What would you do? the sequel

[ApogeeDemon]

Scenario: You are the coach of a second year 16U Gold team. You are very successful having finished top three in most tournaments in Ohio and top 20 when going out west. A pitcher shows up at your tryout. Not just any pitcher, the #1 pitcher from Pennsylvania that is being sought out by most SEC schools. She wants to join your team. This girl could take your team to a new level. The only issue is that her Dad says he has to call her pitches. He seems very nice and explains that he knows her better than anyone. He explains that he will never tell you when to play her and she can play other positions as you need. Do you allow her on your team and let Dad call her pitches? Do you send her away to another team?

 

[Hilliarddad3]

I'd say don't let your car door hit you in the A$$ when you leave today......

 

[Comp]

Ask him if he is going to make the same demand of her potential college coaches.

 

[Ri-domination]

Hmmm, might add him to the coaching staff. Has he been doing this for some time, cause if so sounds like he knows what he's doing.

 

[Lenski65]

You're just asking for problems if you take them. How do you let one parent dictate what their dd does while the other parents are not allowed? How is that one kid more important than the team? Not on my team.......

 

[ApogeeDemon]

Hmmm, might add him to the coaching staff. Has he been doing this for some time, cause if so sounds like he knows what he's doing.

good point. someone with vision. No rainbows though.

 

[Fairman]

This is a tough one. You want the pitcher but not sure about the dad?

Pitchers dad's especially ones that are so far along at such a young age (16U) have done a lot of work, seen a lot of lessons, gone to a lot of practices, most likely coached at the lower levels....etc. Can he help the team if you put him in the dugout?

What kind of guy is he? Would he be an asset to the team? Could he help the other pitchers improve? Is he an idiot? Would daddy ball raise its ugly head? Does he get along with his daughter? Is he constantly harping on her? Does he ever shut-up and just let her pitch? Does he have any other skills to offer the team? Does he get along with the other coaches? Is mommy going to be a problem? Can he relate to the other players. Would he hit fly balls to the outfield during a practice. Would he carry his weight? Does he have anything that he can teach the kids (or you)? Will he respect the other pitchers and their teammates and coaches....?

You are hiring a pitcher that comes with baggage...will the total package make your team better not; not only the W/L record but the team chemistry. Winning nationals has a way of making a team gel but an idiot in the dugout will destroy whatever you're attempting to build and you'll never get out of Ohio.

Good Luck

 

[Run26]

Scenario: You are the coach of a second year 16U Gold team. You are very successful having finished top three in most tournaments in Ohio and top 20 when going out west. A pitcher shows up at your tryout. Not just any pitcher, the #1 pitcher from Pennsylvania that is being sought out by most SEC schools. She wants to join your team. This girl could take your team to a new level. The only issue is that her Dad says he has to call her pitches. He seems very nice and explains that he knows her better than anyone. He explains that he will never tell you when to play her and she can play other positions as you need. Do you allow her on your team and let Dad call her pitches? Do you send her away to another team?

If she's REALLY that good - let her call her own pitches. I seriously doubt her dad is that tactically superior and is the reason for her throwing success. It would be awesome to have her but you have to build a team and when doing so you treat the players fairly and equally. Don't allow 1 parent a luxury unless you allow them all.

 

[Uber_jones]

I'd pass, from past experience it's always best to build a "team", if you really want to excel as a team it's best to be a team. If a parent wants to call pitches, they've already elevated themselves above the team, no matter how good of a kid she appears to be, the apple never falls far from the team. Next dad will want to dictate who is playing where, only when his kid is pitching.

 

[Stupid Jim]

First red flag, why isn't she playing in Pennsylvania ? Burnt bridges ? And if the father is some kind of pitching guru, what is he doing outside of his state. Pa has some pretty good teams, why isn't he coaching there ? I would pass

 

[SOFTBALLS14]

Well here's the big question.....At that level why is he still calling pitches?? My girls have been calling pitches since 14u first year! There is a sheet out there that is vey reliable! They should be calling pitches both catcher and pitcher by 14u!
College coaches are looking for that. It shows that they know the game and know why they are calling those pitches for the batter in the box at that time. Now I will jump in at times but for 99% of time its my catcher and my pitcher calling the pitches.
So I would ask why is he still calling pitches for her? Why is she looking to pitch for you? Why did they leave the last team?
LOTS of red flags I would proceed with caution....... Could they make the transition to letting her and your catcher call the pitches?? Time for her to get ready for college!! JMO...

 

[cobb_of_fury]

First red flag, why isn't she playing in Pennsylvania ? Burnt bridges ? And if the father is some kind of pitching guru, what is he doing outside of his state. Pa has some pretty good teams, why isn't he coaching there ? I would pass

Speaking as a Pennsylvanian; - If she is close to the boarder a lot of good Ohio teams are closer than the better PA teams - That wouldn't disuade me -
I agree with SB14 By second year 16 I'd rather see girls call their own game. If Dad not calling pitches is the deal breaker - saddly let it go...

 

[The3dm]

Scenario: You are the coach of a second year 16U Gold team. You are very successful having finished top three in most tournaments in Ohio and top 20 when going out west. A pitcher shows up at your tryout. Not just any pitcher, the #1 pitcher from Pennsylvania that is being sought out by most SEC schools. She wants to join your team. This girl could take your team to a new level. The only issue is that her Dad says he has to call her pitches. He seems very nice and explains that he knows her better than anyone. He explains that he will never tell you when to play her and she can play other positions as you need. Do you allow her on your team and let Dad call her pitches? Do you send her away to another team?

First off, by whose account is she the best pitcher in PA? If she is being sought-after by many SEC schools, that means she has been playing on teams(presumably good teams) that get her exposure. So why is she looking to take a step backward (no offense to the Ohio team as there are only a few I would consider top tier)?

I kind of get the dad (I was a pitchers dad myself), but then again if she was such a high caliber pitcher she must have worked with some good coaching/catchers in the past. Why does he feel the need to still be so close, maybe she is a headcase that needs to be managed. Maybe dad is just that good, but why not hook-up with a team in PA, NY, NJ?

Too many questions that I would need answers to before I could make a decision either way. If my team was having that kind of success without her and we had good chemistry, I would be very apprehensive to risk that with so many unknowns. While talent wins games, it is the team chemistry that wins championships and makes all the sacrifices worth it. JMHO

I always applied a simple little test: throw down a blanket in the grass at the beginning of the season (between games) and see who/how the girls interact, then do the same thing at the end of the season and see what you have. A coach needs to manage the chemistry in balance with the talent.

 

[crystlemc]

I have a sneaking suspicion I know who this poster is talking about. If it is, there is a whole host of reasons not to take them on. If you know who she used to play for, call her former coaches. You will probably find this a case of, there is no talent great enough to put up with the level of cr@p you will deal with, with dad. Do your research. Don't just take dad's word.

 

[Ri-domination]

Alot of good points here, when I suggested possibly bring him onto the coaching staff it was because I would never act as if I know it all and if he's been doing it for sometime and been successful, well it's hard to argue with success. I am very pleased personally when I encounter quality coaching that is open to new ideas, points of view, new tactics, game plans/training, ect. With that being said there are alot of good points as to why it wouldn't be a good idea. Hypotheticals are kinda hard to deal with, who knows though the guy may be a wealth of knowledge and bring your team into a storybook season. Open mindedness my only real point.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

First off, by whose account is she the best pitcher in PA? If she is being sought-after by many SEC schools, that means she has been playing on teams(presumably good teams) that get her exposure. So why is she looking to take a step backward (no offense to the Ohio team as there are only a few I would consider top tier)?

I kind of get the dad (I was a pitchers dad myself), but then again if she was such a high caliber pitcher she must have worked with some good coaching/catchers in the past. Why does he feel the need to still be so close, maybe she is a headcase that needs to be managed. Maybe dad is just that good, but why not hook-up with a team in PA, NY, NJ?

Too many questions that I would need answers to before I could make a decision either way. If my team was having that kind of success without her and we had good chemistry, I would be very apprehensive to risk that with so many unknowns. While talent wins games, it is the team chemistry that wins championships and makes all the sacrifices worth it. JMHO

I always applied a simple little test: throw down a blanket in the grass at the beginning of the season (between games) and see who/how the girls interact, then do the same thing at the end of the season and see what you have. A coach needs to manage the chemistry in balance with the talent.

Again - I think the PA part is clouding peoples thinking - it would be almost the same distance to travel from Pittsburgh to play for Beverly Bandits as the NJ intensity - or one of the other east coast showcase teams.
If a girl is from Washington, Beaver, Lawrence or Mercer county she is closer to most of Ohio then she is most of PA -

And perhaps she was not happy with the chemistry on the showcase teams in her area maybe they aren't playing the showcases she would like to do - The fact she is coming from somewhere else shouldn't be a factor.

If we change the scenario to a girl from the other end of Ohio rather than PA does that change your thought?

 

[GeneralsDad]

Just playing devil's advocate here, and some food for thought...

(1) I would guess that if SEC schools are interested, a pitcher would be mid 60's minimum with good stuff. If that were the case, a poorly called game would still out perform a well called game for a kid with average stuff. When you are truly throwing gas you get by with more mistakes.

(2) Winning...This is one of the best chemistry builders I have seen. Success can be contagious.

(3) Most (not all) people on this forum have ever seen a girl cruising at a legitimate 68 mph. with a nasty change and great movement. I believe many would change their minds if they had.

(4) I believe the OP said the only requirement was the father calls the pitches. Everything else sounded like they were accepting of what the coach thought was the best role for her. I have seen bad players on bad teams demand a lot more than this. There are examples of this all the time on this forum.

(5) If a real pitcher of this caliber came along I think it would be short sighted for a coach to dismiss her immediately for losing a little control. Maybe an addition like this could take a really good team to a nationally competitive level. Exposure like that would be beneficial to everyone on the team. Of course a good coach would do his/her homework and check the back story.

Long story short - I would not say yes or no. I would say maybe, but let's take a closer look. Then again, I am not a coach and would never have to make this decision.

 

[FastBat]

Do me a favor and call my kids pitches, lol! No parent should be calling pitches, it's just awkward. This dad sounds pretty demanding and needs to get a life! Let the players work together and call the game. Two years and college starts, would she be ready??? I've seen 10u's that actually aren't bad at anticipating the next pitch call. I'd pass!

 

[CARDS]

Scenario: You are the coach of a second year 16U Gold team. You are very successful having finished top three in most tournaments in Ohio and top 20 when going out west. A pitcher shows up at your tryout. Not just any pitcher, the #1 pitcher from Pennsylvania that is being sought out by most SEC schools. She wants to join your team. This girl could take your team to a new level. The only issue is that her Dad says he has to call her pitches. He seems very nice and explains that he knows her better than anyone. He explains that he will never tell you when to play her and she can play other positions as you need. Do you allow her on your team and let Dad call her pitches? Do you send her away to another team?

So ,the team is a top 20 National team and a top 3 team in Ohio events. Sounds like there is nothing more "at the next level" you could go too with what you have unless; the tournaments that the team is currently is playing are lower tier events. If that is the case, she will not help the team get more looks since most of the top D1 (SEC) colleges will recruit from the major events and it would be a stretch to say picking up a player will get your team into major events.

Like others have stated, Why does she have to go to Ohio with some very good Penn teams out there? What was her last few teams have you talked to those coaches? What schools are actively recruiting her? What is the state of your current pitching and coaching staff?

Sometimes it may make sense for a team set up for top tier showcase ball to have a couple of highly sought after players to help the rest get looks. Especially; if a team is light on pitching but, I am not sure placing dad on an already successful coaching staff and team will not upset the chemistry that the team already has.

 

[Louuuuu]

Two thoughts come to mind:

1.) Would he want to call pitches for the entire team, or just his kid?
2.) There's no such thing as a pitcher from Pa. being recruited by the SEC...