What would you do?

ApogeeDemon

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Scenario: District High School Championship. Your starting pitcher has been late to practice three times in the season. You tell her that if it happens again, she won't play the next game. Two days before the game, she is late again. She has a note from Mom explaining that it was Mom's fault for her being late. This is possibly the last game of the season. Do you sit her the entire game? Play her? (Your second pitcher has only thrown two games and is normally your starting shortstop) (she is 0-2 as a pitcher)
 

Lenski65

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You as the coach should never say that you will give a player a game suspension as punishment. That way you keep your options open. Just tell them that there will be severe consequences for being late. That being said, I believe a coach should follow through with their word.
 

Coach E.

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Before the beginning of the season it is a good idea for the team and or the entire program to make a set of standards that the players will define. They will also define what the ramifications are if the standards are not met. This is also part of defining what your team culture will be. Usually when the players set the standards they adhere to them and they will also hold themselves accountable. If the standards are broken and the discipline is enforced early on and enforced equally then issues later in the season like this probably won't happen. It is a good idea when you set your standards everyone involved signs them. In the past I have made a poster with the teams logo and a list of standards then everyone signs it. I also have had a beginning of the year signing where the girls and parents sign a sheet with the standards listed.
 
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CARDS

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Is she late for school or practice? In some school districts they already have established consequences for tardy, absence to school and grades for in season infractions.
Now if she is late for practice this is where coaches need to have clear expectations but, also understand players may miss or be late for practice and team meetings for a variety of reasons.

High School Coaches need to have a policy in place for the following circumstances:

If practice is several hours after school and the players do not drive and must rely on parent or other players to get back to the school. (Some schools like ours do not allow students to stay after unless they have a teacher ok or will be with a coach).
Player is involved in school arts, band or other activities that require attendance after school for grades.
Player has to take ACT test
Players have tutoring or make up after school and practice is directly after school.
Player is in a credit recovery program and must meet with the CR team
Players that are on an IEP and must attend instructional strategies labs or has documentation for additional time for test or assignments.
Player Medical/Dental appointments (Time of life where a lot of kids have braces)
Player attends another school for CT instruction etc.
 
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Miller

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It's not always the players fault for being late. If she is dependent on mom getting her there it could have been out of her control. I have learned in a school our size to pick and choose my battles. I have expectations but you can't go overboard in high school. You hope the kids value the team enough to do the right things.

As hard as a coach tries to make everything a "black and white" issue, some grey creeps in. You always have to abide by the school policy.
 

hot corner

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As our school's old baseball coach use to say "mom and dad are not on my team you are. Don't blame your parents for being late if you want to play for me get here on time! If you are late you will be punished!" She was late 3 times already and the coach told her if you are late again you sit the next game. The last time she was late she just showed up with a not and didn't even bother to try and call the coach. She has sit.
 

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It's the "gray area" that always causes the problems and while I like to follow the rules I believe there needs to be a way to handle gray area situations as long as both parties are willing to work together. I see it so often, especially in the select sports (fastpitch is one). Families have both parents working, split parents, grandparents raising kids, foster children, single parents, and the poor kid that practically is raising herself and possibly her siblings. I'm sure I missed a few. I feel for these kids. They want to be accepted and be a productive part of the team yet nobody has time to get them to/from their practices and games.

As coaches, we cannot raise the kids or tell parents how to do it. How we feel really doesn't matter unless we have proof of physical abuse. Many schools have rules against coaches transporting the kids for any reason. This takes away an option that some summer coaches would have. Parents may have rules stating their children are not to ride with anyone else. Might sound stupid to us but again, it's not our place to tell them how to raise their kids. Some kids still are not allowed to use or have phones. Some kids are instructed not to call their parents at work unless it's an emergency. To them, after school practice is not an emergency. All of these scenerios and many more create the gray area that really needs to be considered.

If a coach is on their game and hears of a player is late because of ride issues, waste no time getting a contingency plan together with the player so everyone can work thru the situation gracefully. I never want a kid to miss out because the parents don't have the same priorities. Let's find a way to communicate and start by getting the AD on board ASAP so if outsiders without all the information start to complain about what they deem special treatment somebody can handle things in a timely manner.

Every handbook should have a special circumstances clause to allow some common sense decisions on matters like this.

Start with the player, relay info to the AD, plan a course of action, then proceed with caution. Many parents may not be aware there's an issue because the player isn't telling them everything. Many coaches may find out the player is suddenly late because of house rules broken and parents rules overpower any team or school rules. Contacting the parents directly may be an enlightening experience. Again, tread lightly till you have all the info.
 
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Miller

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daboss brings up what I'm talking about when I say gray area. In our school system we have kids that you have to worry about getting enough food, family drug use and a million other things. Not every family is as involved with their kids lives the way that most people on OFC are. I don't think every situation can always be treated the same.

I also like the comment about talking to some parents may be enlightening. I have had kids that I knew if I had to call home it would be a mess. You may be amazed at times what some kids who play h.s sports deal with at home on daily basis.
 

ech92

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There can not be a clear cut solution this issue . Every players case will be slightly different . As a few of you have already stated you do not know the home situation for each player . I my self grew up with divorced parents and my football practices were not a priority to them . They would drop me off late atleast 2 times a week and as a 10 or 11 year old kid I had zero say in getting there on time . My coach took the approach that I should have to run laps during practice every time I was late . I think this was a horrible approach as A. it cost me valuable practice time , B. It caused me to not want to go to practice , & C. It caused me to not return to play the next year . The coach could have handled this in a better way ( run me after practice or something ) . The coach needs to find out what the issue is before saying " don't blame your parents for being late " .
 

CARDS

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As our school's old baseball coach use to say "mom and dad are not on my team you are. Don't blame your parents for being late if you want to play for me get here on time! If you are late you will be punished!" She was late 3 times already and the coach told her if you are late again you sit the next game. The last time she was late she just showed up with a not and didn't even bother to try and call the coach. She has sit.

This is old school thinking but there are some coaches that still think like this.
The HS environment is much different now. Todays big school and most small school HS sports teams try several avenues to get parents to be involved in the sport or school activities and would try to stay away from verbiage that would imply they were not a welcome part of the program. EX: fundraisers, lunches for DH, score keeping, PA work, booster rep. fall and winter activities, photos, news paper reporting are all areas teams are looking for parent help with.
No matter the school you will find 2 or 3 (sometimes more players) per team that lack parent support. Thus why at our school each team must hit 85% booster membership from basic membership $25 to platinum $1000 in order for the team to be eligible for the booster stipends not 100% like some schools require.

There are also other factors I listed in an earlier post that coaches 10/15 years ago did not have to follow.
 
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hot corner

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I am sorry it is not old school I have 3 kids that play sports in school. I have a son and 2 daughters and all have rules about being late. You want to play then you have to be there on time. If they are late you don't get to blame mommy or daddy it is their fault. Oh and guess what they still want parental involvement. In this hypothetical situation she did even try to call the coach. It is called communication she didn't try she should sit. We are also not talking about a young child we are talking about a student athlete in high school.
 

CARDS

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I am sorry it is not old school I have 3 kids that play sports in school. I have a son and 2 daughters and all have rules about being late. You want to play then you have to be there on time. If they are late you don't get to blame mommy or daddy it is their fault. Oh and guess what they still want parental involvement. In this hypothetical situation she did even try to call the coach. It is called communication she didn't try she should sit. We are also not talking about a young child we are talking about a student athlete in high school.

Agreed this is most likely a hypothetical situation. However; to just have a blanket policy of your mommy and daddy does not play here and there is no excuse for missing or being late for practice is old school mentality.

I did state "there are still some coaches that have this mentality" . Over the past 5 years there is more training available to HS coaches (some now required) to help the coach develop and understand the changes in sport.

All it takes is for a student athlete to have one of the afore mentioned reasons for missing or being late and the coach failed to address the situation properly for lets say a student athlete on an IEP it could result in a rare 504 violation and the parent could bring it up to the AD or if it is a medical issue with new concussion rules that is a big one that can get a coach in hot water . Coaches should get to know their athletes just as their teachers are supposed to do and Most do....

There seems to be more and more students on an IEP and depending on how that IEP is written even their GPA may be adjusted for sport participation. If a student has an ISL lab or study hub after school as outlined in their IEP and they are late 5 to 10 min for a practice the parents/ players have some recourse.
Now for a bad home life and unsupportive parents not much can happen to the coach that have the policies that you state. We all know teams have rules to benefit the team by controlling unproductive behaviors with a consequence. Coaches need to be able to address and assess each situation to determine what consequence applies if any .
 
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hot corner

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Agreed this is most likely a hypothetical situation. However; to just have a blanket policy of your mommy and daddy does not play here and there is no excuse for missing or being late for practice is old school mentality.

I did state ?there are still some coaches that have this mentality? . Over the past 5 years there is more training available to HS coaches (some now required) to help the coach develop and understand the changes in sport.

All it takes is for a student athlete to have one of the afore mentioned reasons for missing or being late and the coach failed to address the situation properly for let?s say a student athlete on an IEP it could result in a rare 504 violation and the parent could bring up to the AD or if it is a medical issue with new concussion rules. This is another big one that can get a coach in hot water so, coaches should get to know their athletes just as their teachers are supposed to do.

There seems to be more and more students on an IEP and depending on how that IEP is written even their GPA may be adjusted for sport participation.
If a student has an ISL lab or study hub after school as outlined in their IEP and they are late 5 to 10 min for a practice the parents/ players have some recourse.
Now for a bad home life and unsupportive parents not much can happen to the coach that have the policies that you state. We all know teams have rules to benefit the team by controlling unproductive behaviors with a consequence. Coaches need to be able to address and assess each situation to determine what consequence applies if any .

Wow... are you saying being late because mommy or daddy couldn't you there on time is the same as being late because of the a school function( class, lab etc.) or injury? Because I am not, they are completely different things and are in no way comparable. It is in no way old school thinking. Being late because mommy or daddy couldn't get you there on time is not a valid excuse. Or maybe it is for you. This is the type of thinking that causes kids today have the entitlement mentality. They don't have to take responsibility for nothing and feel they are entitle to play no matter what.
 
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CARDS

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Wow... are you saying being late because mommy or daddy couldn't you there on time is the same as being late because of the a school function( class, lab etc.) or injury? Because I am not, they are completely different things and are in no way comparable. It is in no way old school thinking. Being late because mommy or daddy couldn't get you there on time is not a valid excuse. Or maybe it is for you. This is the type of thinking that causes kids today have the entitlement mentality. They don't have to take responsibility for nothing and feel they are entitle to play no matter what.


Not at all please re-read my post...
I was just replying to your original post that was more of a blanket statement about how your coach handled these situations with a wide brush.

In this case, all the needed information was not disclosed for a coach to make a decision. Why was the player late the other three times? Mom writes a note stating it is her fault for the player being late what did the note say?
Does the player have any other concerns that the coach needs to factor in? These are all unknowns in this situation and need to be factored in before consequences are delivered.

Now, if it is a player just skipping out on practice or showing up late it is up to the coach to know his athletes. These type of players generally have little support from their teammates and for the most part are not one the players the coach relies on.
If the player is a true player and teammate but, has deadbeat parents the coach has to understand this as well.
Do you actually feel that a student athlete that does not have parental support equals an entitlement mentality of that athlete???? As Tom Jackson or Keyshawn Johnson would say "Come on man"
 
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LADY_KNIGHTS

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Scenario: District High School Championship. Your starting pitcher has been late to practice three times in the season. You tell her that if it happens again, she won't play the next game. Two days before the game, she is late again. She has a note from Mom explaining that it was Mom's fault for her being late. This is possibly the last game of the season. Do you sit her the entire game? Play her? (Your second pitcher has only thrown two games and is normally your starting shortstop) (she is 0-2 as a pitcher)

I being the coach would stick to my guns and follow through with my punishment and make the decision to sit her. I would then get the team together, minus the pitcher, and talk to them about the pros and cons of my decision and letting them know why I felt it was important to make that decision. At that point the team and I would have a discussion where I would then take feedback from the players on the team that were being directly affected by my decision...seeing if we together could reach a final decision that was based upon everyone's feedback and in the best interest of everyone involved.
 

hot corner

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[/U]

Not at all please re-read my post...
I was just replying to your original post that was more of a blanket statement about how your coach handled these situations with a wide brush.

In this case, all the needed information was not disclosed for a coach to make a decision. Why was the player late the other three times? Mom writes a note stating it is her fault for the player being late what did the note say?
Does the player have any other concerns that the coach needs to factor in? These are all unknowns in this situation and need to be factored in before consequences are delivered.

Now, if it is a player just skipping out on practice or showing up late it is up to the coach to know his athletes. These type of players generally have little support from their teammates and for the most part are not one the players the coach relies on.
If the player is a true player and teammate but, has deadbeat parents the coach has to understand this as well.
Do you actually feel that a student athlete that does not have parental support equals an entitlement mentality of that athlete???? As Tom Jackson or Keyshawn Johnson would say "Come on man"

I painted nothing with a wide brush I answered the question based on what the OP wrote. Being late because mommy couldn't get her there time is not a valid excuse. You assumed more than what was put forth. You started talking about all these other reason she might be late. Injury, class labs etc, the OP said because mom was running late. She didn't call the coach, she brought a note saying she was late because of mom. The coach warned her and told her if she was late again she would sit. She should sit.

Now if you are trying to say my comment is painting with a wide brush I wide disagree again. Being late because mommy or daddy can't get you there on time is not a valid excuse. It is the player responsibility to communicate with the coach. You call, you try and find a ride you don't bring a note.

Why do you keep making things up? Show where I said lack of parental support equals an entitlement mentality.
By the way "Come on man" was started by Chris Carter
 

MD 20/20

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My opinion on this is simple in my mind....

I have a HS Sophomore, an 8th grader and a 4th grader and they all have activities, some within the school and some out. As a parent, you have to sit your kids down and prioritize, and let all coaches/advisers of your priorities. This isn't always an easy conversation with the ones who are not at the top but it needs to be had up front so that there are no surprises.

As a coach, NEVER make a threat that you are not willing to carry out. It sounds like that if this coach did not sit this girl that they cut their own legs out. I also hate hearing about the "grey area". That is a bunch of bull. Part of the problems with todays athlete is the lack of discipline that they are required to possess. It's the "grey area" that usually gets a coach into hot water. The why's in each situation do not matter. Why were you late? Why didn't you call? They don't matter. That ship has sailed. If you don't sit her, the entire team knows that their leash just got significantly longer.


My 8th grader plays Volleyball. I'm not a big supporter of his, but has a rule. If you miss the practice before a game, you sit the game. NO EXCUSES It's one of the few things I like......Why does he have to compartmentalize all the "excusable" and "non-excusable" absences.
Dr appt.=OK Went home sick=NOT OK

I'm all for being involved with my team and I truly care about each girl and their outside softball activities, but that's just me. I do not expect my DD's volleyball coach to check on her. He has 12 other girls on the team.

And to my last point, I would be curious why mommy wrote the note for this senior, who has attendance issues. My guess is they both knew she was at the end of her leash and this would most-likely be her last game. In my mind this is a simple case of this girl thinking HER last game in HS was more important than the coaches rule of practice attendance. Which is the biggest problem with scholastic sports today. It has all become about personal accomplishment over team accomplishment. If you did an anonymous pole, I'm sure you would find the scale tipped to the side of going 3-3 in a TEAM loss over 0-3 in a TEAM win.
 

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1. Never, ever make a rule that you won't enforce.

If you take a stand then you have to live with it, High School District Finals or the second JV game it makes no difference.

I have held-up practice waiting for that one late player to get on the field and then kept them over the same amount of time and never said a word. The player gets the message. The team delivers it. Benching your starting pitcher when you don't have a second doesn't send the right message and the team agrees that you are the idiot.
 

daboss

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I'm a little surprised at some of the later posts after my original and since I'm challenged when it comes to quotes I'd like to simply resond with my opinion on a few things I've read.

While others mention to not have a rule you don't plan to enforce I agree but even handbooks or team rules list exceptions or they simply forgot to list them and you can expect somebody to amend it later. Dr. visit being acceptable while going home sick is not. This is an example of an exception to a rule stating if you miss you sit. Somewhere in the fine print excuses ARE allowed. This is just common sense. Common sense thinking is what we are campaigning for, not exceptions or deviations from rules that would make them seem without merit. In the original post the girl had already missed at least 1 practice before for the same reason. That's when the coaching staff should have jumped on board and handled it.

Senior in high school or in her Kindergarten class, some kids are reluctant to tell anyone about their situation because they are embarrassed or afraid of the outcome. Bad kids with no excuse should be dealt with as the rule is intended but a kid that has been a rock for her team in the past is suddenly thrust into a situation she has no control over should not feel the wrath of God due to a rule that others say should never be broken. If you are that hard liner about it there should be no excuses including Dr.'s visit or school function. you miss you sit. No exception. Cut out the drill sergeant mentality. This is not a case of entitlement. Entitlement is a different scenerio with a kid taking advantage of her position on the team or creating a situation that she can take advantage of. Each and every situation demands careful evaulation so you do the right thing.

Somebody mentioned they would allow the team to interject and expect them to help decide what should be the right punishment if any. While I admire this coach from afar because of the past posts I've read, I don't agree here. I don't believe the team can be mature and unbiased enough to make a decision on the matter. Perhaps getting some feedback from them before making a decision but again you need to be careful what information you share with them. You may be violating a rule yourself or breaking a trust that could be damaging. I believe it best be left for the coaching staff to discuss and make a level-headed decision on how to handle the matter.

While some may believe a senior SHOULD be responsible for her actions, as long as they live under someone else's roof they still may not have total control of things. My guess is the hard-liners that think this is a black and white situation may fall under the same category as the ones that have house rules that keep their own child from doing what they believe to be in their best interest. Others may think that because of their situation they shouldn't be playing sports or on a team of any kind. Stay home and deal with life, we good people can handle playing ball without you. It seems so unfair but do they have a point? Not my way of thinking. I'll give anyone a chance--------maybe 2.

There is a post I can relate to that makes sense to me. If a questionable in character player has a problem with getting to practice or games on time, they mentioned holding up practice till they arrived, then making them stay later as a team. The girls will most certainly send a message and police their own but be careful it doesn't disrupt the harmony in the dugout and have an everlasting effect on team spirit. My personal favorite of punishment was to run sprints (home to 1st or home to 2nd) after practice for the offender. I would then offer to the rest of the team if they felt they'd like to support their teammate and keep the team spirit intact, they could run with her as a sign of unity. If the girls dropped their gloves and joined her, you know you're doing the right thing and quite possibly they know more about why the girl missed than you do. Only then will I assess the number of sprints. It might be less due to the support and interaction. Curbs the embarrassment while unifying the team. Another life lesson learned.
 
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OH Scrappers

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The problem with this situation is that the coach made the statement that if she was late one more time she was to not play. That comment came back to bite him and I would think that he would have to follow through on not playing her or he will never have any authority for any returning players. When I starting coaching my daughter's school team, it would drive me insane with players being late. We would talk about it as a team and I told them they had to be on time or they would have to run. I called a parent meeting and took a good 15 minutes to explain being on time so that the entire team could begin practice together. The lateness did stop except for a couple of kids, who I made run and when I spoke to these couple of kids about being late they basically told me that they relied on their parents to drive them to practice. I spoke to those parents and was basically told that they are doing their best to get their child to practice on time. Daboss is correct it can't be black and white, these couple of late kids wanted to be on time to practice, but it was out of their control. But in this OP the coach made it a black and white situation and in this case he has to not play her.
 
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