Pitching and Pitchers Discussion when do u learn a third pitch?

[default]

dd is 12 and making huge strides this off season. pc has mentioned a third pitch as she is currently just fastball and change. my thought is to master spotting the fastball with good velocity and be able to regularly throw the change around the zone before moving to a third. im a firm believer in enforcing and buying into the art of changing speeds before going to a drop, curve or whatever. thoughts?

 

[default]

I would say focus on mastering the off speed, even at the higher age levels the off speed pitch causes the most problems with good hitters especially when there is a 10 to 20mph difference and you can't tell when it's coming.
A 3rd pitch to learn that is easy and effective is the peel drop. It is somewhat of an off speed also but is thrown out of the zone to get batters to chase it. Thats how I did it with my DD.

 

[default]

A 3rd pitch to learn that is easy and effective is the peel drop. It is somewhat of an off speed also but is thrown out of the zone to get batters to chase it. Thats how I did it with my DD.

Good idea to start working on another pitch. Peel drop is relatively easy to learn compred to other pitches.

 

[default]

DD pitching coach didn't even bother introducing screw and rise until she hit a certain velocity. But before that it was Fast, Change, Roll-over drop, then curve. PC suggested not using in a game unless she can get 8/10 during practice of that particular pitch.

 

[default]

Not until she has mastered her change up and spotting her fastball. I hate when pitchers tell me they can throw 5 pitches but can't hit their spots with the fastball and don't throw hard enough to make anything move.

 

[default]

amen klump...hence why I started the thread. u said what I was trying to say...

 

[default]

I think breaking pitches should be INTRODUCED into PRACTICE early in the development stage, but as Klump said they should only be USED[/I ]in game situations after they are mastered.
Learning pitches IMHO can take years to master, so why not teach them all if the student is willing to listen, look and learn?
True, a pitcher may say that she has 5 pitches, but only 2 work, but it doesn't mean that the effectiveness of the other three isn't right around the corner.

 

[default]

Not until she has mastered her change up and spotting her fastball. I hate when pitchers tell me they can throw 5 pitches but can't hit their spots with the fastball and don't throw hard enough to make anything move.

I agree. I may show a student different pitches but our main focus during all pitching sessions are hitting spots with velocity and establishing a reliable change up. If I see the girl getting bored I'll show her something but it normally takes an entire season plus time in the winter to develop a pitch that is reliable enough to use regularly in a game.

I strive for 70% in game situations. Some girls are gym pitchers and achieve this goal practicing but fall apart with a batter, umpire, and a host of other distractions. That's why I challenge them to mature in the heart and mind while pitching with me during the winter. I try to help them in the learning curve by simulating game situations throughout the practice session.

For a talented player that willing to practice, my goal would be to achieve the fastball and be working on a change up the 1st year, develop a solid change up and show her 2 more the 2nd year, 3rd year a drop and curve, and 4th year a screw and riseball. If they start with me at 10 years old, they should have 3 pitches mastered to their young ability by high school freshman age. By junior year, they should be able to throw them all and be the highlight of the Kent St Camp!

Oh wait, I guess I fell asleep there for a moment. What did I write?

 

[default]

Not until she has mastered her change up and spotting her fastball. I hate when pitchers tell me they can throw 5 pitches but can't hit their spots with the fastball and don't throw hard enough to make anything move.

A local high school nearby has a sophomore pitcher who claims to have nine, (yes nine) pitches. I agree with Klump, spot the fastball, master the change, then change elevation with a drop, then look to the curve. Screwball and rise as the pitcher increase velocity.

 

[default]

Like Klump said....

When she can hit her spots with the fast ball and has an effective change up then worry about the next pitch.

Nothing wrong with starting to work on the basics of a movement pitch, but don't focus strongly on it until you've master the above pretty well.

 

[default]

Not until she has mastered her change up and spotting her fastball. I hate when pitchers tell me they can throw 5 pitches but can't hit their spots with the fastball and don't throw hard enough to make anything move.

Well said

 

[default]

Coached a team a couple of years ago ... the 3 pitchers were all going to the same pitching coach and all had the same 9 pitches, a couple of which I had never heard of previously. I didn't have a problem with the fact that they learned 9 pitches ... but did with the fact that they wanted to warm up and throw them all every game, that 5 of the pitches didn't really do anything and couldn't be thrown consistently for strikes, and the fact that they pretty much all looked the same. My DD is in her senior year of pitching in college, and has got by just fine with a medium speed fastball she spots, a drop that she gets lots of ground ball outs on, and a really good change up that she will throw on any count.

 

[default]

When she can hit her spots with the fast ball and has an effective change up then worry about the next pitch.

...hitting spots with velocity and establishing a reliable change up.

Just an effective or reliable change up? Shouldn't we also teach to hit spots with the change up before moving to a third pitch. Shouldn't we then learn to hit spots with that pitch before learning a fourth?

 

[default]

I'd say effective AND reliable, if it's not both than you shouldn't add it to the list of pitches you can throw.

You have to be able to hit your spots consistantly for ALL the pitches to be able to put them on your resume.

 

[default]

I don't see where teaching her a 3rd pitch is going to hurt. Keep it more interesting for her. Not 6 more pitches, but 1.
If she wants to & her PC says she is ready...why not?

 

[default]

These pitchers are not machines that can be set and calibrated and then move onto the next task. The utter impossibility of mastering any pitch in both speed and location before moving is just plain silly. Waiting for some magical moment that a pitcher suddenly is released to throw that perfectly mastered pitch only happens in fairy tales.

A real flesh and blood pitcher will work on a series of pitches with a goal of throwing each pitch faster, better location, better break, etc...... This is a never ending process of tiny improvements. To think that she can't learn a drop until she can hit spots is wrong. Of course she can't hit the spots, of course she can't throw it 5MPH faster with 10 more RPS. then what happens when she develops curves, adds 6 inches in height and 30 pounds? They have to keep adjusting to the new reality of their maturing body.

Give the kids a break. They certainly deserve one. Let them try the other pitches as soon as they express interest. Do you have any idea how boring practice can be throwing 200 fastballs? Perhaps she can have a little success in throwing that drop and all of sudden she is excited to try it in a game, then the coach doesn't let her because she can't hit spots with her fastball! Call the pitch with two outs and the 7th batter. Call it on the first batter with no count. You have to keep her interest up in this continuing improvement. You have to keep the kid mentally engaged. Learning a variety of pitches will help to keep the interest up. Throwing them in game, Priceless.

 

[default]

Waiting for some magical moment that a pitcher suddenly is released to throw that perfectly mastered pitch only happens in fairy tales.

Nice post. Maybe pitch #3 becomes her most effective pitch? Or maybe something with her fundamentals is noticed as she grasps a new pitch that you didn't necessarily see when she was firing 200 pitch #1's.

Maybe she gains a better knowledge of pitch selection in different situations. Even if her drop isn't quite dropping, her awareness that a situation might call for a drop, to me is a benefit to her.

IMO, as long as the pitch is physically safe on the arm to deliver, I don't see the harm in her starting to work with it.

 

[default]

I've seen too many 10u-12u pitchers who come to tryouts with 5-7 pitches listed on their forms. That's nice and ambitious and all, but when they are walking 8-12 batters in a game, they need to focus their practice time on the more important aspect of pitching and that is control. 99% of those pitchers throw their various pitches and they all look the same, nothing breaks. Spend those young developmental years learning control and then when it is time to move on to the movement pitches, it is much easier to grasp because your mechanics are sound and you have already established control. It is a waste of practice time when they are spending most of practice working on movement pitches when they are struggling to throw an accurate fastball. You can't skip from step 3 all the way to step 8, it takes time and you have to go 1 step at a time.

 

[default]

Our oldest DD had 3 differnt pitches at 10u. They were Ball, Strike and what the &@% was that.

 

[default]

When do you learn a new pitch? When the ones you are using are getting crushed. Sorry for the hijack. I just couldent help myself.

Tim