.

Len

 

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I like to think it depends upon the pitcher. You can watch the pitcher and determine if her pitches break early or late, then adjust the batter accordingly.

 

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We are teaching our 11U's to be in a neutral position. I don't want to waste the time moving them up in the box on a slow pitcher and back on a faster pitcher. They will have to un-learn that information in the next couple years, and we would have just wasted a year or two. We are starting the process of trying to get them to recognize speed and movement from the hand. It would be much easier to simply move them up or back, but we would be doing them a disservice. We will pay the price at times against certain pitchers that are either fast or slow, but it will improve their hitting in the long run.

 

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Quote from Dave Paetkau's hitting camp which was held at the Ohio Wave complex in December. "if a pitcher is throwing 50 mph and your in the back of the box and you now move to the front of the box the same pitcher would be throwing 62 mph" He was basically stating where do you think your hitter has a better chance of hitting up in the box, or back in the box? Reaction time and pitch recognition is what it's all about it. He did refer to the major leaguers and that was why you don't see major leaguers in the front of the box, more reaction time towards the back of the box. That's why wherever your hitters stand in the box, we as coaches must stress pitch recognition. The great hitters know their zones and are adjusting themselves either closer to the plate or farther from the plate all the time. Hey another thread closer or farther from the plate.

 

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One of the main points of this whole discussion thread is about timing of the swing. Once you have established timing with a hitter in relationship to pitching the last thing you would want is to create variables in their timing for their age group. This is even more true at the younger ages. This is similar to playing russian roulette with the swing.

The more you move them the harder it will be for them to get the timing of the ball. I tell all my hitters to start with the front foot at the back corner of the plate. If their coach in his infinate knowledge tells them to move up I have told them to do as the coach request. But no further than the front edge of the plate. Beyond that and the timing of the swing will change with the speed of the ball. AT EVERY LEVEL. In short their swing will be late because they are not used to seeing pitches that close.

I have seen Crystal Bustos adjust in the batters box while baiting a pitcher but were talking about the best female hitter in the world. The other aspect of that is it is usually in and out more than up and back when she makes her adjustments.

Elliott.

 

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Timing, I wish every pitcher threw the same speed! That would make timing easy, no pitcher does however, so to say back, up, middle depends on the pitcher. We teach middle to front, if they throw with speed we move them up, why hit a ball at it's highest point by being in the back of the box? At 12U no kid is truly blowing it by ya and if she does, give her a nod and say Thank you for the lesson! If a pithcher is working 40' and you are hitting at 38' you are getting it before it moves, so why be in the back of the box? No hitting or slapping lefty ever hits the ball from the back of the box, so why would a righty be back there?

 

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Lawder,

Its not dependent on the pitcher if you teach your hitters to adjust the swing based on the way the pitcher pitches. If they are slower wait longer, if they are faster react quicker.
You may think that is a hard thing to teach but if you go about it the right way it is actually not that hard.

That is what Howard Carrier was talking about when he stated Dance with the pitcher.

Elliott.

 

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Elliot good to see you posting again...this is why we teach the Barry Bonds drill to teach the hitters to adjust and dance with the pitcher.

One of our girls who is a quality pitcher for her high school team that can change speeds and hits her spots will have 12 to 14 strikeouts when the coach mandates his whole team move up in the box. This is his philosophy and fun to watch each year...it is almost like padding her stats when this happens as you know his hitters can not adjust.