which base should runner be awarded???

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This happened in a game this weekend and there was a little confussion how to rule it.....

runners on 2nd & 3rd with 1 out
batter pops the ball up (no infield fly rule)
both runners for some odd reason take off
second baseman catches ball
runners try to return to bases after ball is caught
second baseman fires the ball to 3rd in attempt to catch the runner
ball goes wide out of play teritory before runner can get back to base

rulling on the field...
runners were awarded back to 2nd & 3rd. If the 3rd baseman would have caught the ball, the runner would have been out by 3 feet.

Let me say, this was not a certified umpire and it was not a tournament being played. This was a scrimmage, no one argued the call. This was just something unusal and there was some confussion on how to rule.

 

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Oh my gosh my rule thinking is in winter mode. Both advance one bag from position of base they were heading to at point of throw? So if they were heading back to their bases at that time the runner on second only gets 3rd?

 

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second baseman fires the ball to 3rd in attempt to catch the runner
ball goes wide out of play teritory before runner can get back to base

If the ball went out of play or the imaginary play area then the runners are awarded one base same as it would be outdoors.

 

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The one base that was awarded was the base they were running to..... back to 2nd & 3rd. Nither runner had tagged up and runner on 3rd would have been out if the fielder had of caught the ball. Why would they be awarded back to 2nd & 3rd and then be awarded home & 3rd?

 

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See that's where I am fuzzy, if they were heading back to the base they came from at the time of the thow, they weren't heading to their normal flow base, they were heading back to their base during the throw to keep from being doubled off.

That's why I say 3rd gets one base--- Home and 2cnd gets only 3rd

 

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That's why I say 3rd gets one base--- Home and 2cnd gets only 3rd

Since it was a fly ball, the runners can't advance without tagging up first correct? So if this is the case.... you are awarding the runner back to 3rd to tag up then awarding her home. Isn't that 2 bases???

 

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Nope just one, sort of like the "Nail salon" you go in and they do "One nail"

That's why we have Bretman... Put out the Bret beam!!!

 

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Each runner scores. They get two bases from the last legal base touched, and the last legal base touched is second and third, no matter whether they had gotten back to tag or not.

 

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If a runner got only one base on a throw that went out of play, the next time one of my outfielders catches a deep fly ball with a runner on second, I will just instruct her to throw the ball over the fence, thereby conceding the one base the runner would get anyway, and eliminating any chance the runner will score.

 

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Unless you guys are playing different indoor rules, all runner advance 2 bases on any overthrow, regardless of the infield, outfiled, fly ball, hit ball, the advancement is based on " the last base occupied at the time of release of the throw" therefore the runners both occupied 2nd & 3rd when the ball was released, I know what you are thinking they left the bag and they have to go back to tag... you are correct however that is an appeal play, they LEGALLY occupied 2nd & 3rd respectively unless they are properly appealed and actually that is what the fielder was trying to do (Make a live ball appeal) regardless of what direction they were going etc. They should both have been awarded Home based on the 2 base award. Now they must go back and touch or tag up properly if they were awarded and didn't go back to tag they could be called out with a proper appeal.
I hope this helps 2 bases from everywhere, no 1 base + 1, no the base they were going to etc. etc. that was changed several years ago to stop the confusion but,apparently it hasn't
Again unless you are doing something different inside on overthrows i.e. if you are awarding 1 base instead of the standard 2, then they would have been awarded 3rd & home and still would have to return to tag up
One more note on "the time of the release of the throw" it really didn't matter here but, in some cases it does matter.... it is not when the ball goes out of play but, rather the position of the runners when it is thrown i.e. attempted double play in the infield and the batter-runner hadn't reached 1st and the ball is thrown out of play the batter-runner is awarded 1st & 2nd since the last base legally occupied at the time of the throw was not 1st.

This happened in a game this weekend and there was a little confussion how to rule it.....

runners on 2nd & 3rd with 1 out
batter pops the ball up (no infield fly rule)
both runners for some odd reason take off
second baseman catches ball
runners try to return to bases after ball is caught
second baseman fires the ball to 3rd in attempt to catch the runner
ball goes wide out of play teritory before runner can get back to base

rulling on the field...
runners were awarded back to 2nd & 3rd. If the 3rd baseman would have caught the ball, the runner would have been out by 3 feet.

Let me say, this was not a certified umpire and it was not a tournament being played. This was a scrimmage, no one argued the call. This was just something unusal and there was some confussion on how to rule.

 

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Ball thrown out of play, baserunners are awarded 2 bases.

 

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Each runner scores. They get two bases from the last legal base touched, and the last legal base touched is second and third, no matter whether they had gotten back to tag or not.

correct call

 

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there has never been a rule that states the base your going to plus one......

 

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Parma,

ASA says 2 bases no matter where runner is. USSSA says base you are going to plus one on overthrow---not sure how other associations rule this situation.

 

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I just re-read it and I most defintely got it wrong earlier. One of those where you see the words, but you mind makes them say what you want them too. LoL

2 bases awarded on a ball that goes out of play.

 

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Oh my gosh my rule thinking is in winter mode. Both advance one bag from position of base they were heading to at point of throw? So if they were heading back to their bases at that time the runner on second only gets 3rd?

So theoretically it would be two bases, but I was looking as if the one they were going back to was one of them.....

 

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I'll throw in my two cents and agree with everybody that said the runners get two bases. The two bases are determined by the runner's position when the throw left the fielder's hand.

When the ball becomes dead, the runners are still required to correct their baserunning mistake (leaving early on the catch) before completing their base award. They would still need to go back and retouch second and third before advancing to home. If they don't, they would be subject to appeal by the defense for leaving early.

That ruling is going to work for most rule sets (high school, ASA, NSA, NCAA, etc). USSSA does have a slightly different interpretation, but on this play the end result would be the same- both runners score.

The USSSA fastpitch rule is that if runners have have left early on a catch, then the ball is thrown out of play, the runners are awarded two bases from whichever base they were on at the time of the pitch, not from their position at the time of the throw. End result on this play would still be both runners awarded home.

USSSA slow pitch is different. Their slow pitch rules state that it is still two bases, but the base left early is counted as the first base of the award. If you were playing USSSA slow pitch (I assume you weren't) the runner on third would be awarded home and the runner on second would get third. I believe that they are the only rule set that still rules it that way, with the base the runner is obligated to go back and touch counting as part of the base award.

In any case, putting the runners right back on the base they started from wouldn't be right- unless this indoor facility has crafted some special rule of their own to handle balls going out of play. That wouldn't be unusual at all as many indoor fields come up with different rules to accomodate the unusual field layouts.

 

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Another sceanrio; a batter strikes out and the 3rd strike is dropped, runner then proceeds to first base, thus touching the base before the catcher releases the ball and then throws the ball out of play, that said runner would be awarded 3rd base?
Did there use to be or ever was a rule, of 2 bases from the outfield and 1 base from the infield on a ball thrown out of play? (just looking at the ball out of play, nothing to do with taggin up or fly balls)

 

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Are we saying a batter strikes out and the 3rd strike is dropped, runner then proceeds to first base, thus touching the base before the catcher releases the ball and then throws the ball out of play, that said runner would be awarded 3rd base? Did there use to be or ever was a rule, of 2 bases from the outfield and 1 base from the infield on a ball thrown out of play? (just looking at the ball out of play, nothing to do with taggin up or fly balls)

In baseball, the rule for out of play throws is something like that.

If it is the first throw by an infielder, the award is still two bases on a ball thrown out of play. The difference is that on this play the award for runners is determined from the time of pitch (which base they were on when the pitch was delivered) instead of the time of throw (where they were when the ball was actually released by the fielder).

If it is a subsequent play by an infielder, or any throw by an outfielder, the award is two bases determined from the runner's position at the time of the throw.

Most of the time- but not always!- the end result of the play will be the same.

For ASA and high school softball, the award is ALWAYS based on the runner's position at the time of throw, no matter if it is a throw by an infielder or an outfielder, if it the first throw or a subsequent throw or which direction the runner is headed when the throw is made.

If I recall correctly, there are some softball rule sets that use a rule similar to the baseball rule for determining the base award- perhaps NSA and maybe USSSA. I haven't worked any games under those sanctions for a few years and have enough trouble keeping the ASA, high school softball and baseball rules separate!

Just to confuse thing a little more...even the rule sets that make the award from the time of pitch on a first throw, if the throw is made after the batter-runner reaches first base, then the award is determined from the time of the throw.

On the play you describe, the runner would be awarded third base in either baseball or softball, no matter which rule set you were using, since the throw was made after the B/R touched first base.

 

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The rule is one from the pitcher. If a pitch goes out of play its one base.

That would not be the case on a batted ball hit to the pitcher and thrown out of play on a throw to a base. Then it would be two bases.