What if Big Ten used FP tournament tiebreakers for seeding? Would OSU even advance to playoff bracke

[terry folino]

Crazy, but imagine if Head to Head was #1 tiebreaker ( which it is in the conference - yet the committee seems to suggest their own rules), the best the Buckeyes would get would be #3 seed into their bracket. Yet, the AP has both OSU and Michigan ranked ahead of the teams playing for the actual B1G Championship. As many coaches would argue, the pool play games have to count for something. Did the 9 pool play games played count for anything? Or does the big name coaches actually earn votes from the AP over the up and coming teams like Wisconsin and PSU with low visibility coaches?

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Crazy, but imagine if Head to Head was #1 tiebreaker ( which it is in the conference - yet the committee seems to suggest their own rules), the best the Buckeyes would get would be #3 seed into their bracket. Yet, the AP has both OSU and Michigan ranked ahead of the teams playing for the actual B1G Championship. As many coaches would argue, the pool play games have to count for something. Did the 9 pool play games played count for anything? Or does the big name coaches actually earn votes from the AP over the up and coming teams like Wisconsin and PSU with low visibility coaches?

Well that and OSU and Michigan are actually better teams than Wisconsin and State Penn

 

[coachjwb]

Penn State lost 2 "pool" games ... one to Pitt, and one badly to Michigan ... and Wisconsin lost to both Ohio State and Michigan ... Penn State did advance to the conference championship on a tiebreaker since only one of their losses was to a conference opponent, and since they beat OSU head to head. But now PSU, Wisc. and UM all have 2 losses, and OSU only has one. Not to mention OSU had an arguably tougher non-conference schedule. When you only play 12 games, one loss vs. 2 is a big deal, especially if the quality of the opponents is similar.

In every pool play format I am aware of, the team with the least losses has the #1 seed, right? What am I missing?

 

[Hilliarddad3]

What if the NCAA had guts and stood by their ban, this wouldn't be a discussion......

 

[cobb_of_fury]

What if the NCAA had guts and stood by their ban, this wouldn't be a discussion......

But then people in Happy Valley and Franco and his JoPa loving gang would be sad and the NCAA surly didn't want that - (Even though I can see that whole program slipping back to the football worshiping that caused the *Situation in the first place)


[* I'm not sure its fair to call allowing child rape due to no one having the guts to potentially harm the precious football program a Situation]

 

[Louuuuu]

But then people in Happy Valley and Franco and his JoPa loving gang would be sad and the NCAA surly didn't want that

Didn't the NCAA strip JoePa of "X" number of wins? Remove scholarships? Fine the school?, etc... Then PSU fired some scapegoats.

How much more blood do you want?

Not to trivialize the "situation", but the students/athletes currently in Happy Valley had nothing to do with what happened all those years ago. If they've earned a right to compete in the Big Ten championship, let 'em go.

But find another reason to root against them.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Didn't the NCAA strip JoePa of "X" number of wins? Remove scholarships? Fine the school?, etc... Then PSU fired some scapegoats.

How much more blood do you want?

Not to trivialize the "situation", but the students/athletes currently in Happy Valley had nothing to do with what happened all those years ago. If they've earned a right to compete in the Big Ten championship, let 'em go.

But find another reason to root against them.

The fact that student athletes Chose to go their is not germane to the issue - What happened in Happy Valley was a cult of football where the program could do no wrong - If JoPa said it was OK it was OK.

You do understand what happened there was a VERY bad situation and ruined a lot of peoples lives - But because of the cult of football there -no one was all that interested in punishing the guilty, and once the burden was to great not to do something they levied some fines and sanctions But as soon as the program showed it was gonna change it's ways they lifted the sanctions and the town and the school went right back to worshiping the program and they want to put the statue of a guy who sanctioned child rape back up - That's a problem.

I couldn't give two craps about PSU's football program but it's horrifying to me how easily it was all swept away without breaking the cycle that caused the problem in the first place.

Just sayin...

 

[Hilliarddad3]

Totally agree Cobb..... The kids had the chance to transfer with no penalty to play, NCAA is only about the Benjamin's and they proved it there!!

 

[Louuuuu]

You do understand what happened there was a VERY bad situation and ruined a lot of peoples lives - But because of the cult of football there -no one was all that interested in punishing the guilty, and once the burden was to great not to do something they levied some fines and sanctions But as soon as the program showed it was gonna change it's ways they lifted the sanctions and the town and the school went right back to worshiping the program and they want to put the statue of a guy who sanctioned child rape back up - That's a problem.

I totally agree. But... This is not a Penn State issue. It's a society issue. People love College Football. NCAA loves money. TV networks love ratings. The unfortunate events that happened in State College could have happened anywhere, and the results wouldn't be any different.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I totally agree. But... This is not a Penn State issue. It's a society issue. People love College Football. NCAA loves money. TV networks love ratings. The unfortunate events that happened in State College could have happened anywhere, and the results wouldn't be any different.

I think it could happen a lot of places but not just anywhere - I think Happy Valley is an extreme example of what happens in a lot of college towns with a successful, entrenched coach and obsessive fans. Probably happens in a lot of high schools as well - but It was such an egregious example of hubris I think they should have been made an example.

The State Penn has grown in to a fairly good academic school it's a shame that is not more the focus there -

But you are correct it's also "our" fault for putting such an emphasis on sports - especially at the armature level. It's to much about winning and winning it all and not enough about what college sports are supposed to be about.

I'll tell you how backward I am on this and my opinion shouldn't really be considered when it comes to Big time college sports,

I still think that college sports were better off with just the conference championships and the Mythical National Champion.
So pay no attention to me

 

[Louuuuu]

We now return you to Terry Folino's original post...

 

[terry folino]

Yes, thank you Lou. I was just saying from a TDs point of view, how much discussions take place to seed teams at bracket time, imagine the jockeying being done here. But, by not having clearly posted tiebreakers, we will get to watch the committee dance their explanation...saying this or that is more important while contradiucting previous committees.

Didn't they say the Big 12 champion wasn't worthy several years ago because they didn't play in a championship game?

And while we are talking about the past, let's go way back ( showing my age) didn't Woody sucker punch a player once. Certainly not as bad as PSU situation, or Broyles at Baylor, but all big time programs have issues that get swept away....like even Tressel, in the more modern era. And satellite camps, academic fraud at ND and UNC ( likely most places to some degree)..and the list of exceptions could go on and on. I guess as long someone is the scapegoat in each of these situations, the accused program can go on providing us with amateur entertainment. While the NCAA negotiates another multi Billion $ TV contract .

 

[cobb_of_fury]

TF - I wanted to apologize for Kidnapping your post and dragging it in a whole 'nother direction - the PSU situation is just particularly irritating to me -
It's what's wrong with college sports. Which is sad because there is so much great about college sports.

 

[ech92]

Ohio State is not in a tie breaker with Penn State, Wisconsin, or Michigan when it comes to making the playoffs as they only have 1 lose and the other 3 teams have 2 losses! People also need to quit referring back to the Baylor/TCU situation from a couple years ago, its apples to oranges; first the committee back then said that a lack of a confrence championship " hurt those 2 teams" not disqualified them, second those teams beat NO ONE that year unlike Ohio State this year which is 3-1 against the current top 10 ranked teams and a win over a top 10 ranked ( at the time ) Nebraska! Case closed!