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Heat, ditto to everything you said. I could not have said it better. It will be a pleasure having your team at our event and I too am looking forward to meeting you in person.
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I am not upset, guilty, or protesting. I was replying to a statement earlier in the thread that referred to "trophy hunters". Everything else is just my opinion. I agree with what many have said on here. I just wanted to make the point that I think that many teams classify themselves honestly based on where they think that they stack up. That includes teams who classify themselves as "A" just because that what they always do, or teams that classify themselves as "B" just because that is what they always do. During the past few summers I have seen my share of teams who were classified as "A" teams get handled by teams who were classified as "B" teams. The reverse applies as well here. Just because a team is classified as an "A" team does not automatically make them one. I would also contend that I happened to see many of these "A" teams participate in what would be considered average to slightly above average tournaments and not even finish in the top 5. You see I would bet that some "B" teams are capable of having an excellent weekend. In the same respect they are also capable of having a not so great weekend. On average "A" teams would tend to have more consistent efforts more regularly. It has nothing to do with professionalism, these are teenage and pre-teen student athletes.
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Just my 2 Cents.....
Last year we focused primarily on NSA events having our sights set on going to the NSA Nationals.....we chose our season tournaments where we could play against the top shelf teams believing you only get better when you play the best.....seemed to work out for us....when deciding to go to the Nationals....our first trip....we decided to go to Peoria, IL and play in Class B NSA Nationals....the decision was based on the fact that half of our team were younger girls playing up and did not have anything to do with trophies.....in hindsight the decision was the correct decision.....as there is no way any of the teams we ran into could in any way shape or form been considered "rec" teams...the competition was awesome and the top four finishers would have been able to compete with any of the Elite teams we played during our regular season....perhaps ASA and USSSA have a different set of criteria for A, B, or C rankings but based on what we saw from NSA B tourney in Peoria, if the statement about trophy hunting is correct then I suppose the 75 teams that were there were all trophy hunters. If the criteria is different would be nice to know now as we are setting our schedule and focusing on ASA and USSSA this year.
Last year we focused primarily on NSA events having our sights set on going to the NSA Nationals.....we chose our season tournaments where we could play against the top shelf teams believing you only get better when you play the best.....seemed to work out for us....when deciding to go to the Nationals....our first trip....we decided to go to Peoria, IL and play in Class B NSA Nationals....the decision was based on the fact that half of our team were younger girls playing up and did not have anything to do with trophies.....in hindsight the decision was the correct decision.....as there is no way any of the teams we ran into could in any way shape or form been considered "rec" teams...the competition was awesome and the top four finishers would have been able to compete with any of the Elite teams we played during our regular season....perhaps ASA and USSSA have a different set of criteria for A, B, or C rankings but based on what we saw from NSA B tourney in Peoria, if the statement about trophy hunting is correct then I suppose the 75 teams that were there were all trophy hunters. If the criteria is different would be nice to know now as we are setting our schedule and focusing on ASA and USSSA this year.
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Maybe some "B" teams are inconsistant because they are not being pushed and forced to focus. If a B team is capable of hanging with the A teams providing they are playing at the top of their game, then I believe the coach should play A level at tournaments to force them to focus and play at their highest personal level. Coaches are doing an injustice to the girls if they are not making the players push themselves to succeed. Some B teams have no reason playing in A tournaments, but if a coach has an A quality team but plays B because he or she feels their team is inconsistent, then the problem is with the coaches, not the players. Push them. Make them focus. Make them better.
Len
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I think that some just associate 'B' classification is all the same in every organization which it is not. Clearly it is not. In ASA, according to their guidelines, "B" is community based rec teams that play in a league. ASA "A" is for all travel teams and "Gold" is for the above average travel teams.
But USSSA "B" and ASA "B" are not even close to being the same when it comes to classification. No where close. ASA makes everybody in travel an "A" classification and giving the above average their own choice in going "gold" to go to Gold events. They leave that up to the individual coaches.
But USSSA "B" and ASA "B" are not even close to being the same when it comes to classification. No where close. ASA makes everybody in travel an "A" classification and giving the above average their own choice in going "gold" to go to Gold events. They leave that up to the individual coaches.
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This is where there is a problem. You are intrerperting the rule as saying this, no where in the rule does it say "community based rec teams". All it says is that the players all participate in the same league. If your going to quote the rule then quote it correctly.
On Page 57 under 507 (B) Team Classifications it states: A team, who has been classified in any division of play during the previous year, will remain the same classification during the current season until reclassified by their respected Classification Board
507 (B) 02. A junior olympic Class B team may participate in a class A National Qualifiers. Participation in a higher classifacation could affect the team's classification.
Page 59 Girls Class "B" Fast Pitch
Teams and players who participate in Class "A" tournaments or higher that lead to a National Championship Finals...shall not be eligible to participate in the Class B competition. Girls Class "B" teams must be made up of players who participate in the same league.
You can interpert the rule anyway you want but if your gonna quote it....... quote it correctly!!!
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coachSDS thanks for posting those statements from ASA. I think that with respect to the portion of that rule ASA talks about a "B" team having to be in the same league then that excludes most travel ball teams if they do not play in any type of league at all. I have been trying for some time now to get an answer to the question "what constitutes a league". Must it be like some kind of local league, or can it be a league that travel teams often participate in during the summer? I do not have the answer to that question.
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So......, if all members of your team participated in lets say a fall league, and/or a spring/winter indoor league, does that make them ASA "B" eligible?
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I don't think anyone ever questioned team classification until Quakerman started his newest organization. Whats fair for each is fair for all. My team took there lumps last season playing what was supposed to be a "B" schedule. We felt honored to play and at the end of the season compete with the best. We played the Wave, Lady Irish, Static, Doom, Thunder, Bustos, EMR, Valley Storm, Vipers, Indiana Elite, etc. I could have taken my team to some lesser tournaments and won alot more games but we chose to play the best.
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Well, the ASA rules does say community based teams who play in a league.
It's not just me who question the "B" status of teams entering the qualifying events in Ohio. Look in Coaches Corner thread as the discussion started there as well.
It has nothing to do with me and my new organization, Chris. It has to do what is fair to all the other ASA "true B" teams from the other states who play by the guidelines set forth in ASA who are expected to come to Dayton and play in the Eastern Regional.
"B" for ASA is not "B" for USSSA or NSA. Not even close.
It's not just me who question the "B" status of teams entering the qualifying events in Ohio. Look in Coaches Corner thread as the discussion started there as well.
It has nothing to do with me and my new organization, Chris. It has to do what is fair to all the other ASA "true B" teams from the other states who play by the guidelines set forth in ASA who are expected to come to Dayton and play in the Eastern Regional.
"B" for ASA is not "B" for USSSA or NSA. Not even close.
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Tim,
I got my information from the ASA 2009 rule book. I'm not going to beat this thing into a bush but what I quoted is what it says.
IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT COMMUNITY BASED TEAMS WHO PLAY IN A LEAGUE.
If you found it somewhere else, plase let us all know where you found it.
As for whats fair for all the other teams, they know what teams are playing. If they don't want to compete with them then they don't have to. I don't understand why all of a sudden you care who is sanctioned what. Teams have played the way they are play for how long now????? Just let it go. You won't even be in Dayton. Does this tournament conflict with one of yours? I'm trying to understand here but I just can't......... THEY'RE NOT YOUR TOURNAMENTS!!
I got my information from the ASA 2009 rule book. I'm not going to beat this thing into a bush but what I quoted is what it says.
IT DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT COMMUNITY BASED TEAMS WHO PLAY IN A LEAGUE.
If you found it somewhere else, plase let us all know where you found it.
As for whats fair for all the other teams, they know what teams are playing. If they don't want to compete with them then they don't have to. I don't understand why all of a sudden you care who is sanctioned what. Teams have played the way they are play for how long now????? Just let it go. You won't even be in Dayton. Does this tournament conflict with one of yours? I'm trying to understand here but I just can't......... THEY'RE NOT YOUR TOURNAMENTS!!
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My experience has always been that it is tough to find tournaments that are strictly "A" or "B".
Of course you have the tournaments like Stingrays, GAPSS, Compuware and some others here in Ohio that primarily have "A" teams in them. Some have top level "B" teams that are pushing themselves and few if any of these types of events have mid to low level "B" teams.
On the other hand most of the other tournaments take a pretty good mix of both "A" and "B" teams and they do not always have enough of either one to effectively seperate them and have a quality experince for both. So they mix them up and everyone plays. Of course the better teams in these events typically win because surprise they are better. Howevere like edgeoo mentioned above his team played in some of the tournaments that had a nice mix of teams last year and he played some quality teams. I'm sure that his players got better and now they know what it takes to make that next step. This is always the way it has been and I think it always will be.
Many tournaments are run by organizations and they use them as fundraisers. If they try to please some and make it only an "A" or only a "B" tournament then they risk keeping some teams away and ultimately reducing the size of their tournaments. Therefore reducing the size of their fundraiser. Most of us in the softball community understand and accept this as a necassary evil. If there was a way to effectively change it or to all work together then that would be great. I do not see this happening because again most who run these events are volunteers and it is not their jobs. They work hard and they do their best to give the visiting teams a great tournament. They do not have countless hours to coordinate with every other TD in the state to make sure that we all run a proper number of "A" , "B", and even "C" level tournaments. It is wishful thinking at best and not really practical at all.
Thats why it is important that each team understand what their own level is and what they are trying to accomplish that season and pick the tournaments that they will attend accourdingly. You have to know where you fit in and what you are trying to do.
I have countless teams contact us about our tournaments and they ask what level of talent each of the teams enter have or do not have. I tell them as honestly as I can, based on what I know of each team and then they can decided. I don't want a "C" level team coming in and getting crushed and having a bad experience for example. In the same respect if there is a very good "A" level team coming in then I want to be sure that I have the type of competition that they are typically looking for. Its not always perfect but it does work for the most part if you are aware of most teams and what level they tend to be.
Of course you have the tournaments like Stingrays, GAPSS, Compuware and some others here in Ohio that primarily have "A" teams in them. Some have top level "B" teams that are pushing themselves and few if any of these types of events have mid to low level "B" teams.
On the other hand most of the other tournaments take a pretty good mix of both "A" and "B" teams and they do not always have enough of either one to effectively seperate them and have a quality experince for both. So they mix them up and everyone plays. Of course the better teams in these events typically win because surprise they are better. Howevere like edgeoo mentioned above his team played in some of the tournaments that had a nice mix of teams last year and he played some quality teams. I'm sure that his players got better and now they know what it takes to make that next step. This is always the way it has been and I think it always will be.
Many tournaments are run by organizations and they use them as fundraisers. If they try to please some and make it only an "A" or only a "B" tournament then they risk keeping some teams away and ultimately reducing the size of their tournaments. Therefore reducing the size of their fundraiser. Most of us in the softball community understand and accept this as a necassary evil. If there was a way to effectively change it or to all work together then that would be great. I do not see this happening because again most who run these events are volunteers and it is not their jobs. They work hard and they do their best to give the visiting teams a great tournament. They do not have countless hours to coordinate with every other TD in the state to make sure that we all run a proper number of "A" , "B", and even "C" level tournaments. It is wishful thinking at best and not really practical at all.
Thats why it is important that each team understand what their own level is and what they are trying to accomplish that season and pick the tournaments that they will attend accourdingly. You have to know where you fit in and what you are trying to do.
I have countless teams contact us about our tournaments and they ask what level of talent each of the teams enter have or do not have. I tell them as honestly as I can, based on what I know of each team and then they can decided. I don't want a "C" level team coming in and getting crushed and having a bad experience for example. In the same respect if there is a very good "A" level team coming in then I want to be sure that I have the type of competition that they are typically looking for. Its not always perfect but it does work for the most part if you are aware of most teams and what level they tend to be.
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Very well said Rich!
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Article 507 TEAM CLASSIFICATIONS OF CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY
G. Mandatory Classification
03. Restricted Classification Rule.
d. Girls? Class B Fast Pitch. Teams and players who participate in
Class A tournaments, or higher, that lead to a National Championship
Finals, shall not be eligible to participate in the Class B competition.
Girls? Class B teams must be made up of players who participate in the
same league.
EXCEPTION: A Girls? Class B Fast Pitch team that participates in a
higher classification National Qualifier must comply with Article 507
( B ) ( 02 ).
G. Mandatory Classification
03. Restricted Classification Rule.
d. Girls? Class B Fast Pitch. Teams and players who participate in
Class A tournaments, or higher, that lead to a National Championship
Finals, shall not be eligible to participate in the Class B competition.
Girls? Class B teams must be made up of players who participate in the
same league.
EXCEPTION: A Girls? Class B Fast Pitch team that participates in a
higher classification National Qualifier must comply with Article 507
( B ) ( 02 ).
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plenty of Grey areas or reasons to go your own way on this issue depending upon the team's situation as so many have expressed. Good discussions!!
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It is hard to say what class you should play.
From my own experience from coaching a team of girls from ONE high school for 3 years I can tell you what I was told.
We would be classed as a C team.
even with that being said last year we won the usssa b state, finished 5th in the slugger fest and finished 5th out of around 40 teams in the usfa world in panama.
In all of those events there were teams that relly could not compete and those who could not be beat.
sometimes I think it is A travel issue for some teams like ours
From my own experience from coaching a team of girls from ONE high school for 3 years I can tell you what I was told.
We would be classed as a C team.
even with that being said last year we won the usssa b state, finished 5th in the slugger fest and finished 5th out of around 40 teams in the usfa world in panama.
In all of those events there were teams that relly could not compete and those who could not be beat.
sometimes I think it is A travel issue for some teams like ours
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