Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!!

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I have been at 4 ASA tourneys over the last 4 weeks and and cannot believe how many umpires and coaches do not know the rules, and get ****ed when you question them or try to correct the mistake, so I'm here to vent....

1. ?There is NO EP in fastpitch, only in slowpitch. ?There is a DP/Flex though.

2. ?A courtesy runner may be used for the pitcher/catcher as long as that player has not been in the game previously. ?You can not take out a starter, and then use them later as a courtesy runner!!!
3. ?You may only bat 9 in your lineup at anytime!!!

4. ?The pitcher must take a signal or appear to take a signal with her hands apart. ?She cannot step on the rubber with her hands together, and not seperate them before her delivery!!!

5. ?A batter/runner that is obstructed at first, cannot be called out between the two bases where obstructed...this doesn't give them a free run around the bases, all the way to home!!!
6. ?A runner is not out if touched by a hit ball, after it passes a fielder!!!

7. ?You cannot put a sub in the #3 spot in the batting lineup, and then when the girl you have taken out comes up to bat, and has a 1-1 count, then be questioned about an illegal batter say..."Ooops, we really wanted to put the sub in the #8 spot."

These all have happened in the games I have been in..... Not only do I have to keep my focus on my players and the game, but I am having to train umpires and coaches about the rules of the game.....BUY AND READ THE RULEBOOK!!!

Anyone else have any interesting rules interpretations...

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

OK Shane, I got one for you.

This happened last weekend to the other 12U Heat team at the Westerville Warcat tournament and I almost choked on my walking taco.

Heat up 10-2 with 10 minutes left in the game. The Heat had 10 players rostered for that game. One was hurt and now they are playing with 9 players.

There was a play at first where there was a collision. The umpire said the first baseman raised her elbow prior to the collision and tossed her from the game. He then stated that "you only have 8 players so the game is forfeit to the other team" and walked off of the field.

I am glad I was there or there would have been another person "tossed".

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

Lady Knights,

Each one of your points are ones that an experienced umpire should know. This tells me that you might be seeng a lot of inexperienced umpires!

Umpires need to keep their noses in their rule books between games, keep up-to-date on rule changes and rule differences for different organizations, attend clinics and get as much training as possible, then as much real-game experience under their belts as they can.

For coaches, I cut some more slack. I would expect a coach to have a good basic rule knowledge. Beyond that, if a coach is not familiar with a rule during a game, I will be happy to explain it to him, then enforce the rule as I understand it and we move on.

If a coach has a problem with a rule interpretation from an umpire (as opposed to a judgement call) then you have a protestable situation. File a protest as described in the rule book and, if you are right and the umpire is wrong, the situation can be corrected.

When a coach absolutely knows that he has the rule right and the umpire is wrong, he should avail himself of any and every avenue to get it fixed. Plead your case to the umpire, file the protest if needed, see the tournament director, whatever it takes to reverse the disadvantge against your team.



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Johnnies,

Your umpire may have shown bad judgement on the play, ejecting the fielder for what he obviously must have judged malicious contact. But, from a rule standpoint, he was correct. If a team drops down to eight players due to an ejection, then the game is a forfeit.

A team may drop down to eight and take an automatic out if a player leaves due to illness or injury, but not due to ejection. (ASA rule 4-D-2-a).

Since this is the proper rule interpretation, and you cannot protest the judgement on the malicious contact, if protested and reviewed, the decision would stand.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

Point #1 -- Most coaches are volunteers and at least have that excuse for not knowing every rule, especially when the rules change from weekend to weekend having rule adjustments per tournament! Some ASA allow 10 batters . . .

Point #2 -- Most umpires get paid and should know the rules -- that is their job, but they too get confused from NSA to USSSA to ASA . . .

Point #3 -- Sounds like their are some issues with 1st base -- have seen it all season so far! I'm glad to hear one got ejected for inappropriate behavior.

Point #4 -- Venting allowed but none of us is perfect!

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

The reason so many umpires and coaches don't know the rules is that they are too lazy to read the rulebook. For umpires, who are getting paid, this is inexcusable.

What I'm running into more and more is umpires who simply do not want to be questioned in any manner. Calling time and calmly walking out to question a call is not even tolerated by more and more umpires. Many just don't want literally anything at all said, no matter how bad a call might be or how bad of an angle they might have had on a call.

Two situations just from Compuware. We had a runner stealing third who was called out by an umpire who was hustling, but clearly blocked from the play by the shortstop. He calls out and I call "time, blue" in a calm tone. As soon as I call time, the ump starts with an attitude. He hunches his shoulders, gives me a nasty look and says "there isn't anything to talk about, so I don't know why you want time." I ignore his silly rant and ask him if maybe he might have been blocked from the play and, if so, would he ask for help from the plate ump. He again takes an attitude and starts lecturing me about how he was in position and that I was implying he wasn't hustling. This went on for another 15 seconds or so, with me calmly asking him questions and him being animated and lecturing me.

In another incident at Compuware, in a game I wasn't even involved with, a coach took one step onto the field and said, "time, blue". The ump didn't acknowledge the coach. The coach asked for time 4 or 5 more times and there was no way the umpire didn't hear him. Finally the coach walks to home plate and asks for time. The umpire said he needed to be addressed as Mr. Umpire or he would not acknowledge anyone. I was sitting in the second row and the bleachers were right up against the backstop, so I heard it all. I commented to the coach that the coach had obviously forgotten that the game was all about the umpire and not about the girls. Amazingly, I wasn't tossed out of the state of Michigan.

Anyway, I am seeing a proliferation of umpires who show up with a chip on their shoulder. As these are the only people at a tournament who are getting paid, I think we have a right to demand semi-competent umpiring. We at least have a right to demand umpires who have read the rulebook and who will listen to a head coach who asks to discuss a call in a calm manner. Unfortunately, we're not getting those things in way too many cases.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

the heat player was on offense running to first base when the call was made. There was not a safety bag and the bag had been "congested" all day. The ball was hit to left field and there was not going to be a play at first but he said that was irrelevant. He stated "Our player intiated the contact and it was intentional in his opinion. " Ejection and forfeit. The other coach actually seemed to feel bad about taking the forfeit but a 7-0 loss for the Heat went in the pool play book .

The ump had also spent the first two innings talking to the pitchers from both sides about little things in their motion that he didn't think were legal as well.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

Actually the ball was a line drive to the first baseman that hit off the end of her glove and rolled toward the second baseman. The first baseman went to cover the bag and there could of been a play, but there wasn't as second didn't make a throw.

Talking with parents down the first base line, several said the runner threw an obvious elbow at the first baseman. Umpire deamed it malicious and therefore the ejection. Still one of the strangest endings to a game I have ever seen.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

To get back to the original question, I think the biggest issue is that there are so many sets of rules that both coaches and umpires have to play by. If you play/coach/ump ASA every week, then there is no excuse. But if you go to ASA one week, NSA the next, etc., it can get very confusing ... and then there are some tournaments that adopt their own rules as well. You say there is no EP in fastpitch, but in NSA there is two. And we have played at some tourneys in the past two years (can't remember which sanction) where they allowed just one. Heck, we can't even decide at 18U what distance we're pitching at.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

jwb has the answer. We need one set of rules, one organization to step up and become the King (or queen) of softball. Way too many rules differences between the various organizations and way too many tournaments setting there own "modifications". It scrambles everyones brains and noone can keep up, which leads to frustration on everyones part.

As for Joes point about umpires, this is unacceptable if you cant even talk to them. As long as you are not disrespecting them in any way, they should give you the courtesy of at least listening to your view point.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

Good post --highlights some problems in our little softball world that need addressed. Worst problem we had this year was trying to alleviate a situation where blue was over aggressive and abrasive, we tryed to move him to a field where another ump was'nt needed but he ended up insulting the other umps and was a general pain in the A$$. All I can say is he won't be asked back. MD

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

Rule differences can trip me up sometimes! While I have ASA certification, I also do a lot of FED games in the summer. There is a document available on the ASA website listing all of the rule differences between ASA and FED softball. As I recall, the document is about 20 pages long!

While the basic rules- ball/strike, fair/foul, safe/out- a pretty much the same between sanctioning bodies, there are enough differences to keep you on your toes.

Mix in USSSA, NSA, PONY, local leagues with their own rules and special rules unique to each tournament and the rule differences can sometimes trip up even a veteran umpire. If an umpire knows that he will be working a game under unfamiliar rules, he would be diligent to get a copy of the those rules and study them before the game.

Unfortunately, there will probably be just one set of rules, and one sanctioning body, the same day as there is only one fast food company, one automotive dealer or one internet provider. Each of these sanctioning bodies act as independent businesses and as long as customers are using their services they will continue to operate. As each will have it's own goals and safety practices for its participants, each will draft their own rules to suit their own needs.

But, I want to stress that even if a rule is misapplied, there is no need to blow a gasket or delay the game. Address the umpire calmly and the umpire SHOULD address the coach's questions in a like manner. If you have a clear-cut rule misinterpretation, most rule sets offer an option (the protest) to the coach to remedy the disadvantage to his team.

Umpires SHOULD address all game participants in a calm, business-like manner. One of my biggest pet peeves is an umpire with a chip-on-his-shoulder bad attitude. Unfortunately, all the rules training in the world won't help these guys, as we are dealing with personality issues, not rule knowledge.

Umpires need to check their egos at the door when they step onto the field.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

everyone complains about high school umpires, at least they go to class 5 times per year to learn the rules whether they pay attention or not is up to them
the last 2 weekends in toledo to me it seems like a bunch of slowpitch umpires, one person takes a test and the others copy off that one
no difference in usssa, asa, nsa, they have all been horrible this year
just like LadyKnights says you cant say a word without them being offended
so before i complain about another high school umpire again i will think about this summer

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

I personally think some do it for the $. Not for the love of the game.

Ex... In my umpire class for HS there were 5 umpires that umpired Football, Basketball and their comment to me was " Now I can make $ in the summer too. A couple of them thought that a foul ball after two strikes was a strikeout.

I carry my rule books where ever I go. They are always in the house or in the car. You never know when you will get a chance to read it or look up a rule. There has not been a game this year that I have not though during the game of something I wanted to look up when my game is over.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

I join in about the last post. We have increased the amount of teams playing so now we needed more umpires. The problem is they are not trained and do not have the game experience that we were use to. I have ran into more this year that have no idea how to apply the rules. I carry my case book and when I try to explain to them the correct call., they don't want to here it. Westerville, don't get me started. We were called for leaving early, because the girl rocked and was in motion. They had 6 foot batter's boxes on the field we played on and wanted to enforce the batter's box. You would at least think they could line the field right.

 

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I know this is about how bad some umpires can be, and trust me we have had our share this year thus far. However, this past weekend in Eastlake we had a crew of umpires in from Dayton and they did a phenomal job. Most games only had one umpire (until the final four and championship games we had two and four in the very final game) and they were the best umpires we have had in a very long time. Hats off to them!

Marie
Lasers Orange

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

JoeA1010

We had this "Mr Umpire " in one of our games. I got one of the many foul balls at Compuware and called BLUE,BLUE< BLUE and he never responded. He came up to me and said you may address me as Mark( his first name) or Mr. Umpire.
So I preceeded to say I don't know you that well and heres the ball MR. UMPIRE and then under my breath ***hole.
He was even worse when he was on the bases. At one time we had three foul balls come on our field and he screamed at my first base coach to get rid of the ball. We should have put it where the sun doesn't shine.

All and all the umpiring at Compuware was good. It does amaze me that Michigan Umpire get the Compuware games. Just leaves it open for the thoughts of home cooking. Use the Canadians for their game!!!!

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

We have been to other ASA tournaments have always been allowed to bat 10 players. ?We were at ASA Qualifier in Willoughby 2 weeks ago and batted 10 players. ?We were at the GFOD tournament and the homeplate umpire was the worst I have ever seen. ?We reported him during the ?Championship game and made the decision to continue to play the game. ?Each tournament has their own rule adjustments and it is confusing and sometimes the rules are not clear. ?The GFOD rules were unclear about the number of batters, we inquired at the beginning of the tournament and were told it was okay. ?I believe it was a misunderstanding. ?The biggest issue was with the umpire, not the coaches, the game is about the girls and not the coaches or the umpires. ?It is heartbreaking to watch an umpire try and take the game away from the girls. ?It is tragic for a team to lose this way and it is even more tragic for a team to win this way. ? All of our coaches are unpaid volunteers and do it for the love of the girls, they give up their time, they spend countless hours on the ball fields after working 10-12 hours a day or more at their regular jobs, they give up vacations and weekends. ?Coaching is a tough unpaid job, but with many non-monetary rewards. ?Umpires are paid officials and need to conduct themselves as such. ?Coaches should not bash each other but respect each other for the devotion they have to their girls.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

If you are playing in an ASA National Qualifier, they are bound to follow ASA rules as printed, without deviation. The Official Rules are written to cover play in any tournament that has national implications. Deviating from those rules is not an option.

Local leagues, or tournaments with no national implications, are free to modify or adopt any rule as they see fit.

The printed rule states that for fastpitch nine players bat in ASA tournament play. If this was a Qualifier, they should have been using that rule.

 

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We had a tournament this weekend where our pitcher could not buy a strike if the ball was not directly down the middle of the plate. Of course this concerns you because if you are forced to throw a ball down the middle everytime the pitcher is going to get hurt. In fact our pitcher was hit twice with line drives in this game.

Any how after the game a concerned parent approached the umpire and actually said that a tight zone like that was going to get someone hurt. This really was done in a good manner and the umpire took it that way and said he understood and agreed with the concern. The kicker to it was the umpire stated that the pitcher had so much movement on the ball that he could not pick it up and therefore he had to call balls. Pretty scary but I at least the umpire was honest and it sure makes me feel like he has done nothing but 10u and 12u games if he has never seen much movement on a pitch.

This is where proper training and lots of game experience is important because really a umpire without good knowledge could get one of these girls hurt.

 

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Re: Why don't Umpires and Coaches know the rules!!

I understand that there are many different sanctioning bodies, with many different rules interpretations, and alot of the teams and umpires are trying to do both.

I get upset and frustrated, when you approach either a coach or umpire, to let them know of a rules misinterpretation, and they get defensive. ?Furthermore, after you point out that they have interpreted the rule wrong, they won't change there call.

I realize and understand the protest rules....but why would I want to protest, when your winning a game, or even losing a game, and take the chance that the UIC or TD are as clueless as the umpire, and lose my protest fee. ?

Joe and others addressed the real problem with the short fused umpires. ?I'm just looking for umpires that you can work with, and not be so defensive. ?We all make mistakes, just be willing to admit it and take the necessary steps to correct the problem.