16U Preseason Top Ten Poll

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@Manitou Dan:

You are absolutely right. I'm certainly not going to drop Valley Extreme Heverly, Classics Beckham, or Ohio Ice Black from the top five on my personal list and there are probably others that I am just too tired to think about now. Plus I know Lasers Silver was missing some key people at Dayton (as were most of us in 16u). And a single loss by any of the teams that made Sunday play at Dayton certainly should not be considered as disqualifying them from consideration. Then there is the McMadness team that won the ASA 14U Eastern Nationals last year, the two Stingrays teams that haven't played anywhere yet this year . . . it goes on and on and on. Buckeye Heat 95 would be very happy to squeeze somewhere into the top 10 and really not at all unhappy just to know that we can compete with whomever is on that list, assuming that anyone is interested in voting this week.

Speaking of which, I'd best be going over to start the "Make Your Case" thread for poll votes that are due on Tuesday night at 9:00 pm.

 

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The Buckeye Heat 94's beat the Doom 95 last year, and I will be the first to tell you don't use last years games or team play to judge teams this year. . They have loaded up on some good players this year, like most teams. Many teams have added players and upgraded, so untill you see a team play this year, I would not want to vote yet.. Plus we all know one game head to head doesn't really tell you much. Was it during pool play? Who was pitching ? Some teams have a dominate pitcher and she many not have been able to pitch that game or that team didn't want to pitch her during pool play. Doom 95 have one heck of a pitcher, if she is pitching they are going to be tough to beat. Plus when you play 5 games in one day, anyone can get beat if you don't have a deep bench in terms of pitching.

 

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@SB: the only problem with the "don't vote until you've seen them play" approach is that it is highly doubtful we will see in a summer all the teams that are worthy of consideration. If the 16u community decides not to participate in a poll, I think that would be refreshing. If we do start getting voters, however, I think all of us are experienced enough to know that the poll will inevitably be "challenged" in its methodology. I just like the poll because it provides general information on what's happening in that age group across the state. So maybe we should just change the name of the "Make Your Case" thread to "Updates on 16u Developments" and forget about the poll?

And in response to your edit starting with "Plus" to add more problems with basing too much on one tournament, I totally agree, as indicated in my response to Manitou Dan's post. But even after we get more tournament information, those problems are still going to exist. So should we just shut down the poll and replace it with an "Updates" thread?

 

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I guess I didn't express myself clearly. I have no issues with ranking teams and expressing who we think are the best. Not everyone puts out enough information like you did in your post to understand what happened unless they are at a tourney. My example would be if I had voted based on last year. I would have voted for the Buckeye Heat 94's over the Doom 95's based on the last time we played. That would not have been correct, now that I have seen them play this year. Same with the Buckeye Heat 95's. Ranking teams is nice to see, but it's really hard reading a score that X beat Y without knowing the facts. As stated above you do a good job of that, but many don't.

 

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The Buckeye Heat 94's beat the Doom 95 last year, and I will be the first to tell you don't use last years games or team play to judge teams this year. . They have loaded up on some good players this year, like most teams. Many teams have added players and upgraded, so untill you see a team play this year, I would not want to vote yet.. Plus we all know one game head to head doesn't really tell you much. Was it during pool play? Who was pitching ? Some teams have a dominate pitcher and she many not have been able to pitch that game or that team didn't want to pitch her during pool play. Doom 95 have one heck of a pitcher, if she is pitching they are going to be tough to beat. Plus when you play 5 games in one day, anyone can get beat if you don't have a deep bench in terms of pitching.

Doom 95 has TWO great pitchers....for the record...at Dayton Metro, they combined to only give up 1 run until they faced the Lasers Scarlett in the 2 championship games...

 

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I'm aware of that, since we played them in Indy last year. It was Doug's dd we faced in Indy, and she is a very good pitcher. If you want to go deep you must have more than once ace.

 

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VERY difficult to do a 16U poll these days.

There are some extremely talented teams that are going to beat up on each other all season long and anyone can win each game.

I'll give it a shot but please understand that this is just MY opinion from the games I have witnessed this and last season.

1. Lasers Scarlet - we know the deal here. Berth secured over a top field @ Dayton Metro. I know they replaced a few peices but still extremely strong.
2. TidalWaves - Heavy Keystone talent along with Medina and Elyria roster adds. Berth secured @ Roger Wells over strong field.
3. Doom - Great off season add ons from Ohio Wave and Doom 94. Extremely battle tested with also attending Orland Park as 14's
4. Ohio Sapphires - Talented group of girls that have traveled all over as 15's and now 16's. Good hitting club but pitching and defense seems to carry them.
5. HOH Explosion - A bit unknown from 2010 season but have obviously come on strong. Maturity appears to be their greatest asset along with possibly the best catcher in the state. Steal cautiously on this one. Split with #4 Sapphires at Roger Wells so this ranking could be higher in the long run.
6. MC Madness Black - Strong finish to the 2010 season by winning the 14U Eastern Nationals and securing their ASA 2011 berth. Fast growing organization and Black's hurler will compete with the best. We should learn more about them in the coming weeks @ Lasers and ASA State
7. Buckeye Heat 95 - I'd give this club the nod on being the top 15U team in the state. Strong hitting club with proven pitchers will not allow the 95' in their name to sneak up on the verterans.
8. Ohio Ice Black - Veteran club with players from Hoover and Copley. Catcher will not be pitch ran for as she is probably the fastest player on the field. Be aware of the first baseman's power and Russo's slick movement.
9. Maddogs - Tough hitting club that can be in any ball game. No lead is secure against them but I've also seen teams come from behind on them as well. Slight weak link may be in the circle.
10. Ohio Classics - This club baffles me a bit. They have all the talent needed to field one of the best clubs but going 0-2 @ Roger Wells is unacceptable. I'm sure they'll fix the issues in time to make a run.

Yes, there are more than just 10 top teams but I can only speak to the ones I have seen personally. DO NOT KILL THE MESSENGER.

 

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won't kill the messenger but will argue a bit (me argue ??) --Doom or Doom95 is still mainly a 95 team, only a couple 94's. So IMO I'd give them the title of best 95 team, but BH95 has been a great roll and those girls sure can play the game . Doom has a W over them this season.
Also don't see the tidalwaves being above the Doom in that 2 spot. but hey whats one spot -- MD

 

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Hey Run26:

No killing of the messenger here. Your list makes a lot of sense to me, though that 15U thing is subject to a lot of claims by a lot of the younger teams, and as Dan points out, not the least of them is Doom 95, to whom we lost rather handily at Dayton Metro. (Or maybe Doug's team is no longer a completely 95 or younger team, I'm not sure).

BUT if you are a member of a 16U coaching staff or otherwise think you should be voting in the weekly poll you need to send me the list via PM, with an identification of your team affiliation or other reasons why you should be included as a voter. I am not going to go looking for posts on OFC because I likely would miss some. Deadline for vote is Tuesday at 9:00 pm. Results will be posted either Tuesday evenings or Wednesday mornings.

Also, since you do seem to have such good factual information on what is happening in the 16U ranks, I'd encourage you to post something like your above post in the "16U Developments" thread that I am creating each week. (This Preseason Poll thread was created even before the Dayton Metro tournament). This week's thread is at http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=36747
If viewers don't have their access set up to show new posts, they can always find these Developments threads under the Team Polls category.

 

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Just my two cents, we have played 5 of the above. Some last year. Beat the Doom 95 and Tidalwave last year. Have seen both play this year. From the Buckeye Heat 94's it would be a close game if they play each other. Laser Scarlet gets my top choice and those two would be next. We are proud of the 94 Buckeye Heat girls, since we had to have a player step up and catch saturday that has never played catcher before. Both of our catchers had college entrance tests.

 

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Run26,

I think you have a GREAT handle on things here initially in the early summer season, based on what I have seen personally, I agree almost to the "t" with what you posted. You can always debate whether a certain team is #5 or #7 (just an example, etc), and this will ebb & flow over the summer, as teams get hot & cold. And sometimes we all leave the "mojo" in the car, or at home that day. And sometimes flairs drop in while rockets are just hit right at people. Oh, and sometimes BLUE misses the call mad, or squeezes your "finesse" pitcher against the WRONG team, lol ...

I was very impressed with the level of ball that I saw at Shreve this weekend, and that is without 2+ of the top teams (um, theoretically) being there. Success this year, if you want to be at the top of the hill will be about pitching depth, and staying out of the shark tank (aka the Loser Bracket) ..... which is why I am so impressed with Explosion, the way they battled back.

A few minor tweaks, even though we (Sappires) split with them I would move Explosion up a spot, and say that a top 3 of Lasers, Doom, Tidalwaves may be just a hair above the rest (so far), with Explosion knocking on the door of that group (very impressive group). I think the next 5-7 teams are extremely competitive. I would also list the Maddogs as a sleeper, great hitting, and a CFer that should be in jail for theft against us in the alleys last Friday. Watch the Outlaws, as well, young team, well coached, good pitching, can bash the ball.

 

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After this next weekend this list might firm up or change some. Since some of the above face off saturday.

 

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VERY difficult to do a 16U poll these days.

There are some extremely talented teams that are going to beat up on each other all season long and anyone can win each game.

I'll give it a shot but please understand that this is just MY opinion from the games I have witnessed this and last season.

1. Lasers Scarlet - we know the deal here. Berth secured over a top field @ Dayton Metro. I know they replaced a few peices but still extremely strong.
2. TidalWaves - Heavy Keystone talent along with Medina and Elyria roster adds. Berth secured @ Roger Wells over strong field.
3. Doom - Great off season add ons from Ohio Wave and Doom 94. Extremely battle tested with also attending Orland Park as 14's
4. Ohio Sapphires - Talented group of girls that have traveled all over as 15's and now 16's. Good hitting club but pitching and defense seems to carry them.
5. HOH Explosion - A bit unknown from 2010 season but have obviously come on strong. Maturity appears to be their greatest asset along with possibly the best catcher in the state. Steal cautiously on this one. Split with #4 Sapphires at Roger Wells so this ranking could be higher in the long run.
6. MC Madness Black - Strong finish to the 2010 season by winning the 14U Eastern Nationals and securing their ASA 2011 berth. Fast growing organization and Black's hurler will compete with the best. We should learn more about them in the coming weeks @ Lasers and ASA State
7. Buckeye Heat 95 - I'd give this club the nod on being the top 15U team in the state. Strong hitting club with proven pitchers will not allow the 95' in their name to sneak up on the verterans.
8. Ohio Ice Black - Veteran club with players from Hoover and Copley. Catcher will not be pitch ran for as she is probably the fastest player on the field. Be aware of the first baseman's power and Russo's slick movement.
9. Maddogs - Tough hitting club that can be in any ball game. No lead is secure against them but I've also seen teams come from behind on them as well. Slight weak link may be in the circle.
10. Ohio Classics - This club baffles me a bit. They have all the talent needed to field one of the best clubs but going 0-2 @ Roger Wells is unacceptable. I'm sure they'll fix the issues in time to make a run.

Yes, there are more than just 10 top teams but I can only speak to the ones I have seen personally. DO NOT KILL THE MESSENGER.

Madness Black is a all 95 team as well.

 

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After this next weekend this list might firm up or change some. Since some of the above face off saturday.

Yeah, I would imagine that list to re-shuffle weekly, at least a little? Plus a few other teams that jump into that mix a little also.

 

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This is how i would vote

1 Laser Scarlet

2 Doom

3 Tidal waves

4 HOO Explosion

5 Akron Sapphires

6 Ice Black

7 Ohio Outlaws

8 Heat 95

9 Heat 94

10 Ohio Classics