Your Team-"A" or "B"

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this is a baited thread....

I have my own position on the subject of how your team is sanctioned. NOW, not being an expert in knowing every/all individual affiliation requirements for sanctioning... what determines how "you" register your team?

From memory, ASA simply stated:
If you have tryouts="A" sanctioning
Rec league team or Rec All-Star Team = "B" Sanctioning

Forgive me if I didn't recite it perfectly. Want to kick off some discussion...

 

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I'll bite. Alot of your first teams at said age bracket usually go "B". There are some teams out there who have the talent and go "A". The 11u Doom last year played "A" ball last year and did very well. Then there are teams who are well....Sandbaggers....Trophy Hunters....ect. I believe if you have the talent go where the competition is.

Mike

 

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I'll bite. Alot of your first teams at said age bracket usually go "B". There are some teams out there who have the talent and go "A". The 11u Doom last year played "A" ball last year and did very well. Then there are teams who are well....Sandbaggers....Trophy Hunters....ect. I believe if you have the talent go where the competition is.

Mike

Stated very well mstbozz! In 2008 was the first year we ever put together a Travel Team which is made up of all Rec. Players, and so of course played in "B". And again this year 2009 when we move up to 14U and again we'll register in "B". As for the Sandbaggers...Trophy.., Hunter... we ran into a few of those also in some games.

Ahh! Let them have the Trophies, we're in for the Experience. Actually when we play against teams that are better then us, sure we may have lost the game to them. But we walked away with a lot more then a piece of metal on a wooden base.

They gave us a free education on how to play Travel Ball and they never even knew it. So actually the team I must Thank those teams and coaches in the long run. Thanks for the Memories, Thanks for showing us how you play the game, and don't be surprised if someday we turn the tables on you. Once again I say THANKS!

FASTPITCH! Anything else and you're playing to SLOW!

 

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Well by A.S.A. rules if you play in a league that has residency requirements you are a "B" team, this includes rec allstar teams. If you do not play in a league or you do not have a residency requirement then you must play "A". Also if a player plays in a league but plays for an "A" division team in championship play, she then can not play as a "B" player the rest of the year.

Do they inforce this, very little if at all. But in the mens slow pitch leagues they sure do. In fact i believe that A.S.A is more for the mens slow pitch then any age fast pitch. Why dont they have 2 seperate rule books, one for slow pitch and one for fast pitch. Why so many rules, and new rule changes just for slow pitch, very little in the way of fast pitch.

 

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...Why dont they have 2 seperate rule books, one for slow pitch and one for fast pitch. Why so many rules, and new rule changes just for slow pitch, very little in the way of fast pitch.

you may be onto something splitting the books.... wonder if they'll figure out a way to "split" the books and then cut the ACE costs in half... I know bad joke

 

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IFA is "A" division Travel and "B" division is travel and "C" is rec with community based teams. All star rec teams (best players from a few teams within their community based league) is a "B" team under IFA Standards.

"B" teams are teams that are in the odd age groups (9u, 11u, 13u, 15u 17u) and the even number age groups that have never won a tournament in 2008. You ask for honesty in this area from the coaches and hope they give it to you. In 2009 play, if a "B" team win two tourneys.. right away.. then they get reclassified to "A". I try to watch results in the OFC to make classifications. This is why it is nice to see TD's place their tournament scores in the OFC.

ASA has Gold, A and B. USSSA has A and B. NSA has A, B and C as well.

 

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OQM, I've noticed how common your "B" team layout is in other associations whether written in black-n-white or not.

 

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I will only enter my team in "A" regardless of the sanction.

A number of years ago, my team was in the USSSA "A" nationals in Canton. There were only 15 teams playing A and 65 playing B. On the B list were teams that absolutely had no busisness playing at that level. In my opinion, most were trophy surfing and seeking to state "We won the USSSA nationals" without saying what level they played. BTW, it is not really my opinion, it was a fact.

 

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IFA "B" is in common with NSA and USSSA... I'm not sure, but I don't think USSSA has a rec division. But not common with ASA as an ASA "B" is like our "C" division. Supposely.

I agree Johnnies. Why play a National tournament and spend countless dollars on motels, gas, food, etc.... and they play down.

 

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Over the years my DD's team has traveled to the USSSA world series a couple times and I have seen more teams in the "B" bracket as well. I would say that many of the top teams in the "B" could have easily played in the "A" and possibly even won it. In the same respect I have noticed that a number of the teams that entered the "A" group had no business being there. I hesitate to accuse any teams of "trophy surfing" because we can never know what everyone intentions actually were but I have always felt that any team who attends a national tournament and does well deserves it. It is not easy to make it to the end of any national tournament at any level and the kids deserve credit for getting it done. Not every team is built to attend the true nationals. Many teams that classify themselves as "B" teams do so because they may be a little inconsistant. When they are playing well they can compete with some of the "A" teams, when they do not play so well then they fall in the middle of the pack in the "B" division. I especially think that younger teams benefit greatly from any level of success at a season ending tournament. Attending a so called "A" event and going 0 - 5 really accomplishes little. Success breeds success and sometimes teams start off in a "B" bracket and see where they stack up and then they move up to the "A" bracket the following year once they know. I trust that most coaches have a fair idea of what type of team they have by the time the season comes to an end. Of course its a totally different story IMHO if an "A" team plays that way all year and then plays down at the world series. This happens on rare occasion but even then I am not sure that they deserve to be scorned. The parents and players on that team will tend to see what direction the team is headed and ultimately they will decide if it is right for them.

 

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From above: ""Many teams that classify themselves as "B" teams do so because they may be a little inconsistent."

That's what a trophy hunter might say isn't it? It's not right. Classifications should not be so ambiguous. Why not something like

A: Teams with over 50% or more players that have travel ball experience.
B: Available but not required for teams with 50% or less players with no travel ball experience.
Rec: Any team that doesn't want to play one of above

Doesn't seen fair to a genuine B team, lacking in experience to have to play an experienced team looking for easy prey (cheaters).

Don't really know if this is the answer but surely the softball minds come come up with something.

 

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This is why in Oklahoma.. they have a system about this matter. Everybody enters into the tournament as the same classification. Then based on two events (and this can be at different locations) then classification can begin. Top 50% percent now are "A"... lower 50% percent is "B". But, that doesn't work in classification for ASA as their "B" is rec or community teams. And in ASA, if you declare your team as gold... you are now gold forever that year.

Classification is tough.. in any association. But, in a discussion we had awhile back in another thread about an all star rec team wanting to continue playing rec tournaments when in reality they picked the best players from their league (just like a tryout) and I refused them entry into the rec tournament I was having in Wilmington. (At the same time we had "A" and "B" separated division tournaments.

It seems that the teams in Ohio liked the idea of playing "A" and "B" tournaments that are separated. The "A" teams are looking to play the best they can get... and the "B" teams can play in competition that is more suited for their team and have a chance in winning every once in awhile instead of getting stomped on every weekend.

I listen to one person last year in a thread complaining (as he was an "A" team) going to tournaments that was filled with "B" caliber teams. He felt the competition wasn't there.

I have to agree somewhat to his theory..... and it did seem that teams liked the idea themselves....so this is why in IFA we have two divisions in our events. We hope that teams like that theory and maybe we can be the leader in having separated "A" and "B" divisions in tournaments.

I like discussions like this... it give me insight into what teams are thinking about the situation concerning sanctioning. Instead of being relaxed about it... associations should clarify their classifications and instead of allowing teams to play down just because a national event is close to home... to serve their pocketbooks... to me they lose a lot of respect in the end from the teams themselves.

 

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As a coach of a young 12U team (meaning 11U), we will be playing in a couple "B" tournaments this year, with a majority of "A". Our goal is to qualify for an "A" national. If we qualify for that, we will go to that. However, if we do not, and we qualify for a "B" tournament, we will attend that. We will be sanctioned "B" initially. At this point, I don't now that we can compete with the higher level "A" teams (Stingrays, Classics, Doom, Vipers, etc). I still want to play them, but I don't want the team's confidence destroyed constantly. We have a large number of players that haven't played a true travel schedule yet. I want to give them a taste of the upper echelon teams, but I also want them to taste success. We're not trophy hunting, but we want to be competitive.

 

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As an additional thought, after next year, we will be playing all "A". In this organization, you are expected to excel. At this point, with the youth and inexperience, I feel comfortable playing a few "B" tournaments. However, once the players learn what is expected and improve their skills, we should be competing with everyone. We won't be satisfied playing lesser competition if we can challenge the upper echelon teams. If you want to be the best, you need to beat the best.

 

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I agree with you Heat... you just can't go out and take losses every weekend but you want to play the best you can play on SOME weekends...lol.. to give the girls the taste to get better.

But, I am wondering.. if you get into an ASA "A" event you can never go back to "B" according to a certain person holding a "B" tournament has said in their thread. But, if you are an "A" team in a "B" tournament ( and even if you don't want the "B" berth and just wanted to play )... isn't it slighting the true "B' teams that are there.

I can't wait until next fall when the discussion will be... "how come they got to play in the "B" Nationals and we didn't" and I can't wait to see that explaination.... but then again... you don't see the association heads come on here to explain anything to the softball world.

 

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I don't understand where this thread is going. Most TD's post all the teams that are playing in their event. If you dont want to play against certain teams....... THEN DON'T! Why does everyone care who is sanctioned what?

We play against some of the same teams every tournament we go to wheither it is "considered an A or a B". These are the same teams that we have beaten AND struggled against. What gives you the right to say exacly how good or bad another team is or who should be sanctioned what, especially of you DON'T EVEN COACH A TEAM!!!

Maybe you shoud worry about your tournaments and NOT what everyone else is doing!!!

 

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Quakerman,

From my understanding, you can play in an "A" tournament even if sanctioned "B". However, if you win or get an "A" birth, you cannot attend the "B" nationals. Once again, you are correct in not getting any firm information from the sanctioning bodies. And, why would you want to attend the "B" nationals if you qualified "A"? I know the answer to that for some teams, but that doesn't fly with me.

 

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From above: ""Many teams that classify themselves as "B" teams do so because they may be a little inconsistent."

That's what a trophy hunter might say isn't it? It's not right. Classifications should not be so ambiguous. Why not something like

A: Teams with over 50% or more players that have travel ball experience.
B: Available but not required for teams with 50% or less players with no travel ball experience.
Rec: Any team that doesn't want to play one of above

Doesn't seen fair to a genuine B team, lacking in experience to have to play an experienced team looking for easy prey (cheaters).

Don't really know if this is the answer but surely the softball minds come come up with something.

I'm not really sure what a "trophy hunter" would say. I'm not the one who made that comment, I just commented on it.
I will say that my comment about "B" teams being less consistent the an "A" team is pretty accurate. I think that is one of the things that make them a "B" team instead of an "A" team. In my opinion an "A" team should have no excuses for laying an egg during a game. They should have an expected level of consistency therefore they would be considered an "A" team. Of course there are all different defintions about what a "B" team actually is. ASA says one thing and USSSA and NSA say another blah, blah, blah. At the end of the day I think that teams often choose one designation or another because thats where they feel that they fit. What I dislike is when others jump to conclusions about why these teams may have choose their particular designation. To simply imply that they are "trophy hunting" or whatever silly term is used, well that seems to be lumping everyone together when those making the accusation probably have a particular team or two in mind and just does not want to name names. I think that every team more then likely has their own unique set of circumstances and it should not really matter to others why they choose to classify themselves one way or the other. If we all just kept the stones in our own yards and let the players play the game then we would all be better off.

Lets consider this. what if we used your method of classifing teams. Useing the first method an "A" team would be classified as such if they had 50% or more travelball players from the previous year. What if all of those players stunk. None of them could hit, field or pitch. Would that "A" classification mean anything?

I have no idea what you meant in the "B" example. So I have no logical comment.

Rec: any team that does not want to play either of the above. Well what about the team who wants to challenge themselves and see where they stack up? Are they just out of luck?

Also, i think that it is a good thing every now and then for a "B" team to play an "A" team and see what they have to do to get to the next level.

 

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SDS,

I agree, let's just play ball and see where we stack up, and what we need to work on. If the players enjoy themselves, push themselves, and get better during the process, then we've done what we can. My goal this year, and any year, is to have the players want to push themselves. I tell my DD that I can't want it for her, she needs to want it for herself. I don't force her to practice, take more reps, or do anything. She has to do that on her own. I'll be there for her, but I'm not dragging her out there. I learned this lesson too late in life for my athletic career, and I wish I'd have learned it earlier. I did pretty well, but I know now that I could have achieved more. And for all you haters, I am not living vicariously through my daughter. She's much better now than I could have hoped to be at her age. SDS - can't wait to see you in the spring and introduce myself.

 

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I'm not really sure what a "trophy hunter" would say. I'm not the one who made that comment, I just commented on it.
I will say that my comment about "B" teams being less consistant the an "A" team is pretty accurate. I think that is one of the things that make them a "B" team instead of an "A" team. In my opinion an "A" team should have no excuses for laying an egg during a game. They should have an expected level of consistancy therefore they would be considered an "A" team. Of course there are all different defintions about what a "B" team actually is. ASA says one thing and USSSA and NSA say another blah, blah, blah. At the end of the day I think that teams often choose one designation or another because thats where they feel that they fit. What I dislike is when others jump to conclusions about why these teams may have choose their particular designation. To simply imply that they are "trophy hunting" or whatever silly term is used, well that seems to be lumping everyone together when those making the accusation probably have a particular team or two in mind and just does not want to name names. I think that every team more then likely has their own unique set of circumstances and it should not really matter to others why they choose to classify themselves one way or the other. If we all just kept the stones in our own yards and let the players play the game then we would all be better off.

You don't get the "consistency" your talking about in Professional Sports Team. Too much to ask of kids to make it part of the criteria.. Why not use experience as a factor? Experienced travel players should be expected to be coached, trained and developed enough to play at the higher level. Inexperienced players should be given a chance to develop. If a coach can't develop his/hers players or the player doesn't develop then maybe they should go to rec. Don't know if this is fair or the answer, just throwing it out there.

Nobody "implied" that all B teams are trophy hunters only that we believe them to be out their. I don't think it's right to be "calling out" teams. I do think their should be a uniform standard to make it less ambiguous. Hopefully those that do trophy hunt will find personal shame in what they do just by it being discussed, again with-out anyone calling them out.

My DD played on a true B team for a couple months. Bunch of rec girls making the switch. We played teams that should have been playing A. I guess you are saying I should just bury my head in the sand, pretend it didn't happen. Or maybe you don't think that ever happens? I don't understand why some get so upset about this being discussed. It makes you think that maybe they are guilty of some of the silly terms mentioned, otherwise why protest so much?. Just wondering, not saying anything.