What’s considered a Nationals??

[Passion4theGame]

So my question…..

If there’s a Nationals that didn’t draw teams but they end up having 11 teams should that be considered a Nationals event? As an “A” level team/ coach do you jump in to trophy chase??

There are so many events out there that are labeled “Nationals” but as a coach if you enter an event with 11 teams are you trophy chasing at that point just to put that on your resume?? Wouldn’t it be better to play in an event with more teams and test your team??? Just curious.

Ohio Softball represented very well at Nationals all across the country this year. I believe we are a softball hotbed and some of the best talent comes from our state.

With that said I think as coaches we need to take into consideration what we are playing. Don’t pump your chest if you won a ”Nationals” that had 11 teams in it…. We ALL know who’s who around Ohio. Even MidWest. Don’t act like your team is something incredible for winning a tournament with 11 teams in it when those teams in it are not tough as the competition most play every weekend at events here in Ohio.

Rant over…


Feel free to Bash or speak your mind in this thread.

 

[FC2019]

Well i will say this i find it funny that u go to North Carolina or Myrtle Beach or Ocean City to play Ohio teams hahahah that you could of just played in ohio for a quarter of the price I dont know people who brag about winning them but they are over rated and over priced for sure (the tourneys not the teams )

 

[CARDS]

It goes back to when and why teams make their schedules in the first place . No need to play in qualifying events if your end of season tournament is the Midwest all sanctioned WS, SEAA or the many others that have popped up for teams to finish the season that draws teams away from sanctions World Series. If you have events that are buy in (and unfortunately the major sanctions allow this this) it also waters down the pool. With that said…I believe teams need to play in events where they are competitive and the ladies/families can enjoy the last event of the year. PGF , ASA/USA and USSSA Has also priced their product out of reach for many teams. We played in an ASA gold 18 event back in 2012 where there was only 20 teams in it . They were mostly from a 300 mile radius of Indianapolis. The number of teams did not take away from the event since everyone had to play their way in and it was a very good tournament that was well represented by top tier teams from OH, KY TN IN ILL, MI, KS, PA

 

[Passion4theGame]

Well i will say this i find it funny that u go to North Carolina or Myrtle Beach or Ocean City to play Ohio teams hahahah that you could of just played in ohio for a quarter of the price I dont know people who brag about winning them but they are over rated and over priced for sure (the tourneys not the teams )

I let my Athletes choose and they chose Ocean City. We didn’t play a single team from Ohio. We played 1 team we played all season and was probably one of the best teams we faced all season. A team from NY. They finished 3rd. We competed like others with several great teams with more than 40 teams in their “Nationals” and finished 4th.

my question was do you consider a “Nationals” 11 teams in an event?

 

[CARDS]

I let my Athletes choose and they chose Ocean City. We didn’t play a single team from Ohio. We played 1 team we played all season and was probably one of the best teams we faced all season. A team from NY. They finished 3rd. We competed like others with several great teams with more than 40 teams in their “Nationals” and finished 4th.

my question was do you consider a “Nationals” 11 teams in an event?

Buy in no… play in yes….

 

[Doom Leader]

PGF is the only true play in to qualify, now a days nationals are where you choose to play, showcase tournaments changes the whole national landscape! Ohio teams did very well this year

 

[flygirlsdad]

You still have to choose to play PGF and I dont know that everyone has to qualify. I think ASA gold still has qualification requirements. USA A took out the qualifying but at least at 14u the field looked strong with 70 teams and only a 550 entry fee for a national. There certainly are a lot more pricy destination nationals then before. Its hard to keep up with.

 

[daboss]

My opinion, don't worry about the tag. Pick the tourneys you want to play in. Enjoy the week. Good luck and have fun. Lock the memories into your mind. Know that the experience is the most important thing to the girls, coaches, and families and hopefully makes everyone feel good about themselves. Hopefully they get a positive feeling of accomplishment and a confidence that will help be a driving force in everyone's future.

It doesn't matter how many teams play. If you win, you were the best of those teams that day or week.

It's okay. As competitors and because of the love of the chosen sport, we want to compete. It's human nature to test ourselves to see how we measure up against others. What's really important is what can be gained from the experience.

In a way, what's being asked here is; what the importance of the brand or label. The first thing that comes to mind to me is professional baseball. Major League Baseball had the National League that eventually led to a sub par league known as the American League. Eventually they began competing against each other. An annual All Star game was established and a World Series event, simply because of the competing nature of those involved. It transpired because of the vision of the owners and promoters to make money from the events.

I remember when NSA first started. The biggies at the time were ASA and USSSA and of course Little League. Here comes a newly formed sanction and in our region many turned their nose upwards to them. NSA held a "World Series" in our local area. They declared a winner from that event. I absolutely promise you all the girls, coaches, and families are proud of the accomplishment and to this day hold their heads high. That glow and sense of pride is just as strong as any of the winners of the ASA and USSSA milestone events that same year. Why judge them? Many will say the last place team from a World Series from another sanction could beat the World Champions from NSA. Really? For all we know they didn't. lol. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. Does it really matter?

Tournaments of any magnitude are for making money for somebody or some cause. The words used to promote that tourney helps make that tournament attractive. The more teams that participate, the more potential for profit. Access to facilities help dictate the number of teams they can accommodate as you can only play a certain number of games per diamond in a 24-hour time frame. If a large tourney with a label of a World Series or National attached has any open slots in the pending schedule, however the format was used to draw the teams into entering, they will most assuredly take the entry money from a list of "Will Call" teams and fill the void.

I'm not going to judge a team for doing well in any tournament simply because there was a minimum amount of teams that participated. If we didn't play in it, how can we judge them. If we did play in it and got beat, well, let's leave that animal alone.....

 

[CARDS]

You still have to choose to play PGF and I dont know that everyone has to qualify. I think ASA gold still has qualification requirements. USA A took out the qualifying but at least at 14u the field looked strong with 70 teams and only a 550 entry fee for a national. There certainly are a lot more pricy destination nationals then before. Its hard to keep up with.

Was there any gate fees at your tournament?
I was reading on another site where USA dropped entry fees to under $500 in some areas but added a team gate fee to make up the difference at some locations. $150 per day 0r $350 for the tournament naturally with the hotel restrictions as well.

 

[wpaguy]

Just got back from TCS in Myrtle Beach for 18u. Had a great time and daughters team finished in top 16 out of 84. I know Doom and Outlaws made a deep run also....We played some teams from Kansas, Oklahoma, NJ, NC , SC and yes even one very good western PA team...Guess what ...That was the best game of the weekend . What a game....Many of these beach trips are for Fun getaway / vacation. If your luckily enough to play good, play some different teams, and maybe have college coach watch that's a big bonus....I would be more worried about about team Pumping their chest when they used Guest players to help get them there. But thats another topic ....LOL

 

[flygirlsdad]

Was there any gate fees at your tournament?
I was reading on another site where USA dropped entry fees to under $500 in some areas but added a team gate fee to make up the difference at some locations. $150 per day 0r $350 for the tournament naturally with the hotel restrictions as well.

 

[flygirlsdad]

I wasn't there so don't know about a gate fee, but if it was a true gate fee to cover admissions that could be cheaper overall compared to everyone buying a weekly pass. As far as I know ASA nationals are not stay to play, at least they were not when my oldest went through.

 

[Maria24]

I understand your frustration with "Nationals" events with low team counts. While winning is great, an 11-team tournament might not accurately reflect your team's skill compared to tougher competitions. Earning respect through hard-fought wins in competitive tournaments will speak volumes, far beyond any questionable "Nationals" trophy in a small field. Remember, a trophy without context is like an MLB Varsity Jacket on a couch potato – it doesn't tell the whole story.

 

[CARDS]

I understand your frustration with "Nationals" events with low team counts. While winning is great, an 11-team tournament might not accurately reflect your team's skill compared to tougher competitions. Earning respect through hard-fought wins in competitive tournaments will speak volumes, far beyond any questionable "Nationals" trophy in a small field. Remember, a trophy without context is like an MLB varsity jacket on a couch potato – it doesn't tell the whole story.

If any team wins a National, it’s worth celebrating regardless of sanctioning body play in or, buy in event.

Many teams Organizations struggle with team GOALS that should be put in place prior to the start of the seasonseason.

Yeah, at tryouts many coaches say we plan to play in XYZ event or to finish up at XYZ nationals but in most cases the schedule and team expectations change as the season goes on.

This is because in a lot of cases, teams do not know what they have or they have newer coaches that dont understand how to best develop talent, they have injuries etc. As the season progresses, many coaches find that their A team is more of a lower teir A or B team or, their B team is more of a C team thus the move from an A or B level national event to the Fastpitch Jamboree. (No knock on the Jamboree, it was a great event while it was going on).
In other cases it's money.... Big nationals generally come with big fees....Most parent know the national you play in is not going to be viewed by anyone other than them so many tend to make it a vacation to end the season/summer (that was spent every weekend with ball).

Now sadly, tournament directors need more teams to make more money not necessarily better events. So a MEGA national’s event doesn’t mean “mega good teams”.
I would say having "play in only national events" of 25-30 teams there is no gemmy games as teams earn their way in playing in other larger qualifying events.

I was looking at the results of one of the more high-profile PGF 18U 2023 national events with 65 teams in it.

16 teams finished 0-2 tied for 65th 15 teams finished 1-2 tied for 49th… Honestly, the top 25/30 teams were the only ones that battled.

As far as playing in competitive season events…It does not have to be a national per say.
Many have seen some small blended travel/college events like the Vernon Bibb classic in October that had some tough play every game or, open events like the Keith Carver where 16/18U teams had to have a resume and a parent waiver to make the open event.
There have also been some very competitive pull together 4 or 5 team robin play that was like a national finals I watched down in Louisville but...These events dont ask the average A team/organization to to play in them.