Was it really worth it???

[wvanalmsick]

From the OHSAA June 1 Meeting minutes.

2 incidences of girls participating on non-scholastic teams during the OHSAA softball season.

(Name deleted) High School had a student-athlete in girls? junior varsity softball violate Sports Regulation 7.2.1, Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs-Team Sports, when the student-athlete participated in a non-school game while a member of the school team. In accordance with the Sport Regulation and Bylaw 11, Penalties, the Commissioner?s Office declared the student ineligible for the school?s next two contests. Furthermore, in accordance with Bylaw 10-2-1, Forfeitures, the school must forfeit the victorious contest in which the ineligible student participated following her participation in the non-interscholastic program and before the penalty was assessed

(Name Deleted)Junior High School had a student-athlete in junior high softball violate General Sports Regulation 7.2.1, Participating in Non-Interscholastic Programs-Team Sports, when the student-athlete participated in a non-school game while a member of the school team. In accordance with the Sport Regulation and Bylaw 11, Penalties, the Commissioner?s Office declared the student ineligible for the school?s next two contests. Furthermore, in accordance with Bylaw 10-2-1, Forfeitures, the school must forfeit the victorious contest in which the ineligible student participated after the violation occurred and prior to the student sitting out the required two-game suspension.

 

[tjsmize3]

I'll throw in my 2 cents on this one. I realize the intent of the post is to point out that for the 12 or 13 weeks (whatever it is) that we play school ball it is probably best to just follow the rules and not put the HS program in jeopardy. And... I would generally take the position that rules are rules... period! It's just that this particular rule that we have in Ohio is so anti-athlete that it begs to be broken. The decision to allow an athlete to participate in a non-scholastic event should first and foremost be a decision by the individual program and not the OHSAA as an across the board mandate. Secondly, as the recruiting pressure and expectations of these athletes continues to ratchet up we will continue to see the decision to NOT play HS sports more and more attractive to many athletes. If the NCAA can see it's way in trying to walk back college recruiting pressure on young developing athletes, I think the OHSAA could do the same. Perhaps allowing an athlete a limit of 4 non-scholastic events during the HS season (or something along those lines) would go a long way towards allowing these athletes to feel less pressure in enjoying their HS sport while still being able to participate in some high-level events in season.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

I'll throw in my 2 cents on this one. I realize the intent of the post is to point out that for the 12 or 13 weeks (whatever it is) that we play school ball it is probably best to just follow the rules and not put the HS program in jeopardy. And... I would generally take the position that rules are rules... period! It's just that this particular rule that we have in Ohio is so anti-athlete that it begs to be broken. The decision to allow an athlete to participate in a non-scholastic event should first and foremost be a decision by the individual program and not the OHSAA as an across the board mandate. Secondly, as the recruiting pressure and expectations of these athletes continues to ratchet up we will continue to see the decision to NOT play HS sports more and more attractive to many athletes. If the NCAA can see it's way in trying to walk back college recruiting pressure on young developing athletes, I think the OHSAA could do the same. Perhaps allowing an athlete a limit of 4 non-scholastic events during the HS season (or something along those lines) would go a long way towards allowing these athletes to feel less pressure in enjoying their HS sport while still being able to participate in some high-level events in season.

This is nothing more than self center individuals. And, to be honest I don't blame the kids as much as I blame the selfish parents and travel ball coaches. Be parents and tell your kids no and those travel ball coaches be respectful and tell you kids no during high school season. What is really sad is most travel ball coaches are good people and respectful of high school ball. They wouldn't allow their kids to violate the rules. Those selfish coaches give all good coaches a bad name. You can disagree with rules, you can try and get them changed but while they are still in place follow them. Those kids didn't just hurt themselves but the hurt all their teammates as well.

As far as more and more kids not playing high school ball people have been saying that for decades. And guess what, girls are still playing high school ball.

 

[wow]

Well this is a very polarizing topic. First off self centered individuals? What? Its the girls who are playing the game not the coaches/parents. OHSAA simply overregulates what these kids can do. Its not like this in other states, ironically some of the more heavily recruited ones IE GA. Pennsylvania is another example where this does not exist. Tryin to regulate HS sports is simply not in the best interest of everyone, specifically the girls. What it does is create issues like what is noted above. If a kid wants to play high level ball let them. Coaches are not to blame. I have never seen a travel coach force a kid to choose. Yes you hear the horror stories, but its so rare. The other issue is the ambiguity around the rules. Whenever you overregulate anything you stymie growth.

HS ball is simply a fun environment where kids, who typically play with kids outside of their neighborhood, get to play with their friends. Why is it that travel kids/parents/coaches have to consistently fight the HS nonsense?S

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Well this is a very polarizing topic. First off self centered individuals? What? Its the girls who are playing the game not the coaches/parents. OHSAA simply overregulates what these kids can do. Its not like this in other states, ironically some of the more heavily recruited ones IE GA. Pennsylvania is another example where this does not exist. Tryin to regulate HS sports is simply not in the best interest of everyone, specifically the girls. What it does is create issues like what is noted above. If a kid wants to play high level ball let them. Coaches are not to blame. I have never seen a travel coach force a kid to choose. Yes you hear the horror stories, but its so rare. The other issue is the ambiguity around the rules. Whenever you overregulate anything you stymie growth.

HS ball is simply a fun environment where kids, who typically play with kids outside of their neighborhood, get to play with their friends. Why is it that travel kids/parents/coaches have to consistently fight the HS nonsense?S

Yes self center individuals. Those players caused the team to ff games, and their actions directly hurt 11, 12 or more players on their school team for themselves. You are right it is a pain but it is the rule. Just about all the high level travel ball coaches I know hate it but they deal with the rule. They don't let their players violate the rule at least not on their watch.

 

[wow]

Yes self center individuals. Those players caused the team to ff games, and their actions directly hurt 11, 12 or more players on their school team for themselves. You are right it is a pain but it is the rule. Just about all the high level travel ball coaches I know hate it but they deal with the rule. They don't let their players violate the rule at least not on their watch.

That I agree with. Just was not sure you if you meant Parents/coaches!

 

[tjsmize3]

Look, I don't really care all that much for your hypocritical preachy ethics lecture as you sit and call travel coaches you don't know and good families making some bad decisions names like "arrogant," "egotistical" and "selfish." You (and I'm referring to HH and 3BB) clearly are removed from what many good families with competitive athletes are feeling in this day and age. I'm certainly not here to tear down HS athletics as my children have benefited greatly. I'm also not advocating people literally break rules they have committed to follow when playing on a high school sports team. What I am saying is if you took the time to talk with people who are not at all in favor of this across the board restriction placed on athletes during the HS season you might find that there is an intelligent discussion that could be had. I wanted to share my opinion that I think it is an anti-athlete position for OHSAA to take. Your response is to talk about "selfish families," "arrogant travel coaches," travel players stinking it up during the HS season and travel coaches taking credit for their player's swings... are either of you for real or are these just 2 fake on screen bigoted personas?

 

[Louuuuu]

My question is... Who even has the time to work with their travel coaches while playing high school ball ?

A lot of people make time, because their HS Coach is nothing more than a history teacher who is looking for an extra $2500 a year for "coaching" a sport they played in high school - 25 years ago. ** Not ALL HS coaches. There are some good ones out there! ** Most of the OHSAA coaches I've seen over the years offer very little instruction. Make out a line-up - ocassionally yell out "C'mon, let's get a hit" or "You gotta make that play" - go home.

 

[coachjwb]

The rules are the rules, until they are changed. Most travel coaches and travel players and parents know them and shouldn't put their players and themselves in a position to affect their eligibility and especially their school team's success. If they don't want to follow the rules, then don't play school ball. Most travel coaches do respect the rules even if they don't agree with them, but shame on those few who either ignore or even encourage their school players to break them. You just taught your player that it's OK to break rules if you don't like them, and that's a way more important lesson than anything you can teach them about softball.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

Look, I don't really care all that much for your hypocritical preachy ethics lecture as you sit and call travel coaches you don't know and good families making some bad decisions names like "arrogant," "egotistical" and "selfish." You (and I'm referring to HH and 3BB) clearly are removed from what many good families with competitive athletes are feeling in this day and age.

You must be one of those selfish coaches that encourages their players to violate the rules. I absolutely know what it takes for kids play at the next level. I have a son in college playing a division 1 sport. I have a daughter already committed to play a D I sport. My wife and I both played D I sports in college. We know what it takes. We have been their personally and don it. Our kids are doing it. We have put countless hours in with coaches paying for the extra instruction. We would NEVER allow our son or daughter(s) violate the rules. That is our decision as PARENTS we say NO you’re not playing.

I'm certainly not here to tear down HS athletics as my children have benefited greatly. I'm also not advocating people literally break rules they have committed to follow when playing on a high school sports team. What I am saying is if you took the time to talk with people who are not at all in favor of this across the board restriction placed on athletes during the HS season you might find that there is an intelligent discussion that could be had. I wanted to share my opinion that I think it is an anti-athlete position for OHSAA to take

You can have all the discussions you want. You can work to change the rule. You can hate the rule, heck I don’t like it. But while the rule in place follow it!
.

Your response is to talk about "selfish families," "arrogant travel coaches,"

Yes, selfish when 1 individual cause harm to the whole to because of their actions. When 1 players harms 10,11,12+ other girls for their action, then yes I call it selfish.

travel players stinking it up during the HS season and travel coaches taking credit for their player's swings... are either of you for real or are these just 2 fake on screen bigoted personas?

It doesn't give a coach the right to tell your players to violate the rules!

 

[Bink44]

Bill V, once again you share a good topic with the forum. I will give my opinion and keep it short and sweet.

Although I dont always agree with OHSAA...I do completely agree with this rule. The Student Athlete is very busy during there HS season. For incoming Freshmen, they are learning what true TIME MANAGEMENT is and how to deal with it effectively. The last thing they need from a Travelball Coach is to be pressured into attending any additional softball related activities!! Trust me, I've been coaching high level travel for 15 years now...and these young Lady's need every Sunday off during HS to rest there body's and just be kids!!

Someone mentioned above that they have never heard of a Travel Coach demanding a players attendence. Well, I know us Travel Coaches can be very persuasive in a round about way in order to build Teams. But interfering with the HS seaon is not only breaking the rules, but it is as one poster stated, being self centered & selfish.

Another poster mentioned the ever changing recruitment process and how this may effect there chances??? Come on, give me a break...I have yet to meet a player who by being away from there Travel Teams for 3 months are going to cause them to fall behind. Most players train so hard with there Travel Teams the other 9 months, that this has ZERO effect on there long term goals.

In short, if you are a travel coach...show your, support, respect & admiration for your players by attending and enjoying watching them play a HS game.

Lee Pyles
Ohio Lasers Green

 

[CARDS]

My question is... Who even has the time to work with their travel coaches while playing high school ball ? .

This is middle school and a JV player so I am guessing 14 under for both...

I would say it is possible they played with their own travel club but more likely little Suzy or Sally was asked to sub for a travel team and the parents let them do it. Heck, they may have just played in a friendly or practice with their travel team...

I am sure there is more to the story...Stuff like this generally gets to OHSAA by parents...Either those that want to secure playing time for their DD or those that let everyone know their business...
I would bet there is 50+ more players in each region around the state that violate contact rules throughout the year from middle school to HS.

 

[brownsfan]

I must be one of those selfish parents then as I want this rule abolished. However, it's not because I want my dd to break rules, but the choice should be up to the parents much like the facemask.

Some of these HS's play a demanding schedule. They travel a lot, practice a lot with girls constantly moving and never standing still, etc. I could see taking a Sunday off for rest and relaxation and allowing girls to be girls. But there are some HS's that are the complete opposite and the the girls that play at a high level need that day with their travel teams to help keep them sharp.

When DD was in MS, scenario 2 was where she was at and I wanted her to be with her travel team. It was still club but on it's second year of the OHSAA requirement to make it sanctioned, so we didn't break the rule. Her first two years in HS was scenario 1 and she needed that day off. Last year, it was a good mixture of both and I'm not complaining. But she needed a day of practice with her travel team, even if it was only once just to stay sharp.

She's a senior now and now dictates what's going on in the off-season. She wants scenario 1 to happen her senior year.

So before calling anyone selfish, arrogant, etc...know the facts first with the HS program.

 

[coachjwb]

As Lee stated, there actually is a good reason for this rule, albeit one that could be debated on both sides. But my stance on this, having been both a travel and high school coach, is that I have always agreed with and abided by it.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

Rules are everywhere that's the problem today, even laws can't be withheld because someone is saying it's not a law...... As far as travel ball and recruiting goes, leave it alone, yes the rule is outdated and should be changed, but for now, it's the rule! Many kids over the years got recruited and will still get recruited! Too much elitism out there these days and only 1 in 100,000 kids get a full ride anyway....

As for playing for travel or school coaches, it doesn't matter, they are the coach, the boss, the head honcho at that time and we always told ours, you play and do what they say, not what your other coach told you. When they get their jobs after graduation, are they going to listen to what their old boss said, or their current boss is saying??????

 

[softballmom2000]

Am I reading it correctly that those are Junior High examples, middle school right?

 

[coachjwb]

One says HS JV, and the other one says junior high.

 

[softballmom2000]

Thank you

 

[tjsmize3]

I?m just not going to argue about a point I am not making. No one advocates athletes should literally be breaking rules. If you are interpreting my sentence that ?it begs to be broken? as such, then you misunderstand. My point is I don't agree with the rule stated and I feel it is putting increasing pressure on athletes that want to play high level college ball. While I don?t condone breaking the rules, I do have empathy towards families who find themselves backed into what they think is a corner. While Jeff, Lee and others are entitled to their opinion, I respect the way they came on here and made their point. I think a lot of good discussion can stem from that. I too have a daughter that played D1 sports and in her time at 14u there was nowhere near the same pressure on families in terms of recruiting as we are seeing today. If your daughter truly wants to play in the SEC, PAC 12, BIG 10, etc... it does not take a genius to see what players and from what organizations are being given those spots... and how early the discussions and offers are coming! There are very intelligent people who see that trend and feel that for their daughter to compete for some of these spots they will need to be ahead of the curve and peaking as early as mid-June between 13u and 14u season when colleges start coming out in bunches. Since it's hard to draw the attention of these programs if you aren't a stand out, parents are left to read the writing on the wall as they see it. To ignore that this phenomenon is putting increasing pressure on many good families and that the OHSAA rule in question contributes is naive at best. To relegate these people (that you don't know) as selfish and arrogant is wrong and I take exception to that. I am truly happy for your daughter that she will get a chance to play ball in college, but her story and your story doesn't equal everyone else's story and it certainly doesn't give you the right to dismiss other's viewpoints. I do not agree that if OHSAA permitted players to play 2, 3 or 4 events (whatever makes sense) during HS season we are going to see increasing injuries and lower grades. It would be a great topic for OHSAA to consider and frankly not back some families into corners. For what it?s worth I applaud the NCAA for looking more in depth at early recruiting and I think we as travel coaches need to do our best to counsel and calm families and dispel some of the hyperbole that has been created. In our organization we have coaches who also coach high school so I don?t know where this stereotype comes from that travel coaches are anti-highschool ball. I don?t make my argument by belittling high school coaches, so I guess I am just a little put off that when I stated my opinion the harsh judgement of families and travel coaches followed.

 

[Heavy Hitter]

I must be one of those selfish parents then as I want this rule abolished. However, it's not because I want my dd to break rules, but the choice should be up to the parents much like the facemask.

Some of these HS's play a demanding schedule. They travel a lot, practice a lot with girls constantly moving and never standing still, etc. I could see taking a Sunday off for rest and relaxation and allowing girls to be girls. But there are some HS's that are the complete opposite and the the girls that play at a high level need that day with their travel teams to help keep them sharp.

When DD was in MS, scenario 2 was where she was at and I wanted her to be with her travel team. It was still club but on it's second year of the OHSAA requirement to make it sanctioned, so we didn't break the rule. Her first two years in HS was scenario 1 and she needed that day off. Last year, it was a good mixture of both and I'm not complaining. But she needed a day of practice with her travel team, even if it was only once just to stay sharp.

She's a senior now and now dictates what's going on in the off-season. She wants scenario 1 to happen her senior year.

So before calling anyone selfish, arrogant, etc...know the facts first with the HS program.

You can call it what ever you want. You can try and rationalize however you want. What would you call it if you had a player that was willing to cause there hs team to ff games and punish every player on his/her team because he/she doesn't want to follow the rules?